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Low-Profile Bracket for Orion 6x30 RACI Finder?

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#1 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:23 AM

I like the Orion 6x30 RACI finders, but I don't like their bracket.  The bracket is too tall.  When I have it on a refractor or Cat, I need to rise from my chair or even stand up to look through a 6x30 RACI in the bracket.  Very inefficient.  I shouldn't have to do that for a small finder. 

 

Maybe originally they designed the tall bracket for 6x30 straight-through finders.  If a straight-through finder is too close to the OTA, you might not have room to place your head to look through them.  But then again many red-dot finders have low-profile brackets.  :shrug:

 

The bottom line is:  The 6x30 brackets are just too tall.

 

Does anyone know of a shorter, low-profile bracket that will fit the Orion 6x30 RACI finders?  I'm looking for one that will go into the standard Vixen/Synta-style finder shoes.

 

Here is the finder I'm talking about, with its too tall bracket:  https://www.telescop...nder/p/7211.uts

 

Here is a typical, standard Vixen/Synta-style shoe for the bracket:  https://www.telescop...tail base #7214

 

Thanks,

Mike

 

P.S.:  I don't want to cut the tall bracket and patch it together to make a shorter one.


Edited by Sarkikos, 20 September 2019 - 11:32 AM.


#2 junomike

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:42 AM

See Here!

 

Looks like the Solomark (linked) isn't available but AgenaAstro has the same thing



#3 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:50 AM

See Here!

 

Looks like the Solomark (linked) isn't available but AgenaAstro has the same thing

I saw that thread, but also saw that the Topic Starter was asking for a low-profile bracket specifically for Tele Vue refractors.  Would the refractors he is concerned about use a standard Vixen/Synta-style shoe?  I don't know.

 

Mike



#4 junomike

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:54 AM

I believe he removed the standard Vixen shoe/foot and attached the Televue shoe/foot for his particular Base.

The standard base should work for you (nothing's guaranteed however...)


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#5 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 11:54 AM

The height of the Agena 6-Point Laser Pointer Finder is 84mm (3.3").  Is this substantially shorter than the Orion bracket?  I don't have an Orion bracket available as I type this, but that does seem shorter.

 

Mike



#6 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:04 PM

This sentence from the other thread is what steered me away from the Solomark bracket:

 

The finder bracket dovetail is noticeably smaller than the TV finder shoe, but the dual thumb screws on the TV shoe do a good job holding the bracket securely –I do not recommend this bracket for Vixen/Synta scopes that use only one thumb screw on the finder shoe to hold the bracket, it would be too lose!

[bold italics mine]

 

Now, if the bracket at Agena Astro is substantially shorter than the Orion bracket, and fits well in a Synta shoe, then that's what I'm looking for.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 20 September 2019 - 12:05 PM.


#7 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 12:09 PM

Here is an answer to a question about the Agena bracket:

 

You can use a slightly larger laser than specified if you replace the screws on the bracket. The included screws have a 3mm length of delrin tips at the end (hence the 30mm - 2x3mm = 24mm maximum specified laser diameter in our specs). Using the included screws with a laser larger than 24mm will not hold it securely.

 

So if I buy this bracket for a 6x30 finder, will I need to replace the screws in order to have a secure fit?

 

Mike



#8 Sarkikos

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Posted 20 September 2019 - 01:31 PM

Also, read this disclaimer from the product description for the Agena bracket:

 

Note that the width of the foot on this bracket is smaller than the opening on most Vixen/Synta-style bases (see specifications below for measurements). As a result, the existing locking screw on your base will probably not be long enough to reach this item and lock it in place. This issue can easily be resolved by inserting a shim or using a longer locking thumbscrew.

 

Has anyone bought this Agena bracket and had it work well out of the box in a Vixen/Synta-style base on their telescope?  I'm not going to rig up a shim every time I use this bracket.  Would a longer thumbscrew really be sufficient?  shrug.gif

 

I'm reluctant to buy this.  Not much of a risk at $35, but still ... I'm already full up with accessories I've bought on a whim only to find they weren't really what I needed.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 21 September 2019 - 09:48 AM.


#9 Sarkikos

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 09:44 AM

Why does Agena Astro - or any other vendor - sell a finder bracket advertised for Vixen/Synta-style bases, if the bracket is actually too narrow for Vixen/Synta-style bases and will be too loose in them? 

 

And why did the manufacturer make the brackets too narrow in the first place?

 

This does not make any sense.

 

Mike



#10 Sarkikos

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 09:46 AM

So … does anyone know of a low-profile finder bracket that will fit the Orion 6x30 RACI and - actually in fact and in practice - fit a Vixen/Synta-style finder base?

 

If there is, I haven't heard about it yet.

 

Still looking … watching.gif 

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 21 September 2019 - 09:50 AM.


#11 Agena AstroProducts

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 11:36 AM

>>Why does Agena Astro - or any other vendor - sell a finder bracket advertised for Vixen/Synta-style bases,

 

The Synta/Vixen V-style is a design-style standard, if we can call it that. Unfortunately, dimensions are not part of the "standard." That is why even the regular or "universal" bases can vary in dimension by several mm. We sell 5 or 6 variants of these finder bases, all from different suppliers, and no two match exactly!

 

It is not uncommon to find similar problems even with the larger Vixen dovetails/rails for telescopes. Note that it's the same design "standard" but again is not dimensionally standardized.

 

>>And why did the manufacturer make the brackets too narrow in the first place?

 

Because this bracket was made for another industry and not for astronomy. It just happens to work for us (with some modifications, of course) so our industry has co-opted it. We, and most other sellers of this occasionally-purchased item, do not have the sales volume to go out and tell the manufacturer to make a large batch with larger dimensions just for astronomy.

 

So we completely understand that this item may not be perfect or for everyone, but we prefer to offer this rather than nothing at all. Despite the caveats it comes with, quite a few people do buy this bracket and find it useful/usable. Also, as mentioned in the item description, a longer thumbscrew can easily remedy the problem should the need arise.

 

Regards,
Manish

AgenaAstro.com


Edited by Agena AstroProducts, 21 September 2019 - 11:36 AM.

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#12 Sarkikos

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Posted 21 September 2019 - 04:10 PM

Yes, I understand what you mean.  And I've had problems in the past where some Vixen/Synta-style bases were too narrow for some finder brackets.  So the mismatch in dimensions can go both ways. 

 

I wish the Vixen/Synta-style were a standard set of dimensions instead of just a standard style. :shrug:

 

Well, at least Agena AstroProducts did have a disclaimer about possible size problems in the product description, so the buyer would not be blindsided when it doesn't exactly fit their equipment.  

 

Mike



#13 Sarkikos

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 09:22 AM

I have a laser bracket that looks identical to the Agena Astro and Solomark brackets, but the rings are too narrow.  They are only 30mm inner diameter.  A laser finder fits well in the rings, but the 6x30 finder is too wide.

The bracket's foot is too narrow to fit in the Synta bases (also called a "shoe") on my telescopes.  But I found a longer metal thumbscrew in my parts drawer that tightly secures the bracket.  

I also have a bag of about a dozen plastic screws that will work.  They are part TS23-12, M4-0.7 x 12mm, from Agena Astro.  

My next step will be to order the bracket from Agena Astro.

Mike



#14 Will_S

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 09:42 AM

I have a laser bracket that looks identical to the Agena Astro and Solomark brackets, but the rings are too narrow.  They are only 30mm inner diameter.  A laser finder fits well in the rings, but the 6x30 finder is too wide.

The bracket's foot is too narrow to fit in the Synta bases (also called a "shoe") on my telescopes.  But I found a longer metal thumbscrew in my parts drawer that tightly secures the bracket.  

I also have a bag of about a dozen plastic screws that will work.  They are part TS23-12, M4-0.7 x 12mm, from Agena Astro.  

My next step will be to order the bracket from Agena Astro.

Mike

You might want to re-read the specs before you place that order. From Agena's product description: "Inside bracket diameter is 30mm. It can be used with laser pointers (not included) up to 24mm (0.95") in diameter."



#15 Sarkikos

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Posted 22 September 2019 - 09:59 AM

You might want to re-read the specs before you place that order. From Agena's product description: "Inside bracket diameter is 30mm. It can be used with laser pointers (not included) up to 24mm (0.95") in diameter."

You're right.  Then why are people here saying the Agena bracket can fit a 6x30 finder?

 

So will it fit the 6x30 or not?  This makes no sense.

 

I don't want to order a finder bracket like the one I already have, which fits a laser but not a 6x30 finder.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 22 September 2019 - 10:09 AM.


#16 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 09:07 AM

I see several Solomark clone brackets on Amazon.  Their specs say, "Fits maximum dia. 38mm, minimum 5mm flashlight, compatible with different types of flashlight."  So the inner diameter of the rings are 38mm.  The Orion 6x30 RACI finder should fit these brackets.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 23 September 2019 - 09:10 AM.


#17 BSJ

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 10:55 AM

I see several Solomark clone brackets on Amazon.  Their specs say, "Fits maximum dia. 38mm, minimum 5mm flashlight, compatible with different types of flashlight."  So the inner diameter of the rings are 38mm.  The Orion 6x30 RACI finder should fit these brackets.

 

Mike

Are those brackets adjustable, like the Orion?



#18 Sarkikos

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Posted 23 September 2019 - 11:02 AM

These are the type of brackets with two rings, each ring having three thumbscrews.  

 

Here is the one I ordered a little while ago:  Acouto Adjustable Flashlight Finder Scope Bracket  https://www.amazon.c...=gateway&sr=8-1

 

It looks identical to one I already have, but with wider rings.  The one I have now has 30mm inner diameter rings.  This one I just ordered has 38mm inner diameter rings.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 23 September 2019 - 11:05 AM.


#19 Sarkikos

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Posted 03 October 2019 - 08:26 AM

The Acouto bracket arrived yesterday from China.  Looks good.  My only criticism is that two of the nylon tips had fallen out of the screws.  Luckily the tips were still in the package.  I glued them back on with super glue.  

 

The Orion 6x30 RACI fits in the rings.  The six screws for the rings are longer than they need to be, since the 6x30 takes up much of the diameter of the rings.  I have screws that are shorter from a bracket I bought months ago for a laser finder.  (The bracket is identical except for it has smaller rings than the Acouto.)  I'll use the shorter screws in the Acouto bracket.

 

Yes, the foot of the bracket is too narrow to be secured in any of my Synta-style bases.  I was able to find a stainless steel thumb screw in a parts drawer that is long enough to secure the bracket.  I only have one.  But I have a pack of plastic thumb screws the right size that I bought from Agena Astro a while back.  I'd rather have stainless steel ones.

 

Agena Astro has the thumb screws I need.  They are $7 for two.  https://agenaastro.c...screw-long.html  

 

I want to buy enough screws for all my telescopes which have Synta-style bases that I'd like to mount a 6x30 RACI on.  That would mean my smaller refractors, smaller Newts and my C90.  

 

I'll see if I can buy them locally.

 

I see no use for the tall bracket for the 6x30 RACI on any of my telescopes.  It's just too tall.

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 03 October 2019 - 08:30 AM.


#20 Sarkikos

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Posted 04 October 2019 - 09:52 AM

I could not find any thumb screws locally that would fit.  So I bought a supply from Agena Astro.  Here is the item:  GSO Replacement Thumb Screw, Metric M4-0.7, 13mm Thread Length for Astronomy Accessories (Pack of 2) https://agenaastro.c...screw-long.html

 

These thumb screws would be too short for the Baader Standard-Clamp (#2457000) that's the finder base I attached to my Ar102xs f/4.5 achro.  For this base I'm going to try some thumb screws from Scope Stuff:  M4-0.7 16mm or M4-07 25mm.   http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_scr1.htm   I'm ordering a pack of both just in case.  

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 04 October 2019 - 09:54 AM.


#21 Sarkikos

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 06:12 AM

It turns out the Agena Astro M4-07 13mm thumb screws are long enough for the Baader Standard-Clamp finder base.  I had a single M4-07 12mm (?) screw that was not long enough.  I guess that extra 1 mm made a difference.  :shrug:

 

Mike


Edited by Sarkikos, 10 October 2019 - 06:13 AM.



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