27 replies to this topic

[Wildetelescope]

Every so often, someone posts a topic in this forum that is some variation of " How does one of the original AP Starfires, before Roland started using SD glass,  perform compared to today's options?"  The standard answer from those of us who own them is usually that for visual use they are wonderful, for imaging with today's cameras modern triplets are going to have an edge.  I own two of them, and for the most part I would not argue with that answer. 

 

However, that does not mean you can't image with them or that the images taken with them are bad.  At the time they were marketed for astrophotography because of their superior color correction and relatively FAST focal ratio(for the time:-) compared to Achromat doublets.   Searching online for images taken with these scopes yields slim pickings.  So I thought I would start a thread where people who own or have owned these scopes hopefully would post any images they have taken with them. I think it would be especially cool to see scans of film images taken using these scopes.   I will start off with a few of my doodles.  I am not a dedicated imager by any stretch of imagination, but I occasionally like to pop a camera on the end of the scope and see what I can get.  All of these are short exposure,unguided images that have been stacked and processed as is, without an sort of image calibration(darks, flats etc..)  Drive by astro imaging as it were.

 

Moon Mosaic taken with a Mallincam SSIc and AP 127 mm F8 Starfire, circa 1989.  Oil spaced Triplet.

 

M13 Taken with a Mallincam SSIc camera and AP 127 mm F8 Starfire, circa 1989.  Oil spaced Triplet.

 

Ring Nebula Taken with a SSIc  camera and AP 127 mm F8 Starfire, circa 1989.  Oil spaced Triplet.

 

Orion. Taken with a Mallincam Universe camera and AP 127 mm F8 Starfire, circa 1989.  Oil spaced Triplet.

 

Io transit of Jupiter.  Taken with an ZWO 294 camera, 2.5x barlow and AP 152 mm F9 Starfire, circa 1989 Oil spaced triplet.

 

 

I enjoy doodling with my scopes and I am looking forward to seeing what others have done!  These scopes are a very interesting part of amateur Astronomy history, and really the prototypes of what are the astrographs of today. 

 

Cheers!

 

JMD

Edited by Wildetelescope, 21 September 2019 - 02:32 PM.

[gnowellsct]

Roland once commented that moving from my FS128 to one of his early 90s 5 inches would be a lateral transfer.

You can image with FS128s they're great scopes but ultimately less work to have apo triplet.

Greg N

[Wildetelescope]

Roland once commented that moving from my FS128 to one of his early 90s 5 inches would be a lateral transfer.

You can image with FS128s they're great scopes but ultimately less work to have apo triplet.

Greg N

This is certainly true.  However, there was a period of about 10 years when these scopes WERE the triplet "Apo".  I am just interested in seeing what folks were doing back then with photography and later with ccd imaging.  It is possible the answer is not much, which is fine.  My interest is more in terms of a historical record. Curious what is out there.  I would not surprise me if most of it was in film format.  The thread may go nowhere, but I figured I would try.  

 

Cheers!

 

JMD 

[bobhen]

I owned a 1989 pre ED AP 152 triplet, purchased new from AP in 1989. Although I never imaged with it, I never saw any color visually. The triplet design and long F9 FL no doubt helped.

 

I always thought that the late eighties early nineties AP refractors were better at imaging/photography (less color) than the Tak Fluorite doublets.

 

Somewhat subjective of course and with a lot of variables but compare the color around stars on your Orion Nebula image with this one taken with a Tak FS 128. HERE is a link to the image.

 

Bob

Edited by bobhen, 22 September 2019 - 06:28 AM.

[vahe]

The mid eighties AP 6" F8 was offered in two versions, one was for visual folks who preferred less visible color and another version for those who did film photography with this scope, I recall a comment by Roland that most 6" F8's were visual versions, very few photographic models were produced.

.

Vahe

[Scott99]

here's a photo from my old 1987 6" f/8 that went to Australia....."The exposure was 20 min and it was taken with a canon 20D"

 

 

Edited by Scott99, 22 September 2019 - 12:15 PM.

[Wildetelescope]

here's a photo from my old 1987 6" f/8 that went to Australia....."The exposure was 20 min and it was taken with a canon 20D"

 

 

Eta carina from Emu creek single shot low resolution.jpg

Thanks for Posting Scott!  Exactly what I was hoping for!  That is really nice!   Eta Carina is such a beautiful target.  That must have been interesting transporting such a large scope!!  

 

I owned a 1989 pre ED AP 152 triplet, purchased new from AP in 1989. Although I never imaged with it, I never saw any color visually. The triplet design and long F9 FL no doubt helped.

 

I always thought that the late eighties early nineties AP refractors were better at imaging/photography (less color) than the Tak Fluorite doublets.

 

Somewhat subjective of course and with a lot of variables but compare the color around stars on your Orion Nebula image with this one taken with a Tak FS 128. HERE is a link to the image.

 

Bob

Thanks Bob!  That is interesting.  I DO think I need to clarify that my image was taken with the Mallincam Universe, which in my observation is much more sensitive in the red portion of the spectrum.  My suspicion is that my Zwo 294 would create an image closer to what you show in the Tak, with respect to the color around the bright stars.  I think they are probably pretty close.  Even so, It is still a beautiful image, and captures the spirit of what I was going for, which is to document what scopes of this time were capable of.  

 

Cheers!  

 

JMD

Edited by Wildetelescope, 22 September 2019 - 08:50 PM.

[Jeff B]

Venus with a one-off 7" F15 Christen triplet.  Back in the day with good old K64.

 

Jeff

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[Jeff B]

The Moon with a 4" F10 "Standard Christen Triplet".  Not many of these were made.  Shot in the mid 80's with an early sample 600 ASA print film.  Rather quaint really as the grain softens things out and the Moon was rather far down on a warm summer evening.

 

Jeff

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[Wildetelescope]

Venus with a one-off 7" F15 Christen triplet.  Back in the day with good old K64.

 

Jeff

That is GREAT.  A fantastic image. Thanks for Sharing Jeff! 

 

JMD

[Wildetelescope]

The Moon with a 4" F10 "Standard Christen Triplet".  Not many of these were made.  Shot in the mid 80's with an early sample 600 ASA print film.  Rather quaint really as the grain softens things out and the Moon was rather far down on a warm summer evening.

 

Jeff

Thanks Jeff!  Very nice!  These images are exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see.   When you get down to it, MOST of those early scopes were more or less custom, even the "standard" offerings ( as is often the case with craftsmen).  The year to year evolution of glass type, spacing media,  mechanicals (lens cell, focuser, Tube color) is really quite rapid through the 80s. Was not really until the early 90's that you got the trademark AP style.  

 

Cheers!

 

JMD

[Wildetelescope]

Thanks to everyone who is posting images.  I am grateful that you are willing to indulge my curiosity!   It is my hope that such generosity will be rewarded with clear skies for all of you! :-)

 

Cheers!

 

JMD

[Chris Cook]

The Sun captured at the prime focus of a 10" f14 Christen tri-space back in 1985.  35mm Technical Pan.

 

[Wildetelescope]

 

Here is a recently reprocessed version of the m13 previously posted above.  Shows better what the scope was showing.  Original was taken in 2014.  I have improved a little with my skills since then.  Hope you enjoy it. 

 

 

Cheers! 

 

Jmd 

[staarc]

I bought my 5" f6 Christen triplet back in 1986 or so and used it only for visual work up until just a few years ago. It was mounted on one of A-P's first 600E mounts, the one that had a tangent arm declination drive and was not GOTO. I had all the imaging gear from day one but could never get enthusiastic about manual guiding so didn't really do any imaging until I picked up a new Mach1GTO a few years ago. Soon after, I bought a cooled ZWO 1600MM camera and started experimenting.

 

This scope is supposed to be the least well-corrected of the various Astro-Physics models. Maybe it is but I think it still puts up a pretty good image. There is some blue haloing around brighter stars, especially when using a relatively blue-violet sensitive CMOS camera like the 1600MM, but this can be processed out if it seems necessary. I also use Astronomik's Deep Sky filters, which have a slightly more restrictive blue-cutoff than others, to control it. Otherwise, the resolution and contrast are great, which is to be expected from an exceptionally well-figured lens. In any case, I'm having more fun than ever with it!

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

Deerlick Group - straight RGB - blue haloing reduced in post-processing (Stephan's Quintet in upper right)

 

 

M27 - RGB plus Ha and O3 - no reduction of haloing

[Phillip Creed]

I'm just getting started in astrophotography, and I learned the ropes on a 6" f/8 AP triplet our club has in their observatory.  I haven't used any filters (yet), but I recently purchased a Lumicon Minus Violet filter and will give it the ol' college try.

Photo #1--M81

Clear Skies,

Phil

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[Phillip Creed]

Photo #2--NGC 2903

Clear Skies,

Phil

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[Phillip Creed]

Photo #3--M42

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[jerry10137]

Here is an interesting little read you may enjoy

 

https://www.cloudyni...-sw-150-esprit/

[Wildetelescope]

Thanks for posting the wonderful images!

 

jmd

[Wildetelescope]

Here is an interesting little read you may enjoy

 

https://www.cloudyni...-sw-150-esprit/

Yes the more modern scopes are quite impressive in their performance.  All the images posted here are from pre ED glass scopes, and represent a neat snapshot in time of the evolution of modern refractor.  

 

Cheers! 

 

Jmd

[jerry10137]

Oh my apologies .  I misread that.  Thought you were looking for anything from good ol' AP

[daquad]

Taken with my no-longer owned 6" f/9 Starfire oiled triplet(ca 1991).  Fuji 200 print film.  This is not the original, but a photo of the glossy 8X10 print I had made.  Exposure was ~45 minutes with the 0.75 reducer, so about f/6.  Field was not quite large enough to capture M110 at top of photo.

 

Edited by daquad, 16 October 2019 - 01:56 PM.

[Wildetelescope]

Oh my apologies . I misread that. Thought you were looking for anything from good ol' AP

No worries!! That was a good thread😃

Jmd

[Wildetelescope]

Oh my apologies . I misread that. Thought you were looking for anything from good ol' AP

No worries!! That was a good thread😃

Jmd