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Lots on Unitron lately

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#76 starman876

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 04:59 PM

the mounts are aluminum and I think the battery acid is long worn out by now.   All you got left is dust and corrosion from the battery acid on the aliminum.    Baking soda takes care of the battery acid.  However, you need the vinigar to clean the corresion from the aluminum. 


Edited by starman876, 04 September 2020 - 05:02 PM.


#77 apfever

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 05:09 PM

Last entry till more input. I should add that I have hit this with every lube and penetrant over the months, including the proverbial acetone/transmission fluid combo.  I've used hypodermics, hoses, straws and more to get stuff as far inside as it can be initiated. It's been flooded and soaked on and off for months. 

My picture shows some acetone/tranny from back in January.

The other picture is what will never be found inside this one.

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#78 apfever

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 05:17 PM

the mounts are aluminum and I think the battery acid is long worn out by now.   All you got left is dust and corrosion from the battery acid on the aliminum.    Baking soda takes care of the battery acid.  However, you need the vinigar to clean the corresion from the aluminum. 

OK, I'm game. 

How strong a solution starting with Heinz kitchen vinegar?

How long should it soak?  It will have to be a long time - days I would think to work into the threads

What will it do to the rest of the mount and finish?

 

Any sour comments on the vinegar?



#79 levidog2

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 05:38 PM

Congratulations!  Nice looking rig, I have always loved the style of Unitron scopes. 

 

Clear Skies, Frank



#80 RichA

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 06:07 PM

have  you tried soaking it in vinigar?

Vinegar is a good corrosion eradicator.  Unlike things like Coke.  For those who don't know;  regular vinegar is 5% acetic acid, pickling vinegar is 7% and cleaning vinegar (been showing up in stores since Covid came along, for some reason) is 10%.  If you go to a store that sells film photographic gear, you can buy glacial acetic acid concentrate and mix whatever strength you want.  Good thing about vinegar, the smell isn't repellent to most people (unlike say 5% dilute hydrochloric acid which  functions similarly) and it goes away as soon as the item you use it on is rinsed with water.



#81 apfever

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 08:35 PM

OK FOLKS, OK.  So what is the prognostication for the FINISH OR METAL if  the main part of the mount gets acid rain? For several days. 

 

I have taken serious considerations to spare the mount at the expense of the light. The light goes out first. It is not worth major damage to a very nice original finish.  No acid without input. Something "...which functions similarly..." to hydrochloric acid isn't happening without knowledgeable input.   Effective exposure to soaking will require a significant amount of the bottom to sit in solution, AND a lot of solution flooding the interior through the main altitude bolt hole. 

 

For experience, I have personally cut and knocked out corrosion frozen pipe thread plugs of this size (iron). It is one way to leave the female threads intact and useable if they are still there at all. This may end up a smooth bore inside but a dedicated person could still make it work for a light. 



#82 ccwemyss

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 10:16 PM

Personally, I'd knock out what I could, and once there is a sense of the insides, then maybe apply some vinegar directly to the corrosion. I don't think it will damage the finish with light applications. Splashing stop bath, which is even stronger acetic acid, on things in the darkroom doesn't cause finish damage if cleaned up - only when allowed to sit for a long time. So I'd be reluctant to soak it for days, not even knowing if it will penetrate. 

 

Chip W. 



#83 starman876

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 10:23 PM

good luck.  Last time I had something stuck because of corrosion I attached a good solid piece of metal bar to it and then hit the end of the bar gently with a hammer until is started to come loose.   Sort of like a large impact wrench.  


Edited by starman876, 04 September 2020 - 10:23 PM.


#84 apfever

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Posted 04 September 2020 - 10:45 PM

good luck.  Last time I had something stuck because of corrosion I attached a good solid piece of metal bar to it and then hit the end of the bar gently with a hammer until is started to come loose.   Sort of like a large impact wrench.  

I already tried the impact method. I use that approach occasionally on other things. Keeping torque on the end of the bar, then hitting the bar closer to the object is best for shock therapy. The light never budged.  I'll knock the light out this weekend but check back here for any last minute comments first. Everything else is ready to start up.



#85 starman876

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 07:13 AM

I already tried the impact method. I use that approach occasionally on other things. Keeping torque on the end of the bar, then hitting the bar closer to the object is best for shock therapy. The light never budged.  I'll knock the light out this weekend but check back here for any last minute comments first. Everything else is ready to start up.

Do you have a hole saw the right size?  It would make things easier to break the rest out.   A drill press is a must for this method.  And then there is the replacment light if you want one.  



#86 CHASLX200

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 07:38 AM

Why can't it just be left as it is?  Not sure it would risk breaking something or just a lot of work for nothing.



#87 starman876

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 07:56 AM

Last entry till more input. I should add that I have hit this with every lube and penetrant over the months, including the proverbial acetone/transmission fluid combo.  I've used hypodermics, hoses, straws and more to get stuff as far inside as it can be initiated. It's been flooded and soaked on and off for months. 

My picture shows some acetone/tranny from back in January.

The other picture is what will never be found inside this one.

as you can see by the threads on the light there are not many of them.  If you need dimension of the diameter of the threads I can measure one of the ones I have so you can use a hole saw just a bit smaller.   I can understand why you want to remove it.  Just is not right the way it is. 



#88 PawPaw

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 09:29 AM

Neil,

I ran into a similar issue on mine.  Luckily I was able to remove mine from the mount but the old batteries had left corrosion everywhere including above the threads of the light tray inside the mount.  That I was able to clean up.  However I could not remove the battery cannister without breaking the light metal.  Finally after several weeks of soaking water and  baking soda (multiple flushes and new soda) I was able to break the threads loose and unthread the cannister from the light tray itself.  There is another threaded metal plate on the back side of the light socket internally  that looks to be brass or copper.  It is flat and is made to unscrew but I have been unable to get it to budge.  I have tried for months and finally came to the conclusion to leave as is and modify the tray for a led light....should be simple. 

 

Back to your issue....I have taken some measurements for you and my idea is to drill through the light socket directly, using the bulb as center point,  into the batter container......that should allow you to remove the batteries.   I am sure the battery container itself is gone.  Once you get the hole drilled you should be able to remove the old batteries and flush out the corrosion.  Bu my measurements on mine  the hole you drill should be no larger than 1 3/8 inch that is the width of the threads where the battery container threads into the light tray base.  The outside threads of the light try base that thread into the mount is 2 7/16 inch.  If you use a hole saw you should be able to JB weld the part your removed from the hole saw back into the light tray and rig up a led light that works better than the original.  I hope this helps.....I have added some pics of mine.

 

Good luck

 

Don

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Edited by PawPaw, 05 September 2020 - 09:36 AM.

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#89 apfever

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Posted 05 September 2020 - 11:46 AM

Do you have a hole saw the right size?  It would make things easier to break the rest out.   A drill press is a must for this method.  And then there is the replacment light if you want one.  

Pretty much have it all here, except I can't get to the milling machine behind the big scopes in the barn.  SO,  when it rains it pours and I have a couple coming to check out stuff astronomy wise. Not buying but I'm one of the 'destination' stops for them.  They are bringing a scope too. I'll drill out just the light hole. I have a full set of regular style but around 1 to 2 feet long , ok not all 1/64" but around 6 or so in the set.  Use the largest that will just fit through the actual bulb base socket.  The light would never come out either. It's had the same treatment but allows what looks like that welded unitized deposit.  I'll just break the bulb out. drill completely through whatever is in there, confirm batteries or not.  It'll be a nice pilot hole.  I'm thinking one of those metal stepper bits for more,  do it in the garage or outside with an air nozzle. Anything is possible it's a matter of When.....

I could drill and pin my torque board to the light inside the thread radius where it's thick,  angle in a bunch of drill bits then turn the bits around into the holes as pins,  wouldn't even need same size bits, use up the loose pile...it's a matter of When...

 

have to run....guests and scope


Edited by apfever, 05 September 2020 - 11:48 AM.

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#90 apfever

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 08:59 AM

Don't know why this idea never hit.  I'm going to put the mount in the holding board and double clamp the upper section that rotates for AZ adjustment (polar alignment).  I'll notch a board to make a wrench that grabs the flat sided top part. Another board will get a slotted hole drilled to go around the upper section where the ALT adjuster boss' are at.  I can inject trans fluid/acetone into the clamp bolt hole using some high pressure. I can also flood around the outside ring contact area.

 

What I NEED is a PICTURE of the assembly taken apart. I need to see what the upper and lower sections look like and how they mesh. I need to SEE how and where the parts mesh along the AZM rotation interface. I tried a search to no avail. 

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#91 apfever

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:19 AM

One board goes left, the other board goes right. This will be a lot of torque and can wiggle back and forth instead of having to unscrew in one direction only.  Having the lock bolt hole to inject lube is a major plus. Unlike the light, I have some faith in this coming apart. Once separated, I'll have a whole new insight to the light situation. 

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#92 starman876

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 09:56 AM

they just fit into each other.   There is no magic.  Let me take a picture.

152 mount.JPG

 

152 mount 1.JPG


Edited by starman876, 09 September 2020 - 10:02 AM.

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#93 starman876

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 10:08 AM

the bottom picture shows the threads where the light screws into.  The amount of threads on the light is only about 1/4" of threads.  However, it has a large circumference so a lot of holding power.   I think you have been holding the wrong part trying to get it apart.  You should be holding on to the top part the rest of the mount attaches to.   I doubt you could put enough torque on the thumb screw that holds the base to the upper section to stop it from turning in the base when you try to loosen the light from the threaded section.  


Edited by starman876, 09 September 2020 - 11:31 AM.


#94 apfever

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Posted 09 September 2020 - 06:35 PM

OH That's bad news.  But it is what I needed to know.  

 

The thumb screw has been removed during all my attempts so that's not an issue.  Nothing rotated when I tried the last torque which broke the cover tabs off the light. That took a lot of torque and the upper section never rotated in the base. This means the upper section and base are frozen in a major way, just like the light is in the upper section.  I was hoping the light screwed into the base, and the upper section was totally independent.  This puts me back to cutting the light out, but the upper and lower sections are apparently very frozen as well.  Removing the light will let me get better access to putting lube in from the bottom.  It's nice to see that groove for the thumb screw. That means lube will have a channel to go completely around the upper cylinder part.  Hmmm....

 

It will be easier to work on the light with the unit assembled. Once the light is knocked out, I can get lube around the bottom seam and even use the press to try pushing out the center section.  



#95 Kasmos

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 04:46 PM

How about drilling one or two small holes thru the red portion of the light to put penetrating oil into the interior? 

 

IIRC, Liquidwrench was rated the best by a Youtuber who compared several oils and he included a transmission oil/acetone mix.



#96 starman876

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Posted 10 September 2020 - 05:00 PM

How about drilling one or two small holes thru the red portion of the light to put penetrating oil into the interior? 

 

IIRC, Liquidwrench was rated the best by a Youtuber who compared several oils and he included a transmission oil/acetone mix.

cherry bombs would make quick work of that problem.



#97 apfever

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 05:19 PM

.

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#98 apfever

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 05:20 PM

These parts are still a tight fit after clean up and lube. They will get more attention before final assembly.

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Edited by apfever, 26 September 2020 - 06:02 PM.


#99 apfever

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 05:22 PM

Had to cut through the skirt flange on the light, thus nicks in the bottom of the hub.

Had to cut through the light threads, thus nicks inside the center section.

The marks are trivial and will get some acrylic paint pen touch up to disappear. 

The center threads are fine to accept another light....should a future owner wish to do so.

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Edited by apfever, 26 September 2020 - 06:04 PM.


#100 apfever

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 05:29 PM

The culprits.  Any guess as to how long these were rode hard and put away wet?

 

These would never have unscrewed with conventional methods. The bottom cap of the battery tube was corroded through. The light threads were completely disintegrated and bound with the hub center in sections. The hub center survived and another light can be installed. I had to trace the threads with a tranny pick and screwdriver.  

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Edited by apfever, 26 September 2020 - 05:36 PM.



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