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Takahashi Starbase 80 First Impressions

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#26 Ohmless

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 03:12 AM

Tagging the thread in anticipation of a deeper review.



#27 SandyHouTex

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 09:26 AM

Well I haven't got to use it as much as I would like due to the weather and mosquitos, but it really is an excellent telescope, mount, and set of eyepieces.  I liked the 2 Orthos that come with it so much, that I bought all of the rest of them.  They all work great in the f/10 Starbase.

 

As I said earlier, the scope, even though it's an achromat, has about the same chromaticism as my short f/6.25 EON 80mm, which has FPL-53 and is a doublet, and that's not much.  I see a little bit of violet around Jupiter, nothing around Saturn, and nothing around bright stars until I get to Sirius.  Maybe a slight bit on Vega, but I need to try really hard to see it.  Double stars appropriate for the aperture are split easily.  I don't really see anything around the moon either, but I've only got to view once or twice.  I haven't yet been able to view Venus, but there is probably a little color around it as well, but everything else, nothing.

 

I think this scope is a real gem.


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#28 lylver

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 05:37 AM

Hello, we don't have access to Starbase 80 in Europe but I get a second hand Scopetech (there is a topic about it).

The objective lens of this 80/1000 is made by the same manufacturer : Kubota Optical.

I sent this one for an interferometry test after having unscrewed the lens. I hope for reasonable results.

Meanwhile I see two or three nice features.

Lens cell is ... simple. Aluminium barrel, anodized and painted outside. The retaining ring is not in aluminium but I guess is the same mater for camera : looks like Delrin, mat, very precise and soft to hold the glass with minimal pressure.

Glasses are air-spaced with metal spacers, 1/2mm I guess (classic small 1/2000 fl FH air-spaced), this one are silver plated : they look big. We will see if it impact much the wave front.

IMG_20191125_100352c.jpg

Tube is at optimal dimension, thin, good behaviour : vibration is well damped, very small flexion. Inside, the flocking is complete and there are baffles in the 80/1000 (79.5cm long tube)

Flash test is done in the last picture : light is diminished when going inside the tube. The gray rectangle is a velvet glued over the srew position to cancel the specular reflexion I think.

Many surprising details in the tube construction.

The biggest surprise is the weight : it may be interpretated as a toy but this is an idea that diminish vibrations if the tube is rigid enough. Here between 1.5mm and 2mm thick.

IMG_20191125_093902c.jpg  IMG_20191125_101721c.jpg


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#29 SandyHouTex

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 11:45 AM

Hello, we don't have access to Starbase 80 in Europe but I get a second hand Scopetech (there is a topic about it).

The objective lens of this 80/1000 is made by the same manufacturer : Kubota Optical.

I sent this one for an interferometry test after having unscrewed the lens. I hope for reasonable results.

Meanwhile I see two or three nice features.

Lens cell is ... simple. Aluminium barrel, anodized and painted outside. The retaining ring is not in aluminium but I guess is the same mater for camera : looks like Delrin, mat, very precise and soft to hold the glass with minimal pressure.

Glasses are air-spaced with metal spacers, 1/2mm I guess (classic small 1/2000 fl FH air-spaced), this one are silver plated : they look big. We will see if it impact much the wave front.

attachicon.gif IMG_20191125_100352c.jpg

Tube is at optimal dimension, thin, good behaviour : vibration is well damped, very small flexion. Inside, the flocking is complete and there are baffles in the 80/1000 (79.5cm long tube)

Flash test is done in the last picture : light is diminished when going inside the tube. The gray rectangle is a velvet glued over the srew position to cancel the specular reflexion I think.

Many surprising details in the tube construction.

The biggest surprise is the weight : it may be interpretated as a toy but this is an idea that diminish vibrations if the tube is rigid enough. Here between 1.5mm and 2mm thick.

attachicon.gif IMG_20191125_093902c.jpg attachicon.gif IMG_20191125_101721c.jpg

First off, I would like to know what makes you think the objective is made in China by Kubato?
 

And second, the objective on my Starbase is 80mm diameter with an 800 mm focal length, not 1000mm.



#30 edif300

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:20 PM

Kubota Optical Corporation
Hanamaki-City, Iwate-Prefecture

Japan.
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#31 Tamiji Homma

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:37 PM

Kubota Optical Corporation
Hanamaki-City, Iwate-Prefecture

Japan.

 

Kubota Optical has interesting stuff.

 

http://www.rnac.ne.jp/~uccc/makiba.htm

 

They made 150mm f/66.7, focal length 10,000mm singlet refractor :)

 

Tammy


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#32 edif300

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 12:49 PM

Wow !! wub.png



#33 lylver

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 01:36 PM

First off, I would like to know what makes you think the objective is made in China by Kubato?
 

And second, the objective on my Starbase is 80mm diameter with an 800 mm focal length, not 1000mm.

gné ?!

 

I wrote this is Kubota not Kubato, and this is a famous old optic manufacturer in Japan since long. This is written in Takahashi reseller site in Japan, they have an agreement.

I never said this is the Starbase version !

 

Many optical stuff are made in Hanamaki and also they are not far from Hikari Glass factory.

Daiichi Optical Co., Ltd. at Hanamaki makes some accessories. (KD logo)

 

Visit some japanese sites... http://www.mmjp.or.j...ata/hajibou.htm

and make some search...

Scopetech is considered high end achromat now. Takahashi wanted to add the 80/800 to their brand as an "initiation refractor.".

Takahashi doesn't make all by themselves but they always use high end only manufacturer or make specific order.

So read precisely what I wrote and make your opinion by yourself.

I wrote a long topic on a french site about this and I am in contact with a japanese reseller.

Or take a screwdriver and see by yourself : lens cell centering is well matched to the tube : no risks

 

The Starbase project is a revival of antique high end achromat, Takahashi do this because they are fond of what they did since few years, Japan people apreciate those well finished stuff.

KD (Daiichi-Kogaku/Kubota used to make refractor and worked for also Celestron that chosed them times ago)

So Takahashi put his colors on this specific stuff to promote it and fight chinese stuff invasion.

cache_28958104.jpg?t=1408716945 939365-16.jpg

 

-------------------------------

 

And to make everyone sure, read the last line from http://www.mmjp.or.j.../data/sb80.htm :

SB80e.JPG

 

-------------------------------

Yop another rebranding by Subaru

maxresdefault.jpg.fdf68113e2ba675919024c

 

Convinced ?

 

-------------

Hélicoïdal (very precise 1/100th mm jitter) able to focus under 1/10th mm precision (moving ratio is about 1 on 7 finger move). Weight 432g, made with multiple material : steel, forged aluminium alliage, brass, plastic..

One baffle inside (the 3rd) : limits to ~28mm ie 1"1/4 field stop and APS-C camera format size. Tube is M36.4 classic internal thread that can be fitted to T2 adapter.

IMG_20191129_140558.jpg  IMG_20191129_140626.jpg


Edited by lylver, 29 November 2019 - 10:44 AM.

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#34 SandyHouTex

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 03:16 PM

Kubota Optical has interesting stuff.

 

http://www.rnac.ne.jp/~uccc/makiba.htm

 

They made 150mm f/66.7, focal length 10,000mm singlet refractor smile.gif

 

Tammy

I stand corrected on the country of manufacture.  My apologies.



#35 SandyHouTex

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 03:29 PM

gné ?!

 

I wrote this is Kubota not Kubato, and this is a famous old optic manufacturer in Japan since long. This is written in Takahashi reseller site in Japan, they have an agreement.

I never said this is the Starbase version !

 

Many optical stuff are made in Hanamaki and also they are not far from Hikari Glass factory.

Daiichi Optical Co., Ltd. at Hanamaki makes some accessories. (KD logo)

 

Visit some japanese sites... http://www.mmjp.or.j...ata/hajibou.htm

and make some search...

Scopetech is considered high end achromat now. Takahashi wanted to add the 80/800 to their brand as an "initiation refractor.".

Takahashi doesn't make all by themselves but they always use high end only manufacturer or make specific order.

So read precisely what I wrote and make your opinion by yourself.

I wrote a long topic on a french site about this and I am in contact with a japanese reseller.

Or take a screwdriver and see by yourself : lens cell centering is well matched to the tube : no risks

 

The Starbase project is a revival of antique high end achromat, Takahashi do this because they are fond of what they did since few years, Japan people apreciate those well finished stuff.

KD (Daiichi-Kogaku/Kubota used to make refractor and worked for also Celestron that chosed them times ago)

So Takahashi put his colors on this specific stuff to promote it and fight chinese stuff invasion.

cache_28958104.jpg?t=1408716945 939365-16.jpg

 

-------------------------------

 

And to make everyone sure, read the last line from http://www.mmjp.or.j.../data/sb80.htm :

attachicon.gif SB80e.JPG

 

-------------------------------

Yop another rebranding by Subaru

maxresdefault.jpg.fdf68113e2ba675919024c

 

Convinced ?

 

-------------

Hélicoïdal (very precise 1/100th mm jitter) able to focus under 1/10th mm precision (moving ratio is about 1 on 7 finger move). Weight 432g, made with multiple material : steel, forged aluminium alliage, brass, plastic..

One baffle inside (the 3rd) : limits to ~28mm ie 1"1/4 field stop and APS-C camera format size. Tube is M36.4 classic internal thread that can be fitted to T2 adapter.

attachicon.gif IMG_20191129_140558.jpg attachicon.gif IMG_20191129_140626.jpg

Convinced of what?

 

You continue to say that Takahashi doesn’t make the Starbase 80.  I don’t disagree and never have.  Takahashi contracted with this company to make these scopes for them.  What that means is that they (Takahashi) specified how the scopes were to be made, things like focal length, objective diameter, etc., including the quality level by the way.  After the sale, Takahashi warrants them and will pay to fix them if anything is wrong from the factory, or goes wrong in use.

 

I bought this scope because it’s a nice size to pick up and use, it will show me a lot, it has a great price and, it’s backed by Takahashi.  Takahashi being an excellent and premium refractor telescope manufacturer.


Edited by SandyHouTex, 30 November 2019 - 10:27 AM.


#36 lylver

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 03:46 PM

So why do you make a global annoying quote of my posts (with pic) instead of simply asking the good question, this is not good for lisibility.



#37 edif300

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:22 PM

Convinced of what?

 

You continue to say that Takahashi doesn’t make the Starbase 80.  I don’t disagree and never have.  Takahashi contracted with this company to make these scopes for them.  What that means is that they (Takahashi) specified how the scopes were to made, things like focal length, objective diameter, etc., including the quality level by the way.  After the sale, Takahashi warrants them and will pay to fix them if anything is wrong from the factory, or goes wrong in use.

 

I bought this scope because it’s a nice size to pick up and use, it will show me a lot, it has a great price and, it’s backed by Takahashi.  Takahashi being an excellent and premium refractor telescope manufacturer.

Actually Starbase 80 is not a Takahashi product so I have my doubts that Takahashi specified them how make the starbase-80 or some parameter about its quality level. I never read this from the most authority source, Starbase. Can you provide some evidence about it?

 

Regarding about Takahashi warrants Starbase80, this is not true. I provided Starbase's mail about this in the other thread. So stand corrected. After from this first mail, I received a second mail from the friend in Starbase who kindly sent me in November 15, copy paste it here:

 

""""""

Regarding to this question, please see the attached file.

The source is here
https://www.cloudyni...have-one/page-5

Last time when you asked me, I answered that [If you buy from local dealer abroad, they offer the warranty.] but according to this Takahashi warrants. I will apologize and correct that.

 

Best Regards,

 

"""""""

 

 

 

I have nothing against the Starbase80. In fact I think that Starbase80 is a great scope.


Edited by edif300, 29 November 2019 - 04:51 PM.


#38 Kunama

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:49 PM

Convinced of what?

 

You continue to say that Takahashi doesn’t make the Starbase 80.  I don’t disagree and never have.  Takahashi contracted with this company to make these scopes for them.  What that means is that they (Takahashi) specified how the scopes were to made, things like focal length, objective diameter, etc., including the quality level by the way.  After the sale, Takahashi warrants them and will pay to fix them if anything is wrong from the factory, or goes wrong in use.

 

I bought this scope because it’s a nice size to pick up and use, it will show me a lot, it has a great price and, it’s backed by Takahashi.  Takahashi being an excellent and premium refractor telescope manufacturer.

I still don't understand why it is so important for some to think of the Starbase80 as being a Takahashi, which it clearly is not.  

 

It is a shame that Kubota/Scopetech misses out on the credit for a decent achromat at a decent price.... My choice would be the Scopetech 80/1200.


Edited by Kunama, 29 November 2019 - 06:22 PM.

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#39 lylver

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 04:57 PM

I still don't understand why it is so important for some to think of the Starbase80 as being a Takahashi, which it clearly is not. 

I aggree, what is the problem with that ? Responsability ?

I am experienced in my work now, I give orders and advices and expertises every day.

When I say : "This guy works good for me, I am responsible of what he does"

This is trust, I take my money part, and I pay if any damage. This is how commerce work.

 

Those people at work in Hanamaki is the best emotion I had, they are calm, concentrated on work, autonomous on what they do. They are artisan, not mindless worker. Every part I dismounted for any reason gave me a surprise of their skill. Creative force inside inanimated object.



#40 starmason

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 03:26 PM

I enjoyed your analysis of that beautiful blue Subaru Merope European equivalent of our Starbase 80 achromat.  It looks to be a fine telescope also.

 

I have been enjoying my SB80 for over a month now-whenever the weather permits-on the south shore of Long Island, NY.  

 

I posted pics, on one of the other Starbase Equipment Discussions, of the two finders I use at times.  One a red dot unit finder on a plastic mount including a two hole base which fits nicely over the threaded studs on the focuser.  The other a well constructed lightweight painted non-metallic 6x30mm finder scope with mount/base offered by Surplus Shed for only around $20.00!  They both work great on the SB80. 

 

As stated previously, that peep sight finder system is difficult to use (at best), so a unit or optical glass finder is necessary for locating stellar objects at night.   Kind of a waste of effort by that high quality Japanese shop to install that nearly useless primitive system on this nicely designed and built retro refractor.  Why not just include that nice retro 30mm finder and charge another 25 dollars for the complete scope?

Seemed like a bit of a rip-off to charge extra for a necessary item like a finder on the SB80.  I guess since it is painted a similar "tak" green color they thought they could "ala carte" the finder.  A shame really as their eyepieces are first rate and included with this telescope system.  Why not the "1980's vintage" design finder and stalk?  

 

BTW I also own a beautiful Zeiss Telementor 2 and I was fortunate to purchase the excellent Zeiss optical finder scope for it as a similar "peep site" is mounted on the T2 also as standard equipment for school kid use in what used to be the GDR (or East Germany as it was known).  Guess that peep system was necessary to prevent breakage by the students.....?                 (my peep sight pet peeve is done now).  

 

I agree with all of the reviews that the optics are first rate for and F10 80mm achromatic refractor!   Eyepieces are very good.  Mirror diagonal is good but not as good as my Baader amici prism diagonal.....or my vintage orion "tube design" mirror diagonal.  I will use the system as-is during outreach events - which is why I purchased it anyway.  I was looking for a similar scope to my Celestron F11 80mm by Vixen, who's optics were excellent, but I sold it to a Club member who was looking for an excellent first refractor system.....miss that beautiful scope on that Gem mount system.  No achromat out there today in that aperture class as good as that 1980 system - for public outreach and splitting doubles, IMHO.

 

This SB80 is very close, though, and it looks a lot prettier in white and light green trim. 

 

Clear skies,

George, NY


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#41 SandyHouTex

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 08:25 PM

I enjoyed your analysis of that beautiful blue Subaru Merope European equivalent of our Starbase 80 achromat.  It looks to be a fine telescope also.

 

I have been enjoying my SB80 for over a month now-whenever the weather permits-on the south shore of Long Island, NY.  

 

I posted pics, on one of the other Starbase Equipment Discussions, of the two finders I use at times.  One a red dot unit finder on a plastic mount including a two hole base which fits nicely over the threaded studs on the focuser.  The other a well constructed lightweight painted non-metallic 6x30mm finder scope with mount/base offered by Surplus Shed for only around $20.00!  They both work great on the SB80. 

 

As stated previously, that peep sight finder system is difficult to use (at best), so a unit or optical glass finder is necessary for locating stellar objects at night.   Kind of a waste of effort by that high quality Japanese shop to install that nearly useless primitive system on this nicely designed and built retro refractor.  Why not just include that nice retro 30mm finder and charge another 25 dollars for the complete scope?

Seemed like a bit of a rip-off to charge extra for a necessary item like a finder on the SB80.  I guess since it is painted a similar "tak" green color they thought they could "ala carte" the finder.  A shame really as their eyepieces are first rate and included with this telescope system.  Why not the "1980's vintage" design finder and stalk?  

 

BTW I also own a beautiful Zeiss Telementor 2 and I was fortunate to purchase the excellent Zeiss optical finder scope for it as a similar "peep site" is mounted on the T2 also as standard equipment for school kid use in what used to be the GDR (or East Germany as it was known).  Guess that peep system was necessary to prevent breakage by the students.....?                 (my peep sight pet peeve is done now).  

 

I agree with all of the reviews that the optics are first rate for and F10 80mm achromatic refractor!   Eyepieces are very good.  Mirror diagonal is good but not as good as my Baader amici prism diagonal.....or my vintage orion "tube design" mirror diagonal.  I will use the system as-is during outreach events - which is why I purchased it anyway.  I was looking for a similar scope to my Celestron F11 80mm by Vixen, who's optics were excellent, but I sold it to a Club member who was looking for an excellent first refractor system.....miss that beautiful scope on that Gem mount system.  No achromat out there today in that aperture class as good as that 1980 system - for public outreach and splitting doubles, IMHO.

 

This SB80 is very close, though, and it looks a lot prettier in white and light green trim. 

 

Clear skies,

George, NY

I had mine out Tuesday night and Saturn looked fantastic with the 9mm Ortho.  Very sharp.  Same way with the moon.  Everything looked very sharp, with deep black shadows and small craters everywhere.  The harder I looked, the more, and smaller craters I could see.  I went out later when Orion was up.  The “Trap” was super sharp with the 20mm Kellner, and M42 showed a lot of nebulosity.  It’s a great scope.


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#42 SandyHouTex

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 08:32 PM

I still don't understand why it is so important for some to think of the Starbase80 as being a Takahashi, which it clearly is not.  

 

It is a shame that Kubota/Scopetech misses out on the credit for a decent achromat at a decent price.... My choice would be the Scopetech 80/1200.

I can answer that.  It was contracted by Takahashi.  It was made for Takahashi, and it is backed by Takahashi.  Why do you and lylver consistently maintain Tak has nothing to do with this scope?

 

Why do you say that “It’s a shame Kubota/Scopetech misses out on the credit...”?  How are they involved, and how do they deserve credit and for what?


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#43 starmason

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Posted 06 December 2019 - 09:04 PM

I can answer that.  It was contracted by Takahashi.  It was made for Takahashi, and it is backed by Takahashi.  Why do you and lylver consistently maintain Tak has nothing to do with this scope?

 

Why do you say that “It’s a shame Kubota/Scopetech misses out on the credit...”?  How are they involved, and how do they deserve credit and for what?

...and it actually comes with a Takahashi stick-on label so the owner can place it on their SB80 if they would like.

why would they include that label if it wasn’t endorsed by Takahashi?  Add this to the Conspiracy theories perhaps?  

Cheers, George.


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#44 edif300

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 05:56 AM

Just because Starbase itself states from the first day thats its not a Takahashi product.



#45 edif300

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 06:01 AM

Nor even takahashi warrants it and this point will be corrected (according Starbase confirmed to me) in the provided documents with Starbase80.


Edited by edif300, 07 December 2019 - 06:02 AM.


#46 starmason

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 03:06 PM

We all know, by now, that the Starbase80 is not made by Takahashi.  Why belabor that point.  That stick-on Takahashi label is not a figment of our imagination either.   Makes for great conspiracy theories, doesn’t it?

Why not just buy it and enjoy it? Everyone on this equip discussion seems interested in this scope system.

cheers,

Geo


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#47 edif300

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 04:04 PM

AFAIK there is no Tak identification in the scope itself. Could be so easy.

 

Said that, I am going to stick-on a Porsche logo in my car. I know that is not manufactured by Porsche and not warrants Porsche and isn't a Porsche, know it because the main seller sais it, but .... sticker added in the trip box that I sticker-on says Porsche!

 

Agree, just buy it and enjoy it as Starbase-80 made by Kubota/Scopetech. A great scope made in Japan.

 

Cheers



#48 hyia

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 04:23 PM

AFAIK there is no Tak identification in the scope itself. Could be so easy.

 

Said that, I am going to stick-on a Porsche logo in my car. I know that is not manufactured by Porsche and not warrants Porsche and isn't a Porsche, know it because the main seller sais it, but .... sticker added in the trip box that I sticker-on says Porsche!

 

Agree, just buy it and enjoy it as Starbase-80 made by Kubota/Scopetech. A great scope made in Japan.

 

Cheers

As far as the scope itself, it seems that everyone agrees on the facts, and there is nothing more to say.

 

I would like to know if you can comment on the origin of the eyepieces that come with it.  Some say they are made in Japan while others say the lenses come from China.  Do you have any information?  Thank you.



#49 Brollen

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 06:03 PM

Land Sea & Sky, an official Tak re-seller, has this on their site on the Starbase 80 page:

 

Takahashi announces its first entry level telescope, the Starbase 80.  The Starbase 80 is offered by Takahashi and made in Japan under contract with Takahashi at a factory in Hanamaki, Japan.  From the lens coating to the final assembly, every step is carefully performed by the skilled craftsmen of Hanamaki.

 

Regarding the EPs, I have bought 3 of the Starbase Orthos on a whim - this being my first foray into this type of EP - purchasing the 18mm, 14mm and the 9mm. I've never been a fan of Plossls and these are nothing like any of the Plossls I've had or the few I currently have.

 

Nowhere does it state country of origin on the EPs or the packing material - that I can see. They all have a quality construction and feel - seemingly all metal. They are weighted nicely, feeling very dense and solid yet they are small and comparatively light to so many of my other EPs.

 

I am particularly fond of the 18mm and 14mm as they work splendidly in all the scopes I have tried them on, including my Tak FS60Q, Vixen/Orion ED102SS, Orion ST80 and my SVR90T. The on-axis performance is excellent and they are actually very sharp - to my eyes - to about 80% out towards the edge. The color and contrast is very good and views are sharp and clean - much like my Baader Morpheus EPs.

 

Two things have really impressed me:

  1. The apparent field of view seems greater than the advertised 44 degrees ... in fact in comparing the 18mm to my Morpheus 17.5mm, I felt like it was no where near an almost 2-1 AFOV difference
  2. They barlow extremely well using my Japanese made Orion 2x Shorty Plus

I'm really enjoying these EPs to the point that I plan on getting them all and maybe the 25mm & 20mm Kellners too and I might start looking at the Tak Abbe EPs to fill in certain gaps. Some of my current EPs may be on the chopping block grin.gif but we'll see. I especially like the low weight & small size combined with excellent views and that has got me to re-thinking my EPs longterm.

 

Clear Skies!


Edited by Brollen, 07 December 2019 - 06:12 PM.

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#50 SandyHouTex

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Posted 07 December 2019 - 07:44 PM

As far as the scope itself, it seems that everyone agrees on the facts, and there is nothing more to say.

 

I would like to know if you can comment on the origin of the eyepieces that come with it.  Some say they are made in Japan while others say the lenses come from China.  Do you have any information?  Thank you.

There is a link in one of the two Starbase 80 threads, that linked to a seller in Japan that said the eyepieces were made in Japan and the configuration of the Orthos, which look to be actually Plossls.  Two non-identical, achromatic doublets.

 

I’m really impressed with the Kellners.  Very nice.


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