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TEC 200FL #001 Has Arrived

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#326 Kent10

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 02:26 PM

Right.  I heard back from Barry at CT.  I will have to contact the new company in January.  I think they are acquiring all of the equipment from CT and intend on making the same cases.  That is the impression I got.  It will take a couple months to get the equipment and set it up in the new location.  The price could be lower according to Barry.  But he was really just guessing.



#327 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:07 PM

Right.  I heard back from Barry at CT.  I will have to contact the new company in January.  I think they are acquiring all of the equipment from CT and intend on making the same cases.  That is the impression I got.  It will take a couple months to get the equipment and set it up in the new location.  The price could be lower according to Barry.  But he was really just guessing.

I hope Barry is able to continue his employment there, if he desires to.  Have you thought about making your own case?  I have made three nice fitting ones.  Two from thin birch plywood, and one, using a Contico tool box.  They were all for smaller scopes than yours, but one housed a six inch achro.


Edited by John Fitzgerald, 07 November 2019 - 03:10 PM.


#328 Kent10

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:10 PM

He didn't say but it didn't sound like he would continue because he implied I would be talking to someone else at the new company. 



#329 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:11 PM

I edited my above comment.  I could give you some pointers on making a case, if you might tend to go that way?


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#330 Kent10

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:18 PM

Thanks very much for the offer, John.  I "made" a case for my 180.  Rather fitted it.  I bought a case for golf clubs and then fitted it with foam.  It works very well and is much lighter than the case that came with the 180.

 

However, I don't have the time to make a case (if I want to get any viewing in smile.gif) otherwise it would be a fun project.  I would have to buy tools too I am sure.  Thanks again for the offer to help.  Very kind of you.

 

I can wait for the case.  I have been thinking about how to bring the scope in and keep the objective from fogging in the winter.  I think I will have to tape the objective cover on so it is air tight if that is possible.  I don't know if covering it with a bag will help.  I tried that with the 180 one time and I don't think it helped but maybe it wasn't air tight.  Not sure.



#331 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 03:23 PM

Suggestion for bringing inside in cold weather: Cover the end of the dew cap and focuser tightly with smaller bags.  Get a Christmas tree bag and bag it outside, making sure there are no holes.



#332 Kent10

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 06:02 PM

Thanks John.  I never thought about covering up the focuser end.  I will try that.  I see those Christmas bags are big enough to fit the 200 but then I won't have access to the handle on the 200 for easy carrying.  Some of the Christmas Tree Bags have handles but I am not sure they would be strong enough to risk.



#333 Kent10

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 06:37 PM

That Christmas Tree Bag might be a really good idea.  I can still use the handle on the scope if I don't close the bag completely.  Bring it in and then close it up.  Might be the best thing.  Might get some blankets in there too but then it gets heavier. 



#334 Paul Hyndman

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Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:28 PM

Kent ,you might also consider an Anvil case . Very road worthy, but very heavy . I have one you might want to see .It's not large enough for your needs but you could examine the hardware. Bill

+1!

 

I had a Calzone case for my FS128 (Calzone Case owns Anvil) and it was superb:

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Edited by Paul Hyndman, 07 November 2019 - 09:33 PM.

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#335 Kent10

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:10 PM

Thanks for the pictures, Paul.  Very nice.  Do you know if they make custom cases or did you happen to find one just the right size for your FS128?  Thanks.



#336 George9

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:32 PM

I just did some tests on my 92mm f/6.65 to look further into astigmatism with cooling. About a 40F temp drop. First note that my old 92mm f/5.5 that I used to own did not show astigmatism in the cold, and yet it also had a narrow tube like my new one. Perhaps due to a difference in baffles.

 

The scope initially looked perfect as I set it up very quickly, I guess because the cold did not get a chance to affect it yet. It then went straight to an oval on star test, but no D shape (I do initially see the D in a 70F drop). It definitely showed a 90 degree shift inside versus outside of focus, like classic astigmatism. Rotating the diagonal, eyepiece, and eye by 90 degrees proved that they were not at fault. I rotated the tube and the oval stayed the same with respect to the ground. To be honest, at one orientation, the oval was more pronounced, and at the 90 degree turned orientation, it was less pronounced, so perhaps there is some cooling astigmatism in the lens. Or else the air current actually warms or cools some part of the tube and if I left it at 90 degrees a little longer, the oval would grow more pronounced. I could try that in the future.

 

So bottom, line I am seeing something that looks just like astigmatism, with a classic pattern that flips inside versus outside of focus, and it is not primarily due to the lens, diagonal, eyepiece, or my eye. So it must be tube currents. My scope's maker thought it was likely warm air coming off the diagonal, and that that can indeed look like astigmatism.

 

It did resolve after cooling. But at this small aperture, I am finding that the in-focus view even when the star test shows an oval is indistinguishable from perfect. For example, Epsilon Lyrae showed a perfect spilt at the worst part of the cooling, and the Moon looked great. So I don't worry about it and just use the scope. And even though my old scope did not show this oval, the in-focus view in the new one is better than my old one even while the two scopes are cooling.

 

George



#337 Kent10

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 08:45 PM

Thanks for the nice report, George.  I have been trying to determine what effect the "small" amount of astigmatism or tube currents have on my view.  I am coming to the same conclusion you did, that it isn't affecting the in focus image.  But I can't be sure.  You would think it must affect the image in some very small way.  Perhaps the seeing will never be perfect enough for it to matter.  One day I will do an indoor star test to see what it looks like.  I expect to see no astigmatism or tube currents.  But I have done this before and if there is heat on you can see it in the star test. 

 

The D shape I saw was when the scope was almost level looking at the artificial star so the heat must be hugging the top of the tube.  When looking at real stars the heat inside the tube must rise to the top maybe it is more on top of the objective rather than only at the top of the tube so this could explain the differences I am seeing.  I have also seen the out of focus star change shape from oval to a very slight D, so that could be the seeing or the heat inside the tube finding its resting spot. 



#338 Paul Hyndman

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 10:27 PM

Thanks for the pictures, Paul.  Very nice.  Do you know if they make custom cases or did you happen to find one just the right size for your FS128?  Thanks.

I believe they still do Kent, they were big into custom work for band equipment etc.  Give them a call to verify:  Bridgeport, CT 800-243-5152 or Covina, CA 626-968-4100.



#339 Kent10

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 10:29 PM

I believe they still do Kent, they were big into custom work for band equipment etc.  Give them a call to verify:  Bridgeport, CT 800-243-5152 or Covina, CA 626-968-4100.

Very good.  Thanks, Paul!



#340 Astrohobby

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:16 AM

Another gadget I have been wondering about is the Atmospheric Dispersion Corrector.  Yuri recommends this one for the 200FL at about $4000 US.

 

https://www.apm-tele...l?mobile=false 

Hello Kent,

 

I follow your endevour with great interest. As far as the ADC is concerned there is also an option from the German manufacturer Gutekunst. It`s also in the astronomical price range unfortunately! The guy I bought my TMB LSOZ 6" from raved about the optical performance of objects in low height of the horizon (and he owns a 7" TEC Fluorite too!) . I can`t judge - so I bought a cheap ADC from Teleskop Service (also available from Zwo) - but haven`t had the time to test it yet - not as easy to use as the Gutekunst I`ve heard - but so much cheaper - for a first try to see what it can do - why not?

 

Cheers and keep us posted with your findings  Oliver



#341 Astrohobby

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:48 AM

Tonight I saw astigmatism again.  I am not sure why.  I opened the back end of the scope for an hour just like I did the last 2 days when I saw very little.  Observed at the same time and used the same equipment.  Hmmm.  There was the same amount of sun today and temps were approximately the same.  Will keep checking to see if I can figure out a reason.  I will eventually perform a star test on an artificial star but at close range.  I also have to be sure the diagonals are cooled appropriately so they aren't the culprit.  I didn't try without a diagonal tonight.

 

Saturn not so nice.  Jupiter, a moon was at the edge, but seeing was very poor so I left it.

 

Once again I compared the double double in the 2 scopes.  I used a 4mm Tak TOE in the 200 and a 3.5mm Pentax XW in the 180.  It was steady more often in the 180 so I changed to a 4.5mm Morpheus in the 200.  Perfect.  Really nice.  Just the right magnification.

 

I moved over to Cass. Iota and it was dim.  Clouds were moving in.  I knew they were coming but they arrived a little early.  I put away the 180 1st and then worked on the 200.  This was the 1st time I was going to use the Telegizmos covers.  Here is a pic.  What do you think?  I didn't cinch it too tight.  The eyepiece trays are still on there.  I think if I took them off I could cinch it tighter.  Do you think it will be OK in strong wind?  The set up weighs over 200 pounds I think (~40 for the pier, 57 for the mount, 60 counterweights and 56 for the scope). As I was saying we don't get really strong winds and certainly not often.  It was unusually windy today with gusts up to 50 and we don't get much worse than that.  10% chance of rain or snow tonight so I covered it and then it will be clear again for a good while.  I'll take the covers off tomorrow and I'll be back to observing again tomorrow night.  How fortunate I am!

Hello Kent again while going through the developments of your threat I wanted since a long time such Telegizmo! Based on the findings and report of Jeff (allways very valuable) I bought one from Teleskop Service 2 weeks ago for my 6" TMB Apo but haven`t it used yet due to bad weather. I have the same problem like you - no dome - on my property not achievable! And If I look on Jeff`s generious property there is no way to have such property in the most people polluted area in Germany! Not to speak of the light pollution!

 

Anyway my 8" CFF is in a large dome at a friend`s side in a dark area with a mount capable of carring 100 Kg. plus -  but this is 130 Km one way drive - so I don`t do it very often. I`m looking forward to your findings from which I can certainly benefit for my 6" in partly outdoor storage. I also be amused how you handle the 8". That has given me allways bad vibes, a thrill and sweat on the skin to mount and anmount - scope tows helped that procedure a lot!!

But who buys such a beast may know what this means - even one is suprised once you see it in real life (see Fate`s comments when he picked up his 7" at CFF)! It`s an observatory thing by all means - if you are at a certain age you won`t really manage this every possible evening.

 

Looking forward to your further findings - you are a hero!

 

Cheers  Oliver



#342 Astrohobby

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 12:16 PM

Boy, you got that right.  Floaters actually typically set my upper magnification limit and mine are not that bad.

 

But if you still only really see the astigmatism really close to focus at high power, like >than 40X per inch of aperture, that's really pretty good IMO.  

 

So the moon is coming along now.

 

The moon is one of my favorite comparison objects for sharpness, scatter, color error and resolution (as it's basically infinite).  When I get compulsive about it, I will easily spend an hour on one tiny feature, or maybe two, going back and forth at different magnifications.  I really do believe it is some form of illness for me. crazyeyes.gif looney.sml.gif twitch.gif Astronervousa

 

Jeff

Good evening Jeff,

 

try and convince yourself in buying a Leica zoom - even if pretty expensive you get high quality optics, no chanel view and you can allways match the seeing conditions (no good for bino viewing)! The Baader has a mag stop in clicks - more easy - but not the wide field of view at all mags! Optically quality wise there are in my opinion no comparison - the Leica leads - only the adapters (mine has for 2" a FT adapter and APM sells it with Nylon screws for the 1 1/4" - so the pressure to be applied is high and ruins the nylon screws probably after a while.

 

Once the mag is set and you wish to switch to maybe a super single focal lenghts EP - you might be set (TV, Pentax, TMB and so on)! You can judge the seeing and then select! I Love it and you don`t give away much of time in chaning the EP to find proper mag and contrast!

 

I was amused when using this for the first time in comparison to a Baader Zoom - but this is my own appraisal.

 

Cheers Oliver


Edited by Astrohobby, 11 November 2019 - 12:19 PM.


#343 Kent10

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 08:57 PM

Hello Kent,

 

I follow your endevour with great interest. As far as the ADC is concerned there is also an option from the German manufacturer Gutekunst. It`s also in the astronomical price range unfortunately! The guy I bought my TMB LSOZ 6" from raved about the optical performance of objects in low height of the horizon (and he owns a 7" TEC Fluorite too!) . I can`t judge - so I bought a cheap ADC from Teleskop Service (also available from Zwo) - but haven`t had the time to test it yet - not as easy to use as the Gutekunst I`ve heard - but so much cheaper - for a first try to see what it can do - why not?

 

Cheers and keep us posted with your findings  Oliver

Hi Oliver,

The ADC you mention from Gutekunst is the same one I mention but sold in the United States for $4000.  All the others, as you mention, are much less expensive.  And many people have found they also get some good results.  I actually have the ZWO and have tried it a couple times but I don't think I was using it properly.  You have to line it up just right.  It is a bit annoying to use with a shifting image but if it did work as intended that would be worth the effort.



#344 Kent10

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Posted 11 November 2019 - 09:06 PM

Hello Kent again while going through the developments of your threat I wanted since a long time such Telegizmo! Based on the findings and report of Jeff (allways very valuable) I bought one from Teleskop Service 2 weeks ago for my 6" TMB Apo but haven`t it used yet due to bad weather. I have the same problem like you - no dome - on my property not achievable! And If I look on Jeff`s generious property there is no way to have such property in the most people polluted area in Germany! Not to speak of the light pollution!

 

Anyway my 8" CFF is in a large dome at a friend`s side in a dark area with a mount capable of carring 100 Kg. plus -  but this is 130 Km one way drive - so I don`t do it very often. I`m looking forward to your findings from which I can certainly benefit for my 6" in partly outdoor storage. I also be amused how you handle the 8". That has given me allways bad vibes, a thrill and sweat on the skin to mount and anmount - scope tows helped that procedure a lot!!

But who buys such a beast may know what this means - even one is suprised once you see it in real life (see Fate`s comments when he picked up his 7" at CFF)! It`s an observatory thing by all means - if you are at a certain age you won`t really manage this every possible evening.

 

Looking forward to your further findings - you are a hero!

 

Cheers  Oliver

Hi Oliver,

 

Wow that is some mount.  I would like to have one like that but I doubt I could lift it.  My setup is still not the most stable but I am getting used to it.  I expected it would be better and I am still working on getting it better but I don't know how much better it can be.

 

When I 1st saw the 200 I was actually a bit surprised in that it looked smaller than I expected.  However, the weight is certainly not easy.  It is OK just moving it about but having to put it out in front of me even a little makes it feel much heavier.  I think putting it into waiting rings will be much easier than what I have been doing by putting the dovetail into the saddle.

 

I think I am also getting used to using the 200.  The 180 was so fast to set up but the 200 takes a bit of time even if set up outside already.  But I can now remove and put on the covers quite quickly so that is promising.  I need to get into the habit of always using the covers each night or else I will one day get caught with the covers off when it rains.  But I also have to be careful if it gets too windy because I don't want to get caught with a scope that falls over in the wind.  So then I will have to take the scope in.

 

And also, I have to be careful I don't fall off the ladder.  I tend to move quickly but I have to concentrate more before an accident happens.  The ladder needs to be stable on my not so level lawn.



#345 Astrohobby

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Posted Today, 10:06 AM

My comparison with the 180 is almost complete.  That doesn't mean I will never have them both out to compare again.  I still enjoy the views through the 180.  They are different.

 

I had a decent view of Saturn in the 200 last night but I noticed some astigmatism in the star test that I didn't notice in the 180 and I wonder if it was still cooling down even later in the evening.  I have never seen that in a star test before.  I will try again tonight to be sure everything is cooled (if possible) and centered.  I tried 2 different diagonals and without the diagonal as well and saw the same.  Slightly oval in the star test easier to see as you approach focus and then rotating 90 degrees on the other side of focus.  I'll try different eyepieces as well.

 

I finally moved the pier and 200 so I could view M13.  It took a while but this is all new to me.  M13 was obviously brighter in the 200 compared to the 180 with more stars.  Nice.  M57 and M27 again obviously brighter in the 200 with the central star of each more easily seen.  A piece of cake.  Well OK still not easy for M57 but not nearly as difficult as in the 180.

 

I wanted to compare a galaxy so I did M31, not significantly different but it was quite low in the sky.  M110 had slightly more reach I would say in the 200.

 

I have new neighbors soon to move in.  They were taking down 2 very large trees.  I am not sure why because I thought they were quite beautiful especially this time of year.  They did not look dying.  Good and bad news.  They open up the sky a little more for me in the south.  The bad news is that a street light is no longer blocked as much.  I will have to put up my shields I made to get it darker and that takes valuable time away from observing!

 

Today my Telegizmos 365 cover arrived.  I tried it out and I think it could work very well.  I am going to call on Monday to have a skirt made for the bottom of the pier to protect all the rubber there.  Thankfully we haven't had any rain since I received the scope so I have been able to keep it set up.  If I had to set up the pier and scope each time I wanted to view, I am not sure how often I would do it.  That is why I thought this through and with the help of Jeff and others I want to keep it outside under the cover most of the time.  I am a little nervous for that 1st rain but hearing Jeff's successes I am pretty sure it will work well.  I need to make it work.  I bought this scope to use and so I will use it often.

Hi Kent,

 

allways appreciate your findings and detailed reports!

 

 My Telegizmo 365 arrived too but haven`t used it yet because of no steady seeing conditions here. I went back to Teleskop Service and asked them how to proceed if the scope and anything else is dripping wet?

They recommend to use a cottom blanket over the scope and mount to be used for an 1 hour or so and then put on the Telegizmo. This is certainly extending the time before you can go to sleep but the benefit is the cottom sucks the moisture and at the end also protects the inlet of the Telegizmo since it`s so soft.

 

Courious about your further findings and keep up your endless efforts in getting things right.

 

Cheers  Oliver




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