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Alignment certificate for APM 100

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#1 CMacD

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 09:48 AM

I have a bit of a question for the group, mainly because I think I may have misunderstood the certificate or I confused it with others comments here. I recently purchased an APM 100 45deg from APM Germany. The binoculars arrived in fair time and packaged well with the supplied eyepieces but was missing the alignment certificate (people make mistakes and this just got missed I guess).  For whatever reason I was under the impression that this certificate came from Wellenform but after a bit of researching I guess that was a misunderstanding. Apparently they are busy these days and the certificate didn't get made out - but now I have to question if the "testing" was performed at all. They asked me to provide them with the serial number of my binoculars because they didn't write it down when they shipped them, and they will send me the alignment certificate in the mail. The images merge well at 40x but I only have a pair of 2.5 barlows that don't work so I'm not sure about higher power images merging yet. They perform well individually at 122 power (albiet dim and soft).

So the question has to do with the certificate's reason for existence. Is this APM's guarantee that the binocular will merge images at a certain power? I can't see on the web site if any claims are made in that regard.

(On a side note, my serial number starts with 2016. Does that mean that they made a run of these years ago and they are still selling them off or did I just get a pair at the back of the shelf? I hear there were variations of field stop diameters "ala Mr Bill so it may make a difference in my case?)



#2 Mike G.

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 10:13 AM

I purchased a pair of 100mm 45deg. ED binos a while back and also did not get a Wellenform cert.  my understanding is that it is an extra charge to have Wellenform perform the collimation and provide the cert.  Michael at APM assured me that all binos are checked inhouse for collimation before shipping, Wellenform cert or not, and they use 5mm EPs to check image merge for the 100's.  I never use mine that high although I have put 5mm EPs in to see if the images did in fact merge.  they did, although as you stated, the image suffers from very small exit pupil.  I never really use mine above 69x (8mm Vixen LVW).



#3 olebellow

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:51 AM

I purchased a pair of 100MM APM90 ED binos through Lunt solar earlier this year. It too did not come with an alignment certificate and I had to request it from Lunt. They contacted Germany and they sent me a PDF copy of the certificate via email. My bino serial number starts with 2017 and the certificate is dated Jan 11 2018 or Nov 1 2018 ( not sure how the Germans do their date).

 

The certificate is filled out in blue ink and completed by T. Buchwald and collimated to 110x. Not sure if this certificate was created per my request in 2019 and back dated or if it's the original. At this point it really doesn't matter, the binos are awesome and provide me with excellent views with or without an alignment certificate. 

 

Barry



#4 Goodchild

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 10:23 AM

This makes me wonder if APM is no longer certifying these binos based on historical good performance.



#5 oldmanrick

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 11:39 AM

This makes me wonder if APM is no longer certifying these binos based on historical good performance.

I wonder too, as I didn't get a certificate with my APM 150 bino.  I asked Markus about this and he said he could send me one, and I suggested that he include it with my next order, which I would place in about a month.  I haven't received this order yet, due to some of the merchandise apparently being delayed, so we have yet to see if there is a certificate.

 

Markus said he did the alignment testing personally.  The 150 seems to be well aligned, as I have been able to merge images easily up to over 400X.  I do often have to rotate eyepieces and adapters to get it perfect, though.

 

Rick



#6 tomb18

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 02:01 PM

I got one with my ed binos, but although the serial number was correct, it said it was a refractor and tested to 300x....
Make you wonder

#7 CMacD

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 07:38 AM

For completeness here is a copy of the certificate I received in email. I purchased the binoculars on Sept 22 and the certificate is dated for Sept 23. I guess it is what it is.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • APMCert.jpg

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#8 markb

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 02:28 PM

When I ordered my ED 100 45° binoculars, they were retirement gift to myself, and also I hoped to use them to bridge the gap between wide angle Sky scanning (my uncoated 45 degree WWII flak 10x80s are wonderful in this role) and a bit of planetary use.

 

After communicating with Markus on this point, I decided to pay a few hundred dollars extra to have the lens cells hand tuned and hand collimated. Markus could not recommend use over 200x. I hope to use them over 150 or 180x. They likely will well exceed 183x since they are extremely sharp, and have good 'snap' in daytime testing. I will probably take them on my first post-move dark sky site run, with the portable pier, although I kept bringing other scopes more in need of a test, pre-move.

 

My Wellenform certificate tested them at 183x using a 3-6 mm Nagler zoom.

 

Due to my solo move of the house contents of three people, I have given them little use to date, but when they arrived they completely blew away, both color and sharpness, the superbly collimated (4.8 Naglers) 'dealer demo' semiAPO black/blue tube 45 degree 100s that sold me on stepping up from the German flaks to the APMs.

 

I have seen scans of several certificates from Wellenform, none, apparently, from hand tuned units, and they varied in power from somewhere around 100x to 183x.

 

I have no doubt all testing is individually done, Markus has always been very straightforward, Wellenform appears very reliable, and they don't send out tons of certificates with the same imaginary numbers, something I've seen with a vendor or two in the past. Low test limits pop up regularly, and Markus makes no bones about the expected limit on unaltered binos being 50x, and that some go higher. He does sell the collimation tool as well, but also referred to the mass production sales as being a limiting factor on some of the binos.

 

My conclusion has been that Wellenform adds power to point where collimation, and possibly resolution, drop off, and keep going until they hit a ceiling or at 183x. A guesstimate, for sure.

 

One could do far worse than test with the well regarded Nagler zoom. I should buy one, for a simple Baader Hyperion Zoom + Nagler zoom travel kit!

 

Given my option purchase as well as my initial impression of sharpness at high power during daytime, I would not be surprised if mine also exceed the certificate test with Klee Barlows (IIRC they will reach focus, a concern on all the binos).

 

Only Markus can tell us.


Edited by markb, 16 November 2020 - 05:58 PM.

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#9 duck2k

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Posted 16 November 2020 - 05:46 PM

When I ordered my ED 100 45° binoculars, they were retirement gift to myself, and also I hoped to use them to bridge the gap between wide angle Sky scanning (my uncoated 45 degree WWII flak 10x80s are wonderful in this role) and a bit of planetary use.

 

After communicating with Markus on this point, I decided to pay a few hundred dollars extra to have the lens cells hand tuned and hand collimated. Markus did not recommend I hope to use them over 150 or 180x.

 

My Wellenform certificate tested them at 183x using a 3-6 mm Nagler zoom.

 

Due to my solo move of the house contents of three people, I have given them little use to date, but when they arrived they completely blew away, both color and sharpness, the superbly collimated (4.8 Naglers) 'dealer demo' semiAPO black/blue tube 45 degree 100s that sold me on stepping up from the German flaks to the APMs.

 

I have seen scans of several certificates from Wellenform, none, apparently, from hand tuned units, and they varied in power from somewhere around 100x to 183x.

 

I have no doubt all testing is individually done, Markus has always been very straightforward, Wellenform appears very reliable, and they don't send out tons of certificates with the same imaginary numbers, something I've seen with a vendor or two in the past. Low test limits pop up regularly, and Markus makes no bones about the expected limit on unaltered binos being 50x, and that some go higher. He does sell the collimation tool as well, but also referred to the mass production sales as being a limiting factor on some of the binos.

 

My conclusion has been that Wellenform adds power to point where collimation, and possibly resolution, drop off, and keep going until they hit a ceiling or at 183x. A guesstimate, for sure.

 

Given my option purchase as well as my initial impression of sharpness at high power during daytime, I would not be surprised if mine also exceed the certificate test with Klee Barlows (IIRC they will reach focus, a concern on all the binos).

 

Only Markus can tell us.

My APM 100 45 was also tested at 183x. I do have the Wellenform.:)



#10 yukosteel

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Posted 05 December 2020 - 09:32 PM

The one I received (with non-ED version) also said binos are tested on 110x. Just checked at 187x (with 3x short barlows and ES 8.8mm) - view is perfectly merging after fine rotation of EPes (to compensate their decentering). I have collimation tool, but looks like I don't need to use it, great quality!


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