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Coiled Aux Cable

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#1 Rac19

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 11:30 PM

I had a lot of difficulty locating this cable so I thought that i would share it for others who might be interested.

 

I was looking for a coiled 6P/6C (6 pole, 6 core) RJ12 cable, i.e.a coiled Aux cable. I have one that came with the Celestron Focuser but I wanted another for the StarSense camera. Believe it or not, the link below was the only positive result when I searched for it. After a lengthy search for a more local source, I ordered 3 from the UK. They do the job perfectly and in fact are very similar  to the cable supplied with the Focuser,

 

https://www.truspeed...dc6d2dd35&_ss=r

 

I think that it is odd that I found the cable on a slot car site rather than an astronomy supplier site.



#2 Paul Skee

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 12:03 AM

A while back I wanted to replace the flat cable that came with the StarSense with the coiled one that comes with the Evolution HD. I contacted Celestron support and was given this link: https://www.highpoin...eplacement-part

At first I thought he'd made an error. The Dec cable for my AVX had an 8 conductor connector and would not fit the StarSense or Aux port. I was told the newer AVX mounts utilize an 8 pin connector, the older mounts used the 6 pin. I ordered it and it works perfectly.



#3 Rac19

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 12:13 AM

A while back I wanted to replace the flat cable that came with the StarSense with the coiled one that comes with the Evolution HD. I contacted Celestron support and was given this link: https://www.highpoin...eplacement-part

At first I thought he'd made an error. The Dec cable for my AVX had an 8 conductor connector and would not fit the StarSense or Aux port. I was told the newer AVX mounts utilize an 8 pin connector, the older mounts used the 6 pin. I ordered it and it works perfectly.

Thanks, I wouldn't have thought to look for an 8 core cable. I guess that as long as the conductors are "straight through" and the 8 core plug fits, it will work with 2 conductors (probably the outer conductors) not used.

 

It is surprisingly difficult to source these cables though.



#4 Noah4x4

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 02:11 AM

Three years ago, I too replaced my (too long) flat Starsense camera cable with a short coiled cable that is an AVX spare part. My local retailer knew exactly what I needed.

 

I did post the Celestron part number in CN, but have been unable to find the post. Paul Skee's post hence should provide the solution. RAC19, note the link he offers is to a 6 connector cable used on older AVX models. 

 

EDIT - found my earlier post.

It was Celestron part number 8000706


Edited by Noah4x4, 11 October 2019 - 02:21 AM.


#5 Rac19

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:12 AM

Three years ago, I too replaced my (too long) flat Starsense camera cable with a short coiled cable that is an AVX spare part. My local retailer knew exactly what I needed.

 

I did post the Celestron part number in CN, but have been unable to find the post. Paul Skee's post hence should provide the solution. RAC19, note the link he offers is to a 6 connector cable used on older AVX models. 

 

EDIT - found my earlier post.

It was Celestron part number 8000706

I didn't read carefully enough. So the older ports were 8 conductor but the cable is 6 conductors. It would probably help if it was called an Aux cable rather than a motor cable for AVX etc. Anyway the slot car controller cable seems to be identical and definitely works.

 

EDIT: Highpoint Scientific seems to be about the only site worldwide that lists it, under an unrelated part number. I guess your best bet is to ask a helpful person at your local supplier as Noah4x4 did.


Edited by Rac19, 11 October 2019 - 03:42 PM.


#6 mclewis1

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:23 AM

Still not quite ... the original DEC cable port on the AVX was a 6 pin RJ12 (just like on the ASGT mount). Since this DEC cable connection was the same as the AUX ports there was the potential for folks to plug the DEC cable into the wrong port. Celestron later changed the connector on the mount to an 8 pin RJ45 type and combined that with a new cable to use that port. The connection is still only using 6 pins despite using an 8 pin connector.

 

The old ASGT and the original older AVX DEC cables were nice 6pin RJ12 black coiled cables. These can be used as extension cables for the hand controller (or any other area where a 6 pin cable was used). To use these coiled cables which are wired straight through as extension you must also have an RJ coupler that uses all 6 pins and is also wired straight through.



#7 Rac19

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 03:59 PM

Still not quite ... the original DEC cable port on the AVX was a 6 pin RJ12 (just like on the ASGT mount). Since this DEC cable connection was the same as the AUX ports there was the potential for folks to plug the DEC cable into the wrong port. Celestron later changed the connector on the mount to an 8 pin RJ45 type and combined that with a new cable to use that port. The connection is still only using 6 pins despite using an 8 pin connector.

 

The old ASGT and the original older AVX DEC cables were nice 6pin RJ12 black coiled cables. These can be used as extension cables for the hand controller (or any other area where a 6 pin cable was used). To use these coiled cables which are wired straight through as extension you must also have an RJ coupler that uses all 6 pins and is also wired straight through.

 

The couplers are another story. They seldom seem to be labeled "straight through" or "crossed over". Sometimes the only way to be sure is to test the pins with a multimeter, but there is a trap here for the uninitiated because the pin sequence at each end of of a coupler can seem to be crossed over when in fact it is straight through. This is because the sockets are oriented in opposite directions.

 

The image below, for a cable shows what I mean. If you twist the 1:1 cable so that both "lugs" are on top (as is the case for a coupler) it looks, superficially like a cross over.

 

The second image shows a simple visual comparison for cables. If you compare the colour sequence side by side, with lugs behind for both, it is the same for straight through and reversed for crossed over. This check can't be done with a coupler of course.

 

I have noticed at places like Jaycar that "computer" or "data" cable seems to mean the straight through and "telephone" cable is code for crossed over.

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Edited by Rac19, 11 October 2019 - 04:41 PM.

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#8 nic35

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 09:20 PM

I built some shorter flat cables for my starsense.  But I inadvertently crossed them over and ended up frying the electronics on my starsense camera.  Or, so I believe

 

Now, all cables get tested with this device available on Amazon:  Network Cable Tester RJ45 RJ11 RJ12 UTP LAN Cable Tester Wire Networking Tool(Battery Not Included)

 

I wish I had it earlier !

 

john


Edited by nic35, 11 October 2019 - 09:21 PM.


#9 Rac19

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 11:50 PM

I built some shorter flat cables for my starsense.  But I inadvertently crossed them over and ended up frying the electronics on my starsense camera.  Or, so I believe

 

Now, all cables get tested with this device available on Amazon:  Network Cable Tester RJ45 RJ11 RJ12 UTP LAN Cable Tester Wire Networking Tool(Battery Not Included)

 

I wish I had it earlier !

 

john

It's very easy to get it wrongmad.gif.

 

EDIT: I should add, so testing is very important, by whatever means available (excluding plugging it in to see if it works).


Edited by Rac19, 12 October 2019 - 04:00 AM.

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#10 Michael_Swanson

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 01:26 AM

Nice simple tester John!

 

Even better - buy a kit like this and you can make custom length cables and test them:

https://www.amazon.c...uct/B0756SN86D/

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.NexStarSite.com


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#11 Rac19

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 04:08 AM

Nice simple tester John!

 

Even better - buy a kit like this and you can make custom length cables and test them:

https://www.amazon.c...uct/B0756SN86D/

 

Best regards,
Mike Swanson
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide II"
Author of "The NexStar User's Guide"
Author of "NexStar Observer List"
https://www.NexStarSite.com

I have actually been using a home made cable for the SS camera, the cable that came with it was much too long. I used the 1:1 diagram above to get it right. With a short cable it isn't difficult to run the flat cable through you fingers to be sure that the lugs are on opposite sides.

 

I did a side by side colour sequence comparison as a sanity check, and did it with the coiled cable when it arrive. You really can't be to careful.

 

I am happier with the black coiled cable after all that though. It just seems neater. Tracking them down was the only real challenge. That's why I ordered three.


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#12 wrvond

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 08:17 AM

I buy mine from Digi Key for around $3.00 USD each. Very fast shipping, too.

https://www.digikey....bles/451?k=6p6c


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#13 SkipW

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:46 PM

I buy mine from Digi Key for around $3.00 USD each. Very fast shipping, too.

https://www.digikey....bles/451?k=6p6c

I get cables from them, too. They carry just about any type of modular cable you can imagine - flat or round, coiled or straight, and usually some choice of color. They ship fast, and their prices are very reasonable.

 

However... note the "Style" column (rightmost column) in that listing!

 

"Normal" "Standard" style is wired 1 <==> 6, 2 <==> 5, 3 <==> 4, 4 <==> 3, 5 <==> 2, and 1 <==>6. This is what I think is called a "straight" cable elsewhere (but see below).

 

"Reverse" style is wired 1 <==> 1, 2 <==> 2, ..., 6 <==> 6, and is (again, I think) called a "crossover" cable.

 

In my opinion this nomenclature is backwards, but telephone cabling (and voltage - but that's another story) "standards" and some of its nomenclature has always been somewhat haphazard.

 

The normal standard/reverse descriptions above are based on datasheets and samples of both styles I've received from Digi-Key, but note that my straight/crossover designations above are the opposite of what's shown in the image that Rac19 posted; I've seen illustrations (and descriptions) showing the way I describe as well as the opposite (but fewer of those, I think). Ugh!

 

Whatever you get, make sure it's the correct wiring before attempting to use it! If you have the original cable, or one you know works, compare the color sequence of the two ends side-by-side and be sure the replacement has the same arrangement. Get it wrong and something is likely to release the magic smoke that makes it work, and, once it's out, it's impossible to put the smoke back in and it don't work no mo'.

 

[Edit] Correct error in nomenclature. Apologies.


Edited by SkipW, 14 October 2019 - 10:52 PM.


#14 Rac19

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 07:12 PM

I get cables from them, too. They carry just about any type of modular cable you can imagine - flat or round, coiled or straight, and usually some choice of color. They ship fast, and their prices are very reasonable.

 

However... note the "Style" column (rightmost column) in that listing!

 

"Normal" style is wired 1 <==> 6, 2 <==> 5, 3 <==> 4, 4 <==> 3, 5 <==> 2, and 1 <==>6. This is what I think is called a "straight" cable elsewhere (but see below).

 

"Reverse" style is wired 1 <==> 1, 2 <==> 2, ..., 6 <==> 6, and is (again, I think) called a "crossover" cable.

 

In my opinion this nomenclature is backwards, but telephone cabling (and voltage - but that's another story) "standards" and some of its nomenclature has always been somewhat haphazard.

 

The normal/reverse descriptions above are based on datasheets and samples of both styles I've received from Digi-Key, but note that my straight/crossover designations above are the opposite of what's shown in the image that Rac19 posted; I've seen illustrations (and descriptions) showing the way I describe as well as the opposite (but fewer of those, I think). Ugh!

 

Whatever you get, make sure it's the correct wiring before attempting to use it! If you have the original cable, or one you know works, compare the color sequence of the two ends side-by-side and be sure the replacement has the same arrangement. Get it wrong and something is likely to release the magic smoke that makes it work, and, once it's out, it's impossible to put the smoke back in and it don't work no mo'.

This is such an easy thing to get wrong because "straight through" looks superficially like "crossed over". I live by the illustrations in post #7 and, so far, no problems.

 

The mistake, in my opinion, with the DigiKey nomenclature is to call one of them "normal" paves the way to calling the other "reverse". There is really no such thing as normal, I think that "straight through" and "crossed over" is safer, but even then it possible to make a mistake as per my first statement.



#15 SkipW

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:47 PM

This is such an easy thing to get wrong because "straight through" looks superficially like "crossed over". I live by the illustrations in post #7 and, so far, no problems.

 

The mistake, in my opinion, with the DigiKey nomenclature is to call one of them "normal" paves the way to calling the other "reverse". There is really no such thing as normal, I think that "straight through" and "crossed over" is safer, but even then it possible to make a mistake as per my first statement.

Oops, my bad... the terms used by DigiKey are "Standard" (not "Normal") and "Reverse". I apologize for any confusion.

 

These terms are used by at least some of the manufacturers themselves, with "Reverse" style having like-numbered pins connected to each other and "Standard" style cables have reversed pin numbers connected! Look at the datasheets from Assman and I/O Interconnect from the DigiKey listing for example. I haven't seen any datasheets that use these terms in the opposite way; at least one of the manufacturers (CNC Tech) doesn't use either of these terms, but DigiKey assigns the style consistent with the others. I don't like the nomenclature, but at least the datasheets make it clear how they're wired, and that's what I rely on when ordering, and then inspect the cables after they arrive since mistakes - either mine or theirs - could always happen.   

 

The terms "crossover" and "straight" are ambiguous. To me, which pin is connected to which should be the criterion, so a cable with pins wired to the same pin numbers on the other end would be considered "straight". But crimping connectors same side up on a straight flat cable with no twists would produce opposite pinouts on the two ends, and I've seen diagrams showing exactly that and describing it as "straight", so I avoid buying cables based on that description unless there is also unambiguous clarifying information like a datasheet; the datasheets seem to avoid these terms altogether, but a matching manufacturer's part number would suffice, I suppose, but I just order from DigiKey using their nomenclature and avoid the question.



#16 mclewis1

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Posted Yesterday, 09:17 AM

There's really nothing ambiguous about the term "straight through" in wiring. It's a well established concept where pin 1 goes to pin 1, 2 to 2 and so on. In this wiring the cable disappears, it has no effect on the circuitry except that pin one is now farther away from the original connector (it's extended).

 

Deviating from that terminology or using some close or of similar meaning is a big problem as it introduces uncertainty.

 

The root of the problem for our hand controller and AUX cables is that originally the most widely used 6 conductor flat cable with RJ ends was for telephoney use, specifically adding a 2nd phone (called an extension) to an existing land line. In this case the pinouts of the connector had to be changed (pin 1 went to pin 6, 2 went to 5, 3 to 4) or "crossed over". In order for the phone companies to save money on adapters and such to make the changes required the cable itself was changed. The problem is that it's almost impossible to notice the difference in the pinouts and the cables are too small to be obviously labeled one way or the other.

 

Because this was the most popular use of this type of 6 pin cable it was also referred to by some folks as the "standard" cable, and any non standard cable was referred to as "reversed". In the telephoney usage nobody really looked at the pins, the cable was either wired for an phone extension or not (standard or not).

 

Thank the Bell heads and sloppy cable vendors for the original confusion. Today we have to ...

1) look for the specific and exact nomenclature

2) read the data sheets (IMHO a great value supplied by some vendors)

3) after a purchase verify every cable using the wire colors or with a cable tester or multimeter

 

So if you buy inexpensive cables and can't rely on #1 or 2, then you must carefully apply #3


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#17 SkipW

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Posted Yesterday, 02:11 PM

I agree that "straight through" and "crossed over" shouldn't be ambiguous, but I've seen the same term applied to both kinds of cable, so I've avoided that description alone since I've found other terminology that's consistent (even if it seems backward to me).

 

The moral of the story, regardless, is check(!) the cable's configuration before using it! If you're not sure what it's supposed to be, you will have to do some research, preferably before ordering the cable(s), then make sure what you received is correct.




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