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Oberwerk BT 100XL-ED vs APM 100mm ED 45 Degree

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#1 Keith-in-Texas

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 12:42 PM

Hello,

 

I am considering the purchase of a 100mm binocular telescope for wide-field deep sky viewing and on occasion lunar and planetary use. These would also be used during the daytime for wildlife observation and when on camping trips. I'm hoping these would serve as a great "grab and go" solution for backyard use at a fairly dark sky home location (Milky Way readily visible).

 

An appropriate tripod and fluid head such as the Manfrotto 475B with N12 head will be used to ensure appropriate mounting.

 

The two binocular telescopes being considered are:

 

Oberwerk BT 1000XL-ED

APM 100 ED 45 degrees

 

I would welcome comments from those of you who have evaluated the most recent versions of these two fine instruments.

 

Specifically I would like to know your experience with each model, the Pros/Cons of each based on the specific instrument you received along with support provided and lastly, which binocular telescope provided you the most pleasing high contrast views if pushed to 80x or higher on the moon/planets.

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience!

Best regards,

 

Keith  



#2 Mike G.

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 02:46 PM

first, let me say that my 100mm APM's are an excellent instrument and I do not regret a single penny I spent on them.   I also have no experience with the 100mm offerings from Oberwerk but have first hand experience with them on other products and have no reason to expect that the BT100's would be anything less than excellent.   that said, MY personal feeling is that binoculars are low power/wide field instruments, regardless of how big they are. there are 2 things that make me say this.  1 - binoculars are short focal length.  this is why you have wide field but also limits the magnification and puts higher demands on eyepiece design and construction. you can push them to 100x, but the views are not very pleasant.  #2 is that as you go shorter and shorter f/l with the EP, the exit pupil of course becomes smaller.  in a telescope this is not such a big deal but in binoculars, it leads to what I call 'head alignment' issues.  my head is not so steady that I can keep two 1mm exit pupils perfectly aligned that I can continuously keep an object in view without experiencing blackouts. eyepieces with just the right amount of eye relief that you can put the eyecups into your eye sockets to keep alignment aren't too bad but I wear both eyeglasses and contacts so when I buy EPs, they're long eye relief so I can use them with glasses.  but then when I have my contacts in, my head bobs and weaves and the image goes in and out at magnifications greater than about 70x.  again, my express opinion, the APM 100's sweet spot is between 30 and 60x.  if I want to observe at high power with a grab and go, I get my C6 out - a much more comfortable instrument for high magnification viewing.  if you don't have a problem keeping 2 very small exit pupils aligned while standing, then a lot of this doesn't apply.  I don't think you could go wrong with either, but as they are both short focal length, the small exit pupils at high mag are likely to be an issue with both.


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#3 DeanD

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:35 PM

I'm jealous! It is like choosing between a BMW and a Merc. Or in telescope terms choosing between a Tak and an AP. I would love either one! wink.gif

 

My thoughts are that you will find very little difference optically, and their specs are so close as to be effectively identical, so if they come out at the same price for you then I would be thinking in terms of ease of service and even supporting my local industry/jobs. I have heard great reports about both Oberwerk and APM, but it would surely be easier to deal with a local supplier/"manufacturer" who has a good rep. for QC, than one that is based on the other side of the ditch...

 

I am sure you be happy whichever way you go.

 

All the best,

 

Dean


Edited by DeanD, 13 October 2019 - 06:36 PM.

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#4 B 26354

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:43 AM

@DeanD...

 

The OP lives in Texas, USA.

 

Oberwerk is based in Ohio, USA:

 

https://oberwerk.com

 

... but the European APM binoculars are also available from Outdoor Sport Optics, in Pennsylvania, USA:

 

www.outdoorsportoptics.com

 

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#5 Rich V.

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 11:49 AM

Does Outdoor Sports Optics provide service/repair in the USA or are they merely a distribution outlet?



#6 B 26354

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:12 PM

Good question! Not sure. I've never actually dealt with them... but I wanted to let the OP know that they exist. If they're interested or curious, the OP should definitely call them and ask.



#7 GamesForOne

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 01:59 PM

Also, does Outdoor Sports Optics carry stock to ship from the USA or just take orders for drop-ship from APM Germany.

 

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#8 oldmanrick

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:08 PM

I believe OSO does carry many APM items in stock.  That is where my 150mm bino was shipped from.

 

I don't think they currently do much if any service/repair work.  The proprietor, Mike Peoples has been ill for an extended period of time, but I spoke to him about a month ago, and he was planning on returning to work soon.  Very nice gentleman to talk to, and I would urge the OP to speak with him personally if he has questions.

 

Rick


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#9 Keith-in-Texas

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 05:47 PM

Thank each of your for your input, very much appreciated!

 

It appears that perhaps no members have both of these telescope binoculars or no one has compared both instruments first-hand,

 

If you are so inclined I do welcome input from anyone who wants to share their positive experiences with either the Oberwerk BT 1000XL-ED or

APM 100 ED 45 degrees binocular telescopes.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Best regards,

 

Keith



#10 Beg

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 10:04 PM

I'm guessing that the views that you get with these two excellent ED 100mm BT's are to close to call. Never have seen a nasty review of either since they have come out. I believe that Binomania stated that the Oberwerk was a tad brighter comparing the two BT's, but that's it. I have no complaints with my 100XL. It excels for what it is. I have had to send it back to Kevin twice, once for a romb replacement and once for a EP holder refit. Both times I got them back really fast within a week. I took that into account before I ordered that bino just in case, and glad I did.. Did not want to have to deal with a dealer halfway around the world.



#11 GamesForOne

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 10:29 AM

I personally have been tempted to sell my APM 100mm 90-deg (FK61 glass) and go back to a 45 deg model. The Obie 100XL looks tempting.

 

However, APM is selling the remaining 100mm FK61 models at a discount and I can't afford to take that much of a loss as I'd have to sell mine below the discount price.

 

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Michael Mc


Edited by GamesForOne, 16 October 2019 - 10:31 AM.


#12 Keith-in-Texas

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 12:17 PM

Thank you Brian and Michael, I appreciate your input.



#13 GrahamDFyffe

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Posted 16 October 2019 - 06:19 PM

I will echo Brian's feedback on the Oberwerk. Excellent and fast customer service. I have no experience with the APM's and they have wonderful reviews here. You mention grab and go and I believe that the Obie's are a tad lighter. I have the exact setup that you mention wither 475 and N12 (Actually the N8 works just as well) and that is as heavy a setup as I would want to lug around my (reasonably) dark backyard. 


Edited by GrahamDFyffe, 16 October 2019 - 06:19 PM.


#14 markb

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:59 AM

APM 100s APO ED, 45 degree, most folks prefer them over 90s from what I have been told. The 120s are said to be water white colorless.

 

No regrets on the purchase, hand built cell option available to maximize sharpness.

 

Markus can be prickly at times, but very helpful and straight forward, and overall a real pleasure to deal with. Shipping from Germany was not a problem, and I thought he was part of setting up PAthe  distribution and sales site.

 

I have always had the impression that he, like UO in the past, speced the materials and also got the 'cream' of the factory output, from Asia, particularly in recent years.

 

The 'average' products of those factories are excellent, but I am comfortable with any of the APM offerings, and shop there first.




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