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Will someone please scratch my itch...

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#1 Jond105

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:10 PM

This year I was seconds away from purchasing a 150 mak, until things fell into place and I ended up with a 120ED. The itch isn’t gone though. And I cant stop looking at 150 or even 127 maks. Owning a 120ED, is there any reason whatsoever to own one of these. Looking for great reasons not to buy one, and to get rid of the itch. 


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#2 aneeg

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:17 PM

No matter what scope you will buy next the it h will never go away. There will always be another scope......

 

Arne


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#3 macdonjh

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:18 PM

A Maksutov that size will be more grab-and-go than your refractor...


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#4 Jond105

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:20 PM

It takes me 5 minutes to be up and running in the 120ED. From out the basement to set up, is less than 5 minutes just about with my mount. So that still is a tie between how long it would be to take out the mak. 



#5 petert913

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:22 PM

Why not own both?  I have 6 telescopes of all different optical types so that I can experiment

to my hearts content.   Except I need more !   smile.gif


Edited by petert913, 13 October 2019 - 04:23 PM.

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#6 TOMDEY

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:23 PM

Don't mess around; go straight for a Questar-7 !    Tom


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#7 macdonjh

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:34 PM

It takes me 5 minutes to be up and running in the 120ED. From out the basement to set up, is less than 5 minutes just about with my mount. So that still is a tie between how long it would be to take out the mak. 

I'll bet you could get a 6" Maksutov out of your basement in 4-1/2 minutes.


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#8 wrvond

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:38 PM

This year I was seconds away from purchasing a 150 mak, until things fell into place and I ended up with a 120ED. The itch isn’t gone though. And I cant stop looking at 150 or even 127 maks. Owning a 120ED, is there any reason whatsoever to own one of these. Looking for great reasons not to buy one, and to get rid of the itch. 

Based on the recommendation of you and some other people I now have a 120ED.
 

There’s different, but there isn’t better.


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#9 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:40 PM

If you want to scratch that itch, I'd go for a used one to try out so you can re-sell for no significant loss.

 

Otherwise, I'd be much more interested in looking at scopes that complement your 120mm.

 

And I do not think that a 127 or 150 Mak would complement your 120 at all well. They would be close to going as deep, but they will take longer to cool down, and will have a very narrow field.

 

For my money the complementary end would be either a small refractor, like an 80 or 90.

 

Or, it would be a reflector in the 10-12" range, possibly larger depending on your interests (this would be where I'd go).


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#10 vdog

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:40 PM

 And I cant stop looking at 150 or even 127 maks.

You and me both.  No sooner had I purchased a new mount (Twilight I) than I started thinking, "I'll bet an SCT or Mak would ride really nicely on this.  Ooh, and I could equip a binoviewer for planets . . . ."

 

And, so it goes . . . grin.gif


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#11 Jond105

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:47 PM

If you want to scratch that itch, I'd go for a used one to try out so you can re-sell for no significant loss.

 

Otherwise, I'd be much more interested in looking at scopes that complement your 120mm.

 

And I do not think that a 127 or 150 Mak would complement your 120 at all well. They would be close to going as deep, but they will take longer to cool down, and will have a very narrow field.

 

For my money the complementary end would be either a small refractor, like an 80 or 90.

 

Or, it would be a reflector in the 10-12" range, possibly larger depending on your interests (this would be where I'd go).

I went and looked at 80mm. I can’t justify having smaller than 100mm of aperture from where I observe, I’ve had a 10” dob, and with where I observe, I can’t justify wanting one again until the kids are older, and I have time to get out of the backyard, where it will shine completely. 

 

 

Used is the the only way I’ll go, because as you said, no loss after I scratch the itch and don’t like it. Or a significant return if I do. 



#12 sanbai

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 04:49 PM

The Mak is more portable and shorter. Less likely to be a contortionist when observing. Less torque for the mount to deal with, less affected by wind.

It will provide higher magnification with longer FL eyepieces (planets and double stars). If yours are not "long eye relief", that may result in more comfort.

However, I would invest the money in something else. If aperture is similar, there is little gain for visual use. It is not really wide fields vs narrow field because the refractor can also achieve the same magnification through EP selection (the mak cannot go as wide, though).

What about a nice eyepiece or filter? For exemple, if you don't have an OIII, this would open more opportunities than adding a mak.

Santiago

Edited by sanbai, 13 October 2019 - 04:53 PM.

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#13 Jond105

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:07 PM

The Mak is more portable and shorter. Less likely to be a contortionist when observing. Less torque for the mount to deal with, less affected by wind.

It will provide higher magnification with longer FL eyepieces (planets and double stars). If yours are not "long eye relief", that may result in more comfort.

However, I would invest the money in something else. If aperture is similar, there is little gain for visual use. It is not really wide fields vs narrow field because the refractor can also achieve the same magnification through EP selection (the mak cannot go as wide, though).

What about a nice eyepiece or filter? For exemple, if you don't have an OIII, this would open more opportunities than adding a mak.

Santiago

There’s only one eyepiece left for me to add, which will come, the 3.5mm Nagler. Filters, I’m not sure I feel about them as I observe from my backyard in a B9 zone. Not sure if an OIII is a beneficial way to go. 



#14 areyoukiddingme

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:09 PM

I went and looked at 80mm. I can’t justify having smaller than 100mm of aperture from where I observe, I’ve had a 10” dob, and with where I observe, I can’t justify wanting one again until the kids are older, and I have time to get out of the backyard, where it will shine completely. 

 

 

Used is the the only way I’ll go, because as you said, no loss after I scratch the itch and don’t like it. Or a significant return if I do. 

Given you situation and your obvious enjoyment of your 120, then why not look at ways of optimizing your experience and use of that scope?

 

Perhaps a focuser upgrade? Lots of other accessory possibilities of course . . . 



#15 grif 678

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:18 PM

I have a 127 mak and a C102, not much difference, the C102 is a little sharper, but is more cumbersome, which will make a lot of difference as you get older. Also a binoviewer on the 127 mak is a breeze, no focus travel issues at all, like on some refractors.


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#16 Jond105

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:21 PM

Given you situation and your obvious enjoyment of your 120, then why not look at ways of optimizing your experience and use of that scope?

 

Perhaps a focuser upgrade? Lots of other accessory possibilities of course . . . 

I’ve already put the moonlite on it as well as upgraded the eyepieces. Maybe it’s time to drop the money on the 3.5mm Nagler to round off my set. 


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#17 sanbai

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 05:25 PM

There’s only one eyepiece left for me to add, which will come, the 3.5mm Nagler. Filters, I’m not sure I feel about them as I observe from my backyard in a B9 zone. Not sure if an OIII is a beneficial way to go.

I'm also in B8-9. I bought one a couple of weeks ago. With some planetary nebulas it's like turning them ON where you could see nothing without filter. Others will pop out more. I have to compare it more to my NPB (UHC like) filter. It really opens the numbers of objects I can see.
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#18 vtornado

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:08 PM

I have heard about the magic of Mak's and I have drunk the kool-aide.

I just bought an orion 127 mak  from another member here, it was in new condition.

Last night was clouds with holes big enough to peek at the moon.

Seeing was not very good, the moon's edge was dancing.

 

I side by side  mounted a 100mm ed refractor..  I was running both at about 100x.

The views were nearly identical.  I looked for the smallest craters and mountains I could see, I looked

at rilles and ejecta patterns.  This kind of makes sense, subtracting out the diagonal

and the relectivity loss of the mirrors. 

 

The mak mounts on a tw1, the ed100 does not.  The mak is more comfortable to view from

because the eyepiece wasn't way down when pointed up. I had to put the mak out for one hour to cool.

 

If the mak vs ED refractor scales, your 120 ED is probably about the the same as a 150mak.


Edited by vtornado, 13 October 2019 - 07:54 PM.

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#19 PXR-5

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 06:34 PM

The nice thing about the Mak is that the EP does not move up and down as much. It's a very comfortable scope.

If that's something that sounds nice to you...
Well there's your excuse 😋
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#20 LDW47

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 10:02 PM

If you don’t get something that hunger, that craving, those doubts will always be there on many sleepless nights ! And my bet is it won’t end there, lol !   PS: I know those feelings !


Edited by LDW47, 13 October 2019 - 10:03 PM.

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#21 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 02:29 AM

I think Scott hit the nail on the head. If you get a good one, once you've dealt with the thermal Gremlins, it will be comparable to your Refractor.   It had a 127 Orion Mak. The true aperture was about 120 mm, the true central obstruction was 40%. 

 

(Orion stated the "secondary mirror central obstruction" is 31%. That's a half truth. The secondary baffle is the actual CO and it's 49 mm, 40%.)

 

I compared it optically to my 120 mm Eon. The Eon was far better as one might expect. Brighter and sharper, crisper. 

 

Jon


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#22 Redbetter

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 04:31 AM

This year I was seconds away from purchasing a 150 mak, until things fell into place and I ended up with a 120ED. The itch isn’t gone though. And I cant stop looking at 150 or even 127 maks. Owning a 120ED, is there any reason whatsoever to own one of these. Looking for great reasons not to buy one, and to get rid of the itch. 

I can't speak from experience with a 150mm Mak, but you would be going backwards with a 127 Mak other than portability.  My 110ED with some CA (call it semi-apo) shows very slightly more planetary detail than my 127mm Mak in good conditions.  The refractor is better in poor conditions or when thermal equilibration is an issue.  I can see somewhat dimmer moons with it than the Mak (e.g. about the difference between Tethys and Dione on a marginal night in town)--this is most likely a contrast effect of the larger obstruction and perhaps the optical configuration with respect to baffling or surface roughness/mirror scatter.   The refractor also has much wider possible FOV since it has shorter focal length and has 2" vs. 1.25" effective diagonal limitation.  

 

During warm/mild parts of the year I am more inclined to take the 127Mak outside for quick looks on its light alt/az mount rather than the heavy/bulky 110ED on its heavier GEM mount.  This is for planetary in the backyard where I want to observe a transit/etc. or get some idea if the seeing is any good and might even warrant bringing out a larger scope. 

 

While the 110ED is taken to dark skies once in awhile for specific tasks beside the 20", or even solo for outreach, the Mak has never made the trip.  To be fair, that is because I didn't get the Mak to use for DSO's although I do observe some DSO's with it in the backyard at times.  The calculated total system transmission/light grasp of the 127Mak and 110ED are nearly identical. 

 

Making a guess as to Mak equivalency:  if a 110ED refractor is roughly equivalent to a 127 Mak (and that is being slightly generous to the Mak) then based on scaling area ratios for the type a 150mm Mak would be equivalent to perhaps a 130mm ED semi-apo, and probably somewhat less. 


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#23 LDW47

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:56 AM

My feeling is and I might be wrong, is that it goes beyond capabilities, goes beyond the differences, you just plain want one in your hands ! LOL !


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#24 Jond105

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 03:46 PM

Given you situation and your obvious enjoyment of your 120, then why not look at ways of optimizing your experience and use of that scope?

 

Perhaps a focuser upgrade? Lots of other accessory possibilities of course . . . 

This post really got me and makes me glad I posted this. It made me think of something I never had, and something I think will help out a little, and that being new, better rings for my scope, as the ones that came with it I’ve always felt, just were not the stiffest. So in light of that, I’m going to go with new rings with the spare money and get off this mak kick. 


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#25 vdog

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 06:54 PM

 I still want a mak.sct.pngmrevil.gif 

 

lol.gif


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