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My new eyepiece doesn't look new...

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#1 DenaliScope

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:39 PM

Greetings! Completely new astronomer here buying his first two eyepieces, and I have a stupid question for you. Actually, as a brand-new amateur astronomer, I have a lot of stupid questions, but I will only burden you with one for the moment. I am asking for some advice regarding my expectations for "new" eyepieces.

 

I bought an Agena eyepiece from the Agena Astroproducts website, and it arrived yesterday completely flawless. Not a scratch, not a spec of dust. I was quite impressed.

I also bought an Antares eyepiece from the scopestuff website, and it arrived today with dust specs and a few tiny (very tiny) scratches on the lens. Also, its outer edges look a little... dirty. It looks like someone cleaned the lens and didn't quite get the outermost edges near the metal barrel.

 

How big of a deal is this? Is it common? Should I make a fuss about it?

 

Not having any previous experience at buying eyepieces, I don't want to make a faux pas complaining about something that most astronomers accept as part of the hobby. I understand that eyepieces get returned, restocked, and resold. But I also don't want to be taken advantage of simply because I don't know any better. The eyepiece was certainly not advertised as "used". Here is a link for reference (it's the #EW231): http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_sw2x.htm

I have also attached a picture of the inside of the eyepiece. Most of those white specs are just dust, but the straight lines are tiny scratches.

 

Thank you very much in advance. And please do not make (too much) fun of my eyepiece purchases. I know they are not expensive, but they are all that I can afford at the moment. Anyway, thanks again!

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#2 petert913

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:48 PM

That's a lot of particulate there.  Easy enough to clean, but you shouldn't have to with a new EP. 



#3 agmoonsolns

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:00 PM

They sell a lot of used equipment and might have accidentally shipped you a used unit instead of a new one. I would contact them and arrange to return it for a new one as you ordered and paid for.


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#4 agmoonsolns

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:02 PM

P.S. I would absolutely and immediately return it, that's definitely a used eyepiece.


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#5 Creedence

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:05 PM

That’s not an inexpensive eyepiece at all, and it does seem like you probably drew the short straw and were given a restocked item.

For that money, I’d personally be coordinating for an exchange with an unopened new one. The way I view it, if you paid full retail, you’ve paid for the privelege of giving it its first fingerprints and marks.
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#6 star drop

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:15 PM

The end of the eyepiece barrel is not perfectly round and has some dents. That is not what a new eyepiece should look like.


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#7 Greyhaven

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:19 PM

Greetings! Completely new astronomer here buying his first two eyepieces, and I have a stupid question for you. Actually, as a brand-new amateur astronomer, I have a lot of stupid questions, but I will only burden you with one for the moment. I am asking for some advice regarding my expectations for "new" eyepieces.

 

I bought an Agena eyepiece from the Agena Astroproducts website, and it arrived yesterday completely flawless. Not a scratch, not a spec of dust. I was quite impressed.

I also bought an Antares eyepiece from the scopestuff website, and it arrived today with dust specs and a few tiny (very tiny) scratches on the lens. Also, its outer edges look a little... dirty. It looks like someone cleaned the lens and didn't quite get the outermost edges near the metal barrel.

 

How big of a deal is this? Is it common? Should I make a fuss about it?

 

Not having any previous experience at buying eyepieces, I don't want to make a faux pas complaining about something that most astronomers accept as part of the hobby. I understand that eyepieces get returned, restocked, and resold. But I also don't want to be taken advantage of simply because I don't know any better. The eyepiece was certainly not advertised as "used". Here is a link for reference (it's the #EW231): http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_sw2x.htm

I have also attached a picture of the inside of the eyepiece. Most of those white specs are just dust, but the straight lines are tiny scratches.

 

Thank you very much in advance. And please do not make (too much) fun of my eyepiece purchases. I know they are not expensive, but they are all that I can afford at the moment. Anyway, thanks again!

This is a conversation you should have had with Scopestuff before hashing it out here in the forums. I have done some ordering from them always with satisfying results.

Grey


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#8 BFaucett

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:31 PM

How big of a deal is this? Is it common? Should I make a fuss about it?

 

Not having any previous experience at buying eyepieces, I don't want to make a faux pas complaining about something that most astronomers accept as part of the hobby. I understand that eyepieces get returned, restocked, and resold. But I also don't want to be taken advantage of simply because I don't know any better. The eyepiece was certainly not advertised as "used". 

 

Don't over think this. If you're not happy with it then just contact them and return it. Don't agonize over it. 

 

Cheers! Bob F. 


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#9 Shorty Barlow

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:33 PM

I've only ever owned one Speers-Waler, and that had to be returned because of visible debris. I'd return it if I were you. It doesn't even look new.



#10 Creedence

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:34 PM

This could happen with almost any retailer, it’s important to acknkwledge that, but I think the OP asked a fair question without disparaging the vendor.

I usually take great pains to avoid any conflicting opinions on here, but I offer a respectfully contrasting viewpoint, I think there’s nothing inappropriate about the OP’s post or tone. We’ve all been new and uninitiated, perhaps even uninitiated to sensitivities associated with cottage industry or lifestyle product vendors, and this forum exists to help people in situations like this. I’m sure the vendor will make it right now that he knows he’s got an anomoly, and when they do, the OP ought to publicly mention that. Good opportunity to showcase how great the vendor is if warranted.

Edited by Creedence, 17 October 2019 - 08:38 PM.

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#11 wrnchhead

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:42 PM

Agreed with Creedence. This was not nor had the tone of a flame. And when you are new, you don't know what to expect, which is most of the purpose of an internet forum. 

 

As to the original poster, I would contact them as others have said. And here's a vote to scopestuff being a great place, and I am 100% confident they will take care of you. 


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#12 DenaliScope

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:46 PM

Thank you all for such great advice. 20/20 hindsight, I should have said "bought an Antares eyepiece from [a well-known astronomy vendor]. I just didn't want you guys to think I was whining about something I picked up off Ebay. I certainly wasn't trying to disparage the vendor.

 

Rack it up to another n00b mistake on my part. I contacted the vendor and I will followup this thread with the resolution to give them props for good customer service if it all turns out well.

 

Just to explain a little more (read: defend my original post), I went to two star parties before deciding to buy my own scope, and the eyepieces I got to handle looked as bad or much worse than the one I got from the vendor. So for all I knew, you guys would have said, "Yeah, that's nothing and it won't affect your views. Restocking returned pieces keeps costs down, so quit yer $!^@#ing."

 

Thanks again, guys! I'll hopefully find my feet quickly.


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#13 havasman

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:54 PM

Hi DenaliScope and welcome to the forums!

 

Email Jim at scopestuff.com about this. He's a good guy running a fine supplier to the hobby. I have quite a few products from them. Like several of our valuable suppliers, it's a side hustle run by a nice guy or small group that is wrapped up in the hobby. While they don't have product design engineers, IT departments or order pick systems they are customer responsive. Generally it's best to initially contact the supplier to give them first chance to respond to the problem.

 

And there is reason to be dissatisfied with that eyepiece for sure.


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#14 Shorty Barlow

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 05:13 AM

You wouldn't believe the amount of stuff I've had to return. It's just the way it is. The customer's always right, right? lol



#15 Roger Corbett

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:34 AM

One other point.  Given that you were sold a deficient product, you shouldn't have to pay for the return shipping, nor any handling charge.  It should all be done for free by the selling company.


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#16 DenaliScope

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 05:07 PM

One other point.  Given that you were sold a deficient product, you shouldn't have to pay for the return shipping, nor any handling charge.  It should all be done for free by the selling company.

Great point! Knowing me, I probably would have missed that. Thank you.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Okay, so this is embarrassing... I am now in the same situation, except this time it is about my telescope which arrived today.

 

I bought a new telescope from [a different well-known astronomy vendor], and the inside of the corrector lens has some tiny white things on it. One is bigger than the others. From reading other CN threads, it may be mold? I don't know how to tell. Also, the primary mirror has a small black square on it. I have confirmed that it is not a reflection from the white things on the inside of the corrector lens.

 

I am assuming the same advice applies ("you bought it new, contact the vendor for a return"). But I am absolutely foaming at the mouth to use this thing. So my questions to you fine people are:

1.) Will this impact my views more than 1%? (e.g. Will this make any difference at all?)

2.) How difficult will it be for a novice to remove the corrector lens and take those bits out myself?

3.) How difficult will it be to for a novice to clean the black thing off the primary mirror?

 

Pics below, and thank you again for your patience with me. FYI - still no word from Jim, but he is probably a busy guy.

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#17 Creedence

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 06:31 PM

Man, that’s a bad run of luck to get things started, I’m sorry you’re having issues. I had something similar with a brand new MEADE SCT. I assume it’s something from the factory rather than from a previous owner. Yours looks similar.

Here’s the thing. You can send this back and be without a scope for a couple more weeks, or you can roll with this for a while. Whatever you do, I do not recommend taking it apart yet. Get familiar, get experienced, get comfortable, and if it’s still bugging you down the road when you understand the ins and outs of collimation, secondary alignment, etc, consider doing the job. These flakes won’t impact views at all, and it does still appear factory-new. The nice thing is, once you do understand the telescope and come to know SCTs well, it’s a very easy job to take them apart, and when you do, it will take nothing at all to blow the chips away. Again, I just wouldn’t do that right now.

Here again though, you didn’t get this at a discount because there were flakes in there so you deserve a perfect product. So if the principle is more important to you than getting to observing, you’re completely within your rights to exchange it. I personally wouldn’t in this instance if all else was correct with the scope.

Edited by Creedence, 18 October 2019 - 06:34 PM.

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#18 Chesterguy1

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:41 PM

This is a conversation you should have had with Scopestuff before hashing it out here in the forums. I have done some ordering from them always with satisfying results.

Grey

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. As the OP stated, they are new to the hobby and only asking whether this condition was to be expected, how best to proceed and whether others had similar experiences (not necessarily with ss). I saw no attempt to malign a company, just a novice seeking advice. I have bought a fair amount of stuff from scopestuff and have found them to be reliable and honest.

 

If you take umbrage at other posters who speculate that it might be a customer return that is understandable, but a poster asks a question and they get responses and hopefully useful advice. Or am I missing something?

 

Chesterguy


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#19 Greyhaven

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 03:44 PM

I understand your concern. New members should be educated in how to approach some topics. I knew some here would offer their opinions on how respond. I feel my advice is sound, productive and positive. It points out the logical first step in solving his issue and would give the merchant opportunity to resolve the issue. Having worked in a warehouse that stocked automotive parts and we would on occasion find a costumer attempting to return their old part as new with the original box in pristine condition yet holding an old part. I'd like to believe we caught them all before they were placed back on the shelf, but I can't be sure. Speculation that used parts being  intentionally  resold as new is the type of mistaken assumption that some readers will remember as a negative against the seller. If you don't point this out to someone when they're new to the hobby at what stage of experience would it be PC to point it out?  After all, as you pointed out " how best to proceed" was in OP. In answer to your question directed to me. I think you may have missed something in my reply.

Grey   



#20 Timmie99

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:05 PM

That happened to me when I purchased my Celestron SCT.  The OTA was filthy and they balked on me returning it until I sent pictures.  I would return the eypiece and buy one somewhere else.



#21 DenaliScope

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:32 AM

UPDATE !!!

I wanted to send an update and give credit where credit was due to the vendors.

 

#1: Jim at ScopeStuff was great and took the time to track down the answer for me. In our first correspondence, he said:

"we don't stock or sell used products"

"the 31.5 is so new that we have not had any returns"

"the "flashlight test" will almost always show "stuff" inside eyepieces"

He offered to trade the eyepiece for another one (at my expense). 

 

After reading his email, I sent him better pictures of the "stuff" and basically asked him, "Please educate a budding astronomer. What ARE all those black things around the edges?"

 

Jim spent the next five days back-and-forth with the folks at Antares. I'm just going to copy/paste the explanation verbatim for anyone else that might have the same question:

 

The center lens group is two lenses joined at the factory with optical cement. The edges of the lenses are blackened, apparently before the lenses are rotationally aligned and cemented together.  The black bits are from the paint that is used to blacken the edges of the glass.

The folks at Antares found what were are talking about, which was hard to find because it's hard to see without magnification.  When the lens is in an assembled eyepiece, the ocular lens magnifies the bits so they are easier to see.  When they were examining the lens group by itself the bits were not very apparent.

The good news is that the bits are not in the light path thru that lens group, and the bits won't move around as they are in the optical cement.  So, the bits won't impact at all the operation of the eyepieces.

 

If I am understanding this all correctly, the things in these pictures are paint. It is always going to be present in this particular series of eyepieces. But there is no reason to return them because they are all like that, and they don't impact the performance of the eyepiece. Issue solved/answered. Thank you, Jim at ScopeStuff!

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Edited by DenaliScope, 27 October 2019 - 09:46 AM.


#22 DenaliScope

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:37 AM

UPDATE !!!

I wanted to send an update and give credit where credit was due to the vendors.

 

#2: OPT

 

OPT didn't hesitate. They immediately contacted Celestron and initiated an RMA return for the scope. Now, while some people may think that returning/replacing an item is a 100% answer, I do not because of all the time & effort it wastes. I waited for the scope, assembled it, found something wrong, boxed it back up, took it to UPS, and now I am waiting for another scope to arrive so that I can do it all over again. Your time is not free.

 

But, in this case, OPT did all that they could under the circumstances because they are selling sealed Celestron telescopes. There is no way for them to check the scopes out before they sell them without breaking the Celestron-marked tape that would basically make them "used". So I am very thankful for the way that OPT immediately took care of this issue, and I cannot think of another way they could have handled it better.

 

As for Celestron, they were very patient with me as it turned out there were other reasons for returning the scope, which I won't get into now. But the answer was always the same, "send it to us and we'll check it out". I will let you know how that all resolves itself later as it is an interesting story, and I still haven't gotten my scope back yet. So it isn't completely "resolved".


Edited by DenaliScope, 27 October 2019 - 09:54 AM.


#23 DenaliScope

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:43 AM

Thank you to everyone that posted. I appreciated all of your comments and advice. I needed a "baseline" to evaluate my products, and that is exactly what you gave me. I have had nothing but good dealings with astronomy vendors (except for a video astronomy vendor, but that is a topic for a different day), and they have all been very knowledgeable and helpful. So far, this hobby seems to be pretty newbie-friendly.

Again, thank you all for your help. I'm sure it won't be the last time I need it, and I truly do appreciate it.


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#24 DenaliScope

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 01:18 PM

Ack! I forgot someone! I also wanted to give a shout out to Gary Russell at Russell Optics! The Russell Optics website wasn't up-to-date regarding what was in-stock and out-of-stock, but Gary was a TREMENDOUS source of knowledge and extremely patient with a new astronomer. I believe he genuinely wants to match the right eyepiece to the right person for the right job instead of up-selling someone on something they do not need for their current goals. Gary was just an all-around gem of a guy, and I really enjoyed talking to him (and giving him my money wink.gif ).


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#25 JIMZ7

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:20 PM

I've returned new 4 telescopes in the past & got a full refund. Eyepieces should be no different. I'm very picky on quality of optics when the money comes from your wallet. But I never had a problem with new eyepieces so I'm very fortunate in that case.

Jim




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