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X10 intelliscope washers for altitude encoder and other than the manual I really don't know what

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#1 TonyCaf

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 07:59 PM

Trying to get an older x10 intelliscope working again. It seems that it is missing the nylon / teflon washers that mount in-between the scope mounts and the encoders are missing are lost. Therefore, the encoder does not turn at the same rate as the scope due to lack of friction. I called Orion about it but before they would give me any information about it they wanted warranty information and this scope has been bought and sold at least twice. A web search shows up very little and other than the manual which does not have any pictures of the washers themselves I have very little to go on short of experimentation which thus far has yielded very mediocre results. Anyone out there know what I am talking about or have any idea how I should proceed? Thanks for even reading this!

 



#2 Berny

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:10 PM

Orion will not sell you parts if you are not the original purchaser. I verified this with them.

I will never purchase anything from them again. frown.gif



#3 TonyCaf

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 04:09 AM

I realized this too when I called asking for parts. I can understand that marketing strategy but do not like it either! The fact remains that if I want the washers I have to spend about 100$ on the entire encoder package and I don't want to have to do that for a simple 50 cent washer! I was thinking of buying some Teflon washer material and cutting my own out. Any ideas other than that?



#4 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 07:31 AM

You might try Sky Watcher,  I've heard they use a similar/identical system. Orion Intelliscope Dobs are made by Synta/Skywatcher.

 

Jon



#5 Jim in PA

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 08:32 AM

TonyCaf,

 

If you are talking about the nylon washers in the pic below, they are 1/16" thick. It appears there's a metal washer in there as well.

 

Washers.JPG

 

Don't know if you've seen the site below, there's some pretty good info on assembling the Intelliscope and some videos linked as well:

 

https://spectrumscie...lescope-part-2/

 

EDIT:  Just watched the Orion assembly video linked in the site above, there isn't a metal washer installed.  Just the nylon washer. I'm thinking just about anything you can get in there that's about 1/16" thick should work? 


Edited by Jim in PA, 18 October 2019 - 08:43 AM.


#6 Sully606

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 01:20 PM

Can you take a picture of what you are talking about? I’d be glad to show you how mine is setup and do any measuring etc.

Sully
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#7 TonyCaf

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 05:30 AM

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I have taken two photographs. The first one is the bearing surface of the telescope where it meets the encoder on the altitude axis. Here it is:

 

The second one is of the encoder itself mounted to the inside of the mount with those two small washers and wood screws just as illustrated earlier in the post. Now I am almost sure that between these two points there is the need for somekind of teflon washer. It seems to me that the recessed circular area on the scope needs to have some kind of washer on it so that it presses on the surface of the encoder making contact with it around the central raised portion. Anyhow thanks for all the help and detailed posts and suggestions. 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Scope Bearing surface.jpg
  • encoder 1.jpg


#8 Jim in PA

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:45 AM

TonyCaf,

 

I don't believe there is a nylon washer that’s supposed to be in the area you’re looking at.  Hopefully Sully can verify that with a pic of his setup.

 

I think you have one of two possible problems:

 

1.  Do you have a black nylon spacer installed on the scope retaining knob (the knob OPPOSITE the controller/encoder side…not the tensioning knob with the white nylon spacer)?  If you do have that black spacer installed, remove it.  It is only used for proper spacing if the Intelliscope encoders are not installed.  If the encoders are installed, remove the spacer.  There should be no spacers or washers on that side.  Just screw the knob in.  On the other side, the encoder side, you should have a white nylon washer and a metal washer on the tensioning knob, which should be tightened first until there is slight tension in the mount.  Then tighten the other knob making sure there’s no washers or spacers installed.

 

Here’s another problem you may be having:

 

2. ( Quoted from T Cambell on another forum):

 

"<Begin Quote>   Problem #2:

.......<snip>.......The optical tube rests on the cradle and is secured by the two knobs. One of those knobs has a pin with another encoder disk. The encoder sensor is attached to the side arm of the cradle support. When the optical tube is moved up or down in altitude, the disk should rotate with the optical tube so that the sensor (fixed to the side of the cradle) can detect how much the scope has been moved in altitude. We found that disk was sticking and failing to rotate. The reason has to do with how it's attached to the pin. There is a "spring clip" on the shaft of the pin (the type that requires spring-clip pliers to spread the tiny holes on the c-clip). It thought there wold be a groove on the shaft to hold the c-clip in position... there is not. It's simply friction holding it in place. Between the c-clip and the encoder disk is a small wavy spring-washer. Over the years of attaching and snugging the optical tube onto the cradle, that clip works it's way down -- compressing the spring washer until it is very tight against the encoder disk and this seizes the encoder disk so that it remains stationary when the optical tube is moved (hence the encoder can't detect that the tube has changed in altitude.)

 

My solution here was to use spring clip pliers to loosen the clip and back it off by a millimeter or two. I also put a tiny amount of powdered graphite (dry lubricant) on to help it rotate more easily -- but before doing this I had to mask the electronics with some masking tape (I did not want the dust of the graphite getting into the electronics). After working in the graphite, I blew off the excess.

The intelliscope now navigates perfectly once again. But I suspect we'll have to watch that c-clip every couple of years and back-it-off with the spring-clip pliers.

Incidentally, the altitude axis encoder has twice jammed up. The first time it happened the scope was still under warranty. We didn't know about the c-clip. When we spoke to Orion on the phone, they just sent us a new encoder assembly and that fixed the problem. Now that the scope is out of warranty, we had to figure out why it had the failure and that's when we discovered the c-clip that slides down the shaft and over-tightens the encoder disk until it can't rotate freely.

 

It's a very simple maintenance task that I suspect many intelliscope owners probably need to do from time to time. I think a small groove on the encoder disk shaft to hold the c-clip in position (so it can't work it's way down the shaft) would be a big improvement."<EndQuote>



#9 Myk Rian

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:20 AM

You can get washers at hardware stores.

Myk

#10 TonyCaf

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:23 AM

OMG I think I have the fasteners on the wrong way around will check and see if this solves problem as per Jims suggestion 1 in Jim's post above....well i did have the fasteners on the wrong way but i also noticed the outer encoder plate was not rotating with the center encoder shaft so i took it all apart and cleaned it. spring clip and all put it back together and it seems to be working. Now i understand the function of clutch side of the encoder. it still seems to me that a one piece encoder shaft wheel would have been a better design with these as the way it is there is room for the encoder wheel to slip on the encoder pin. so now when i go to use it i will first medium tighten the encoder clutch then go to the other side and lock down using the side opposite the encoders to tighten and loosen. Of interest and note...the encoder shaft did have a slot in it and also there was a wavy washer that looked pretty well compressed that sat under the retaining cip on the shaft. I could not see how this spring washer could compress against the encoder disk as the pc waferboard was what it was resting against. Well I'll just have to keep an eyey on it but it appears to be working will keep you updated as it is supposed to ble clear tonight.



#11 Jim in PA

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:32 AM

OMG I think I have the fasteners on the wrong way around will check and see if this solves problem as per Jims suggestion 1 in Jim's post above....well i did have the fasteners on the wrong way but i also noticed the outer encoder plate was not rotating with the center encoder shaft so i took it all apart and cleaned it. spring clip and all put it back together and it seems to be working. Now i understand the function of clutch side of the encoder. it still seems to me that a one piece encoder shaft wheel would have been a better design with these as the way it is there is room for the encoder wheel to slip on the encoder pin. so now when i go to use it i will first medium tighten the encoder clutch then go to the other side and lock down using the side opposite the encoders to tighten and loosen. Of interest and note...the encoder shaft did have a slot in it and also there was a wavy washer that looked pretty well compressed that sat under the retaining cip on the shaft. I could not see how this spring washer could compress against the encoder disk as the pc waferboard was what it was resting against. Well I'll just have to keep an eyey on it but it appears to be working will keep you updated as it is supposed to ble clear tonight.

Glad it seems to be working, let us know how it goes!



#12 TonyCaf

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 12:01 PM

Everyone was so helpful thank you..



#13 TonyCaf

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:44 AM

Ok just a quick update. I tried the scope tonight but the encoder disk was still sticking despite my best efforts. to the rescue superglue. a small amount of superglue on the bearing surface of the encoder disk that mates with the encoder shaft pin was the answer. Now the encoder disk turns with the pin with the lightest of pressure from the tension knob. I havent tried it yet out under the stars but I fully expect it to work



#14 Sully606

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 05:34 AM

Ok just a quick update. I tried the scope tonight but the encoder disk was still sticking despite my best efforts. to the rescue superglue. a small amount of superglue on the bearing surface of the encoder disk that mates with the encoder shaft pin was the answer. Now the encoder disk turns with the pin with the lightest of pressure from the tension knob. I havent tried it yet out under the stars but I fully expect it to work


Glad things turned out ok Tony. Sorry I didn’t get back to the discussion earlier,I had to go out of town for work. I’ll be home on Friday if you need any help.

Sully


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