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Orion 127 MAK marks on/in objective

cassegrain
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#1 cupton

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 08:07 PM

As I was tidying up today after testing a new diagonal and finder scope on my 18 year old Orion Starmax 127 I noticed some marks on the objective at certain angles. Really only seen when a light shines directly on the lens but that has me worried since that’s basically how a telescope works. These marks are either in the coatings or between the glass. Not sure if the objective is one solid lens or two which is why I say “between” but the marks look to be in the middle. I cleaned the outside and even got daring and removed the objective to see if I could clean the inside. Nope! I left it alone once I realized the marks weren’t coming off.

Is this an issue? are the coatings deteriorating after 18 years? I know scopes won’t last forever and coatings do eventually wear off so that’s why I ask.

Here are a couple pics of what I’m seeing. And one showing how it’s nice and clean with no light.

d74db1148f4bc7f4ae58e67d12482180.jpg16bc83a1d70dcad891cb889a6e4b82c7.jpg67aab15f173600b7ec2488d7e2465f13.jpg

#2 Richard O'Neill

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:00 PM

Looks like improper cleaning to me. Try again using Zeiss lens wipes, available at Walmart 's optical dept.


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#3 JamesMStephens

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 09:02 PM

Cupton,

 

The objective is the mirror at the other end of the tube.  The meniscus lens at front is a single element corrector for the spherical aberration of the spherical objective mirror.  From your pictures it's hard to say whether these are smudges--gunk of some sort--on the corrector or you've scratched the coatings in your cleaning attempt (or an earlier one).  It's very possibly gunk, it's easy to spread dirt around when you attempt to clean a surface.  Don't panic.

 

Mirror surfaces may degrade over time, but I don't think anti-reflection lens coatings deteriorate.  They tend to be fragile and easily scratched.

 

Jim


Edited by JamesMStephens, 17 October 2019 - 09:40 PM.

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#4 cupton

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:06 PM

I actually knew the mirror was the objective. I was writing in panic mode and wasn’t thinking. Sorry about that. Today was the 1st time I’ve cleaned it. It sat for years with the front cap on and in its soft bag. It was pretty clean and I only cleaned it when I noticed the smudges. Those did not come off after cleaning. I used the Orion 6 piece cleaning kit I got from Orion with the scope. Maybe I will try the Zeiss wipes if the local Walmart has them.

Ugh. Bad glass on my scope now and a Walmart trip. It just keeps getting better!

Thank you and I appreciate your help!

Edited by cupton, 17 October 2019 - 10:15 PM.

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#5 JamesMStephens

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 10:45 PM

Yep, panic mode happens.  Be gentle with it.  


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#6 Hugh Peck

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Posted 17 October 2019 - 11:06 PM

I actually knew the mirror was the objective. 

A simple mistake since the mirror is usually referred to as the primary. Honestly, I've never heard of it referred to as the objective even though the term is technically correct.  I knew what you meant. 

 

It does indeed look as though it had been cleaned at some point in the past either with a rough cloth or harsh chemical fluid. Or possibly residue that has dried on hard. However, if it's never been cleaned before it shouldn't have any marks, particularly if it's been sitting in a bag for years. 


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#7 Old Man

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 12:01 AM

I think I would try some distilled water with a couple drops of Dawn dish soap, followed by a light rinse of just distilled water and see if that won't clean it. Do not rub real hard. Just use some cotton balls for both and if any water left just blot it with a dry cotton ball or Zeiss opticle tissue. Good luck.

 

          Mike



#8 laixiaolue

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 01:14 AM

Try alcohol. Some marks cannot be cleaned by water or lens cleaner, but easily removed by alcohol. Just apply one drop on the mark and wipe it using a lens wiper to see what happens.


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#9 cupton

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 08:19 AM

Update. But before that, thank you all again for your advice.

 

I had some lens tissues and cloth and did a test with some 70% alcohol. Seemed to help. So, I continued on and did the rest of the glass. I did it in different lighting conditions than yesterday so I dont want to get my hopes up but it does seem way better. There are still some marks and smudges that do look like they are in the glass, but that might just be more smudges that I left behind. I want to see tonight in the same light that I checked yesterday. If its better, I might go pick up those Zeiss wipes and give those a try. Or try again with alcohol and a new fresh set of wipes and cleaning cloth. I do know I need to pick up a lens blower and keep away from that canned air that came in the Orion cleaning kit. I didn't use that yesterday because I read that it can damage with the propellant.

 

Looking at anything under a flashlight will bring out the worst, so I'm not looking for spotless here. But I do know that what I was seeing last night was not a good thing for an optics lens.

 

I would like to think that I left the diagonal out at some point when observing years ago and stuff got inside and its just been sitting there ever since. I would home that it didn't come from Orion that way 18 years ago. Thats a long time and a lot can happen during that time so I'm betting I did something along the way to cause it.

 

Side note. My 127 was always a good size for me and such a fun little scope that even though I've been looking lately at the 150 or 180 MAK's as an upgrade down the road, when I saw the glass last night I  added a replacement 127 into my "wish list" to get immediately. Not looking to replace my 127 with a 150 or 180. I'm looking to add to it. Along with a nice 8-24 Zoom.  ;)



#10 Mike McShan

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 09:47 AM

You might try ROR cleaner that Don Pensack stocks:

 

https://www.eyepiece...ANER_s/1865.htm

 

I’ve used it to get pretty stubborn gunk off of eyepieces and leave the surfaces spotless. 

 

Clear skies, Mike


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#11 Mike McShan

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 10:10 AM

Side note. My 127 was always a good size for me and such a fun little scope that even though I've been looking lately at the 150 or 180 MAK's as an upgrade down the road, when I saw the glass last night I  added a replacement 127 into my "wish list" to get immediately. Not looking to replace my 127 with a 150 or 180. I'm looking to add to it. Along with a nice 8-24 Zoom.  wink.gif

I feel the same way about my 127mm S-W Mak. It makes a great grab n’ go scope that I can carry with one hand but delivers very nice views, even in the city. I have a 7” Mak and 4” refractor, but the 127mm is the one I use for those quick backyard sessions. 

 

Clear skies, Mike


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#12 cupton

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 10:14 AM

You might try ROR cleaner that Don Pensack stocks:

 

https://www.eyepiece...ANER_s/1865.htm

 

I’ve used it to get pretty stubborn gunk off of eyepieces and leave the surfaces spotless. 

 

Clear skies, Mike

Just ordered some on Amazon along with a new air blower and some Zeiss wipes. I'll give it a try. Thanks! Covering all the bases here and will try in baby steps.



#13 Hugh Peck

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 10:25 AM

ROR is really good. It's also safe for camera sensors which is why I have some.


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#14 laixiaolue

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 12:06 PM

Use 99% alcohol or acetone. The point is that you need to be very fast. Apply a drop, wipe it off immediately, otherwise you just move the mark.

 

I have a mirror that can only be cleaned by acetone, I don't know what is the residual on it. Most lens cleaners are useless in this case.


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#15 cupton

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 12:12 PM

I used 70% alcohol this morning. I have a bottle of 91% but was a little nervous to attempt that. And good point about being very fast and wiping immediately. Basically work in small sections and wipe off immediately instead of trying to do the whole piece of glass all at once.  Thank you!


Edited by cupton, 18 October 2019 - 12:27 PM.


#16 JamesMStephens

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 05:36 PM

I used 70% alcohol this morning. I have a bottle of 91% but was a little nervous to attempt that. And good point about being very fast and wiping immediately. Basically work in small sections and wipe off immediately instead of trying to do the whole piece of glass all at once.  Thank you!

This sounds like a recipe to push dirt around and leave smudges.  I think you want to do the opposite (as is recommended for optical cleaning)--make one swipe across the surface and discard the wiping paper.  Make an adjacent pass (unless you can get the whole surface at once) with a fresh piece.


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#17 JamesMStephens

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 06:49 PM

https://www.skyandte...or-your-optics/

 

Don't clean while in panic mode!


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#18 fcathell

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:28 PM

Don't rely on the "flashlight test", it is really excessive and anything that appears on the optical surface under this test is not going to have any noticeable effect on the image quality.

 

Frank


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#19 cupton

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:12 PM

Glass looks so much better than it did. I used the alcohol and also the ROR this afternoon. Thank you for the suggestions. Worked great. I don’t remember it looking this good even new. But that was a long time ago. So in the end I’m happy with the results. I don’t want to over clean so I’m done. Now I don’t have to clean it for another 18 years. ;)

Edited by cupton, 19 October 2019 - 08:13 PM.

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#20 Mike McShan

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:28 PM

I’m glad it worked out — those are great little scopes.

Clear skies, Mike

#21 JamesMStephens

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 09:24 PM

Glass looks so much  than it did. ... Now I don’t have to clean it for another 18 years. wink.gif

Good!




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