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Vintage Nagler's or Explore Scientific 82's

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#1 Neptune

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 01:14 PM

I have a set of vintage Nagler's 9mm, 12mm T2, 16mm T2 & 20mm T2 and 31mm T5. Thinking of jumping ship to the ES line of 82 degree eyepieces, namely the 8.8mm, 11mm, 14mm, 18mm, 24mm and a 40mm 68deg (for max field of view in my C11). I tried the Nagler T6's but really didn't care for them as I had a difficult time with eye placement.  Shorter Eye Relief in an eyepiece has never been a problem for me.  Your thoughts?

David


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#2 SeattleScott

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 01:27 PM

I picked up a 7T1 and 9T1 once. I found the 9 noticeably dim compared to a 8LVW so I replaced it with a Meade 8.8. The 7T1 compared well in brightness to the 8LVW so it has stayed. Maybe the coatings were a bit worn off on the 9mm? In terms of sharpness the 9T1 and Meade 8.8 were about equal.

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#3 Hugh Peck

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 02:25 PM

Had a 9T1 and didn't like it. Replaced it with the ES 8.8. Big improvement.


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#4 SteveG

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 02:34 PM

The 12, 16, 20 and 31 you already have will outperform the ES equivalents.


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#5 earlyriser

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 02:36 PM

I can confirm the 31mm T5 is better corrected than the ES82 30mm. 


Edited by earlyriser, 18 October 2019 - 02:37 PM.


#6 nicoledoula

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 03:07 PM

The 12, 16, 20 and 31 you already have will outperform the ES equivalents.

Not so sure about that (as eye placement problems were already explained by the OP) but definitely keep the 31 T5



#7 SeattleScott

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 03:58 PM

The eye placement issues were noted for the T6s. Presumably OP doesn’t have these issues with the T2s that he has long been using.

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#8 Neptune

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 04:15 PM

Yes, no real eye placement issues with the T2's and the 9T1.  Now the 13mm T1 is a very different story (it was sold). I only recently bought the older Naglers on a wim as they where so cheap.  I have not thuroughly tested them with my 11" f10 SCT. My preliminary finding are they perform very well, they are very sharp across the whole field (which they should be at f10).  I may have noticed some reflections off my eye in the 16mm. Don't get me wrong, I like them but the ES group would fill out my personal requirements for magnification range just a little better than the Nagler's. Not  a deal breaker just wondering how they compare against each other.



#9 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 18 October 2019 - 04:59 PM

If you have eye relief/eye placement issues with the T-6s, the ES 82s in the those focal lengths will be worse since their actual eye relief is less than the T-6s.

 

Jon


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#10 Neptune

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:09 AM

Had a 9T1 and didn't like it. Replaced it with the ES 8.8. Big improvement.

I find that out of all the original Nagler T1's the 9mm is my least favorite after the 13mm. The rest are wonderful.

 

The 12, 16, 20 and 31 you already have will outperform the ES equivalents.

I have read this before in these forums, but just wanted to make sure.

 

I can confirm the 31mm T5 is better corrected than the ES82 30mm. 

5 years ago I did a side by side test of these very two with a TEC140. I kept the 31mm Nagler.

 

Not so sure about that (as eye placement problems were already explained by the OP) but definitely keep the 31 T5

The 31mm Nagler is one of the best eyepieces I have ever used, my only fault is it's a little long on eye relief.

 

If you have eye relief/eye placement issues with the T-6s, the ES 82s in the those focal lengths will be worse since their actual eye relief is less than the T-6s.

 

Jon

It was never an issue with to short eye relief with the T6's. It was more an issue of, I like to push my eye against the rubber eye cup. In doing so, I actually get to close and have issues with black outs. I grew up with Kellner's and Orthos that had VERY short eye relief.



#11 Neptune

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:15 AM

As a side note: One evening I compared a 20mm T2 against a 21mm Ethos.  I found the Ethos would reveal ever so slightly fainter stars. They where very close in performance. Like many others, I really like the 20mm T2.



#12 Spikey131

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 07:40 AM

Any move from a 31 T5 will be a downgrade.

 

Get an eyecup extender.  Works great.


Edited by Spikey131, 19 October 2019 - 07:44 AM.

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#13 25585

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 11:02 AM

Try an Orion Lanthanum LHD 80° https://www.telescop...yepiece/268.uts

 

I find the 14mm & 20mm, both 2", very good. Long Perng, Taiwan. 



#14 Spartinix

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:05 PM

Replacing that TVN20t2 for a TVE21 or APM20 or ES17-92 is one thing, but not for an ES20-100 and certainly not for an ES18-82. The TVN20t2 is a one of a kind performer I regret selling, even having the TVE21 now..think about that. None of us should have all of our ep's one brand too.. That's just ocd really.

Edited by Spartinix, 19 October 2019 - 01:08 PM.

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#15 Ronofthedead07

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:12 PM

The eye placement problems in the T6 Naglers are probably due to the undersized eyeguards. You can get a Dioptrx adapter for the T6s that fit the eyeguards from the larger Naglers. The ES 82s have the better eyeguards but noticeably shorter eye relief than the other Naglers (except maybe the 16T2). They are great eyepieces if you don't mind shoving your whole face in to get the full field. They all have more recessed lenses than the Naglers so the stated eye relief values are overstated by a few millimeters. On the flip side, I've used the 7T6, 13T6 and 20T2 and never had any eye placement issues. I could see the whole field, I just didn't like having to clean eyelash goo off the lenses every time I used them. I used the 6.7 and 8.8mm ES 82s and had the same issues, but it was more difficult to see the field stop. The 30mm ES 82, on the other hand, has such a deeply recessed lens that you can't get close enough to it to see the whole field, except with the eyeguard folded down.

 

Eye relief issues aside, the ES 82s are excellent optically. I even thought the 6.7mm ES 82 offered a better view than the 7mm T6 Nagler.


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#16 25585

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:29 PM

Replacing that TVN20t2 for a TVE21 or APM20 or ES17-92 is one thing, but not for an ES20-100 and certainly not for an ES18-82. The TVN20t2 is a one of a kind performer I regret selling, even having the TVE21 now..think about that. None of us should have all of our ep's one brand too.. That's just ocd really.

Do not confuse ES92s with any 82s of any make, the 92s are far superior, not just AFoV but for view, performance, and comfort.


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#17 Spartinix

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 01:56 PM

Do not confuse ES92s with any 82s of any make, the 92s are far superior, not just AFoV but for view, performance, and comfort.


I do not, they are next on my 'purchase list' to compare to my current ep's.
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#18 Neptune

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:27 PM

... None of us should have all of our ep's one brand too.. That's just ocd really.

Guilty as Charged.  I am looking for a full set of 6 or 7 eyepieces, all of the same type/name with a focal length of 9mm to about 45mm.  Very hard to do.



#19 nicoledoula

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 05:44 PM

Guilty as Charged.  I am looking for a full set of 6 or 7 eyepieces, all of the same type/name with a focal length of 9mm to about 45mm.  Very hard to do.

41 Pan, 31 T5, 21 Ethos, more Ethos down to 8mm. Glad to help :)  



#20 Neptune

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Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:29 PM

41 Pan, 31 T5, 21 Ethos, more Ethos down to 8mm. Glad to help smile.gif  

Yes, just missing the 41mm Pan...  The 8mm might be to much magnification 350x.

Attached Thumbnails

  • Ethos & Nagler set.jpg

Edited by Neptune, 19 October 2019 - 08:31 PM.

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#21 rkelley8493

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:28 AM

The 8.8 82º is a really nice eyepiece that I regret selling. I forget why I even let it go.. It actually had a brighter, sharper image than the ES 9mm 100º [in my 10" SCT].

Some say the 11mm is the best of the 1.25" ES 82's, but I've never tried it. I did try the 18mm, and I had no love for it whatsoever. Just wasn't my style at all. However, others love it and say it's one of the best of the 82º line. I just couldn't get into it [personal preferences]. 

I did like the 24mm 82º. It was actually the first ES 82º that I purchased. It's very well built, similar to the 26T5 Nagler.

I had some issues with eye placement on the 40mm 68º. It has an eye relief of 31mm, but I found it to be too much of a good thing... Suffered terribly from blackouts. 

As always, your mileage may vary. This was just my experience. 


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#22 earlyriser

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 08:39 AM

Yes, just missing the 41mm Pan...  The 8mm might be to much magnification 350x.

Looks like you are pretty well set for eyepieces. Why the interest in ES82? I've owned the ES82 8.8 and 14mm. The eye relief was too tight for my tastes, so I sold them off. If you prefer tight ER, they might be right for you. 


Edited by earlyriser, 20 October 2019 - 08:40 AM.


#23 Neptune

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:22 AM

Looks like you are pretty well set for eyepieces. Why the interest in ES82? I've owned the ES82 8.8 and 14mm. The eye relief was too tight for my tastes, so I sold them off. If you prefer tight ER, they might be right for you. 

These larger eyepieces really throw off the balance on the 11" SCT and more importantly,I was just itch'in to try some new eyepieces and then there is that pestering obsession to try and get a full set of perfect eyepieces for me and my current scope.

 

As for eye relief, one of my favorite eyepieces is/was the 15mm Panoptic. Most find it very short on eye relief being only 10mm.

 

I really wanted to like the Pentax XW'S, but found that they just didn't play nice in my 11 HD. The stars where blotted starting about 75% out from the center.

 

Being on this forum is a blessing and a curse. I have purchased full or partial sets of Plossl's, Ethos, vintage Nagler's,  Delite's and a smattering of Delos' and Explore 100 Degree.    I just need to whittle it down to ONE final set and then get back to actually using them out doors under our new home skies in GA!


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#24 Spartinix

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 09:48 AM

Then sell the Ethe, get all the ES82's, ES92's, the ES68-40 and observe. Easy huh :p.

#25 rkelley8493

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 12:44 PM

..

Being on this forum is a blessing and a curse. I have purchased full or partial sets of Plossl's, Ethos, vintage Nagler's,  Delite's and a smattering of Delos' and Explore 100 Degree.    I just need to whittle it down to ONE final set and then get back to actually using them out doors under our new home skies in GA!

Welcome to the Southeast FarmerRon.gif


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