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Eyepicies for deepskybinoviewing

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#1 Yodadonkie

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 02:09 AM

Dear Astronomers,

 

for deepskybinoviewing are the 35mm eudiascopics good with a baader mark V?

My telescope is a Meade lx 90 10 inch

 

i already have a baader maxbright with baader zooms for planets and moon.But for deepsky

and for a maximum field of view i think its better with the eudiascopics and the baader mark v,

because the baader mark v has 30 mm prisms and the maxbright only 23.

 

Of is it better with the 21d eyepicies for deepsky?

 

Thanks for advice and response,greetings from Belgium👍

 

 

 

 



#2 Yodadonkie

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 07:39 AM

Maybe can Eddgie give me some advice ✌️



#3 bigdob24

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:28 AM

24 Panoptics are hard to beat with my Denks and a power switch , like 3 pairs of eyepieces.

I use them for deep sky and solar.

Lots to choose from and it’s defiantly a personal choice .

Any starparties in your area that you can maybe try some in your scope?

BD 



#4 Yodadonkie

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 08:40 AM

Hello Bigdob24,

 

i have been thinking about the denkmeier with the  powerswitch,but the denkmeier have 27mm prism against the baader 

mark V 30 mm.

Can you see the diference about these two or not?

With my telescope (lx90-10 inch) how is the true vield of view with the denkmeier and the 24 m panoptics?

I think the baader with these 35 m eudiascopics gives me the widest views,i supose(0,8 degrees?)

PS:With magnifications do you become with your 24 panoptics and the powerswitch ?


Edited by Yodadonkie, 21 October 2019 - 08:42 AM.


#5 Eddgie

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:32 PM

Maybe can Eddgie give me some advice ✌️

I wish I wound't but I can't help myself.. LOL.

 

I have owned both the Mark V and Binotron, and I have used both the 35mm and various 20mm wide field eyepieces (D21 and ES24).

 

The 35s have their place but in my own opinion that is when the scope is an SCT or MCT, and the goal is to get a larger exit pupil or when the goal is to have a lot of eye relief (glasses). 

 

Otherwise, I felt like the wide fields gave a more pleasing view.

 

In the dob, I preferred the D21s over the 24s because in my heavily light polluted skies, the 24s showed some visible sky darkening (vignetting) out towards the edge.  I do not think it is some fluke that Denk sells the D21s. I think that they give the best balance of field characteristics when used in a faster dob.   In slower refractors working at native focal length, the 24mm wide fields gave the most pleasing view.

 

I pretty much only used the 35s in in the EdgeHD to try to eek out a bit more brightness. 

 

(Also, critical to note, that if the skies are moderately dark, the heavy illumination falloff of the Binotron in low power mode when used with 24mm wide fields is difficult to see.  Under brighter skies though, I could see the vignetting at the edge of the field in the 24s and worse in the 35s.  Now the threshold as to where that vignetting becomes troublesome is totally observer dependent.  I really hate fields with easily visible vignetting. Most others may not be quite as sensitive to it as I am, but under light polluted skies, it detracts from my viewing pleasure.)   


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#6 Eddgie

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:34 PM

And even in the SCT, I rarely used the 35s.. The 24s were simply more pleasing to me.   Again, totally subjective but I liked the wider and more immersive apparent true field and the difference in true field was not slight, and not so important to me.


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#7 Jeff B

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 02:23 PM

Dear Astronomers,

 

for deepskybinoviewing are the 35mm eudiascopics good with a baader mark V?

My telescope is a Meade lx 90 10 inch

 

i already have a baader maxbright with baader zooms for planets and moon.But for deepsky

and for a maximum field of view i think its better with the eudiascopics and the baader mark v,

because the baader mark v has 30 mm prisms and the maxbright only 23.

 

Of is it better with the 21d eyepicies for deepsky?

 

Thanks for advice and response,greetings from Belgium

All very good questions and very good experience relayed by Eddgie (as usual).

 

My experiences are similar but also a bit different as I've different preferences and priorities.  I also have to mention that I chronically use slower refractors and reflectors (F7 and higher).  

 

The 35mm eudiascopics will give you the max real FOV available in the 1/25" eyepiece format.  However:

 

1. They have an AFOV of about 49-50 degrees

2. They require a hefty 12-15mm of extra in-travel to reach focus, relative to a good Plossl or Denk 21 LOA Neutrals (more on them later).

3. I can see vignetting in them with my Denk viewers, only a little with my Mark V (28mm inlet aperture) and basically none with the Zeiss viewer offered by Denis Levatic which has a 30mm inlet aperture.

4. With the low magnification, you have a larger exit pupil which can be a mixed blessing if you have some eye aberrations. 

 

There are other eyepieces though which trade off focal length, eye relief, and AFOV, but still give you close to max FOV possible in this format.  A 24mm FL has higher magnification, mitigates the potential exit pupil issues to a degree, and dims the background a little, all of which helps to better show dimmer stars.  A great example is the Pan 24.  But there are others too.  I personally had hard times with my 24 Pans when I had pairs of them a couple of times.  While sharp, I found the combinations of eye relief and eye positioning to get the full FOV uncomfortable.  And then there were those stoopid undercuts.  And then there was the price.  I much prefer my APM 24mm Ultra Flats.  They are big and heavy but I am nicely surprised as to how comfortable they are for me and how sharp they are.  Very well made too.  NO UNDERCUTS.  Did I mention they were big and heavy?

 

But one of my favorite deep sky eyepieces are the Denk 21 & 32 LOA "Neutrals", especially the 21mm.   I find them very well made, sharp, low scatter, a very nice 65 degree AFOV for the 21 mm (about 49 degress for the 32),  in-travel similar to my Plossls and NO UNDERCUTS.  Also, very reasonable in price too for a high end eyepiece.  

 

And then there is the 28mm Edmund RKE.....

 

Jeff


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#8 bigdob24

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 04:26 PM

Dear Astronomers,

 

for deepskybinoviewing are the 35mm eudiascopics good with a baader mark V?

My telescope is a Meade lx 90 10 inch

 

i already have a baader maxbright with baader zooms for planets and moon.But for deepsky

and for a maximum field of view i think its better with the eudiascopics and the baader mark v,

because the baader mark v has 30 mm prisms and the maxbright only 23.

 

Of is it better with the 21d eyepicies for deepsky?

 

Thanks for advice and response,greetings from Belgium

As you can see everyone has there favorites for different reasons.

Being in Belgium not sure how the astronomy suppliers operate but here there are companies that give a 30 day return policy, I have a pair of 10mm APM eyepieces that I’m trying out now and still undecided. Need a good day for solar viewing.

I guess I’m saying, nothing like trying different eyepieces in your equipment thru your eyes.

I had my eyepiece selection figured out for my Quark, now I’m getting another set for higher magnification with my Lunt LS100THA.

You’ll find your perfect pair.

BD


Edited by bigdob24, 21 October 2019 - 04:26 PM.

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#9 25585

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 04:28 PM

Dear Astronomers,

 

for deepskybinoviewing are the 35mm eudiascopics good with a baader mark V?

My telescope is a Meade lx 90 10 inch

 

i already have a baader maxbright with baader zooms for planets and moon.But for deepsky

and for a maximum field of view i think its better with the eudiascopics and the baader mark v,

because the baader mark v has 30 mm prisms and the maxbright only 23.

 

Of is it better with the 21d eyepicies for deepsky?

 

Thanks for advice and response,greetings from Belgium

The 35mm Eudiascopics are what Baader used to sell with the Mk V binoviewer. They are very good for binoviewing.



#10 25585

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 04:37 PM

Earlier Celestron Ultimas did not have undercuts. I use Takahashi 28mm 60° Erfles for binoviewing which have no undercuts. They have the same true field of view and slightly less magnification than current 24mm 68° ones. Decent eye relief for wearing glasses if you need to.

 

For less money, but with undercuts, are 26mm Explore Scientific 62° eyepieces, about the same TFOV also as 24mm 68°.

 

 


Edited by 25585, 21 October 2019 - 04:43 PM.


#11 Allan Wade

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 07:42 AM

The D21’s are one of the few eyepieces I’ve owned that I really disliked. I bought them based on so many good reports but I found them to be poorly corrected and the barrel design not particularly comfortable. So I jumped in and bought a pair of 24 Pans and they were like a revelation by comparison. The taper design makes them very comfortable to use and in my Denk Binotron, stars are sharp across the field. I couldn’t sell the D21’s quick enough.

 

I still use the 24 Pans as my widest field pair in the my binoviewer and binoscopes, and rate them very highly.



#12 vkhastro1

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 07:53 AM

The Zeiss 25mm long eye relief 3 element Aspheric eyepieces are amazing, especially in APO refractors !

The larger the AFOV, the better !



#13 Yodadonkie

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 09:09 AM

You guys are amazing bow.gif

Thank you al for so much information and details.Its difficult to choose but i have timegrin.gif

I believe i going for the 21 or 24 eyepieces.

For the binoviewers am not sure witch one to choose.The binotron have a powerswitch that makes 1 eyepiece

have 3 magnifications.

Can anyone tell me what magnifications a have with the 21D or 24 panoptics with a powerswitch?

For me its important to have a binoviewer with more tfov that i only use for deepskyobjects and the other one i use for moon and

planets(thats my baader maxbright 1 with 2 baader zooms).

Clear skies to everyone,thankswaytogo.gif

 



#14 Eddgie

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 09:56 AM

Hello Yodadonkie,

The magnification of the Binotron will depend to some extent on the configuration but it will not very much.

 

The powerswitch pretty much mandates the use of the OCS, which behaves like a Barlow, and like a Barlow, the more space between the lens and the focal plane, the higher the magnification. 

 

When used in a refractor with a standard 2" diagonal, the OCS is screwed into the filter threads on the diagonal nose piece and the BV is used in the normal manner with a 2" nose piece inserted into the eyepiece holder. In this configuration, the powers of the power switch will be 1.4x, 2.4x, and 3.1x 

 

If you have a 2" diagonal with a nose that attaches with an M48 thread, that nose can be removed and the OCS can be screwed on to the front of the mirror box, and in this configuration, the power switch positions will give 1.3x, 2.3x and 3x.

 

Likewise, when the binoviewer is used with a Newtonian, the power factors will be determined by how much (if any) you need to extend the Newtonian Extension tube to reach focus.  With no extension, the powers will be 1.3x, 2.3x, and 3x, but most mass produced Dobs will not be able to reach focus with the stock focuser with the extension tube in its shortest position.   If you have to extend the tube to reach focus in low power, that will raise the magnification and 25mm of extension (which is probably about right for most mass produced scopes) will raise the powers to 1.4x, 2.4x and 3.1x.

 

For refractors and slower dobs, you can get buy with the 37mm OCS, but my advice would be to always get the 45mm OCS and with fast Dobs, it is really kind of important to use the 45mm or you can be working with an aperture loss in low power mode. Even with the 45mm, you can loose some aperture with very fast systems, but the loss will typically be minor and it is a good tradeoff for the lower power you can get, but I highly recommend that the 45mm OCS be used for  

reflectors f/5 and faster.  Also, if you sell, the 37mm is not going to limit your market opportunity.   Bottom line, whether you think you need it or not, I recommend the larger OCS. 

 

And last but not least, if you are going to work with a refractor and only a refractor or SCT, there is another option you should consider!

 

Denkmeier also sells power switch diagonals and this has many benefits over using a standard diagonal.

Now the nice things about the power switch diagonal is that it allows the use of any binoviewer and when used without the binoviewer and the OCA, you can put a 2" eyepiece holder on to the system and now have three powers with one eyepiece.  Unlike the very small clear aperture in the binoviewer power switch, which can only be used with the binoviewer, the power switch diagonal has a much larger aperture on the lenses so if you use it with all by the longest focal length eyepieces, without vignetting.

 

So, it is an option that most people don't consider because they want the ability to use it in any telescope, but if you are a refractor or SCT guy, it is a very important option.

Here, you would not be affected by resale, because if you used a non Denk BV, you could sell the BV on its own, and you could sell the Power Switch Diagonal on its own and since you could use any BV you wanted, you have a lot of flexibility. 

 

If I were only using it in refractors or SCTs, I would just but the R1 power switch diagonal and a binoviewer like the new Maxbright II or something like the BVs Dennis sells.  That is because resale on these will be better than if you just tried to sell a Binotron A la carte.  Best resale on the Binotron is when it is a system with 45mm OCS.

 

 

.


Edited by Eddgie, 22 October 2019 - 09:57 AM.


#15 Yodadonkie

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Posted 22 October 2019 - 10:16 AM

So, it is an option that most people don't consider because they want the ability to use it in any telescope, but if you are a refractor or SCT guy, it is a very important option.
Here, you would not be affected by resale, because if you used a non Denk BV, you could sell the BV on its own, and you could sell the Power Switch Diagonal on its own and since you could use any BV you wanted, you have a lot of flexibility. 
 
If I were only using it in refractors or SCTs, I would just but the R1 power switch diagonal and a binoviewer like the new Maxbright II or something like the BVs Dennis sells.  That is because resale on these will be better than if you just tried to sell a Binotron A la carte.  Best resale on the Binotron is when it is a system with 45mm OCS.

@Eddgie:thats a great optionbow.gif

 

So a new Baader Maxbright with the power switch diagonal is a great combo to.And it have alsoo

3 magnifications.

So I think that the 21D eyepieces better work with these combo?


Edited by Yodadonkie, 22 October 2019 - 10:22 AM.


#16 Eddgie

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 04:11 PM

So, it is an option that most people don't consider because they want the ability to use it in any telescope, but if you are a refractor or SCT guy, it is a very important option.
Here, you would not be affected by resale, because if you used a non Denk BV, you could sell the BV on its own, and you could sell the Power Switch Diagonal on its own and since you could use any BV you wanted, you have a lot of flexibility. 
 
If I were only using it in refractors or SCTs, I would just but the R1 power switch diagonal and a binoviewer like the new Maxbright II or something like the BVs Dennis sells.  That is because resale on these will be better than if you just tried to sell a Binotron A la carte.  Best resale on the Binotron is when it is a system with 45mm OCS.

@Eddgie:thats a great optionbow.gif

 

So a new Baader Maxbright with the power switch diagonal is a great combo to.And it have alsoo

3 magnifications.

So I think that the 21D eyepieces better work with these combo?

The D21s are good when the scope is very fast, but for a refractor or SCT, I would lean toward a pair of ES 24 wide fields or Panoptics or some other good wide field. Not that the D21s are bad. They are pretty good actually, but for the money, I think a pair of ES 68s is hard to beat if you have the IPD for them. The Pans simply have better IPD but it is a lot of extra money.. If you need the IPD though, the D21s and Pans are really hard to beat.  The D21s though have a noticeably smaller true field.  The field stop is (as I recall) 24.7mm while the ES 68s have 27.2mm (10% larger field) and better edge correction.  

 

But yes the power switch diagonal is not something most people consider because it is expensive, but then you get to turn one pair of eyepieces into 3 pairs of eyepieces, and if you are going to need a Barlow anyway, 1.3x sounds pretty good vs 2x. 

 

And lets be clear on resale.  You always loose money on resale.  The difference here though is that you have a bigger potential market if you are selling them as two items and because you get to pick the BV you want to use, you can get buy with a used Denk BV body only that has already been pretty much fully depreciated.  Still, that is going to set you back a grand if you buy the power switch diagonal new and to go full circle, I have seen used B27s sell for $900.   

 

So, do yourself a favor and look at resale prices and kind of get a feel for where you would be.  I think the R1 is a better option for SCT and refractor usage though because the power switch on the bioviewer is only about 25mm at the front and the diagonal has very large lenses. 

 

If you can snag a used R1 though, that might put you in a good place if use an inexpensive binoviewer.


Edited by Eddgie, 24 October 2019 - 04:47 PM.

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#17 Yodadonkie

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 09:11 AM

Thanks,Eddgiebow.gif

 

So,if a may ask,with magnifications do I become in my telescope (lx 90,10 inch)with the powerswitch and the ES 24mm 68°?(with the new baader maxbright)

 

Which 3 focal lengths do I become?

 

With the panoptics is it the same,a supose?

This combination is only for deepsky objects,not for planets or moon

Thanks for advice


Edited by Yodadonkie, 25 October 2019 - 09:14 AM.


#18 Eddgie

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 11:23 AM

Without an OCS, there may be some aperture loss with binoviewers, but this may not be a bad compromize to having the much wider true field.

 

If you are only using it in an SCT, you would get the S2.  The S2 gives .66X, 1.15X and 2X. The S2 is much less expensive than the R1 but it does not include the OCS so would not work in a refractor with a binoviewer.

If memory serves me correctly, the R1 gives 1.3x, 2.3x, and 3x. Now the S2 and R1 are essentially the same thing, but the biggest difference is that the R1 includes the OCS. If you use it in an SCT though, without the OCS, it gives about the same powers as the S2 and with the OCS, a bit more than the 1.3x, 2.3x and 3x.   

 

Denk has all of this on their web page. 

Yeah, for people that don't think they will ever have a Dob, the power switch diagonal and an a la carte binoviewer makes a a lot of sense. 

There is also the R2 diagonal.   This thing gives something like six different powers with Binoviewer, and seven different mags with a standard eyepiece! Heavy and expensive though, but for just binoviewing, I think the R1 is a better deal.  You can get too granular with the R2, and the R1 has three very nice power steps.  And if it is just for SCT, the S1 is a lot cheaper. 

 

I mentioned it only because it is almost entirely overlooked on the binoviewer forum.  There are a lot of nice Non-Denk binoviewers out there (Dennis sells some lovely BVs) and some of these larger prism units would actually work better with the power switch diagonal because they have much better field illumination than the binoviewer only power switches. 

 

Yeah, teaming the new large aperture import bino or the Max II with a R1 for SCT and refractor usage to me is a very good option.  


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#19 Yodadonkie

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 12:26 PM

Okay,I let you now wen I have my setup.Its not for now but with a couple of months,maybe my own Christmas presentgrin.gif

When I have my first seeings a write it down herewaytogo.gif

Its curious how these combo.s evolve with some good advice from Eddgie.He’s definitely a binoman/expertwink.gif

Greetings to al of you,from Belgium,Yodadonkiebow.gif



#20 Yodadonkie

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 10:11 AM

I,am back againgrin.gif

I have another question:

Can I take the baader zooms in the power switch to?

En if I can,witch magnifications do I become,let’s say white the new baader maxbright.



#21 Eddgie

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 04:10 PM

Yes, indeed you can!

 

In fact, I used the Hyperion zooms in my Binotron exclusively for planetary observing.   In my 12" dob, I had from 85x to 550x depending on which arm of the power switch was used.

 

Most of the time, I went with the arms out, which gave something like 140x to 440x (I forget, but something like that) but when seeing was excellent, I used the high power arm and could get up to 560x.

 

So, you absolutely can use them and they work great for getting just the right magnification for seeing.

 

Power factor would be about 1.3x, 2.3x and 3x so just multiply the zoom setting by the number that corresponds to the power switch arm being used.


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#22 Yodadonkie

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 12:05 AM

Thanks for this great advice,Eddgiebow.gif

Let it be christmas nowgrin.gif



#23 k5apl

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:26 PM

I just finished observing a few nights with my Baader Mark V binoviewers and my 92mm refractor.  I also agree that the 24mm Panoptics are great in this setup.  I also observe with 25mm Sterling Plossl's that are much less expensive and give almost the same performance.  I use them also at shorter FLs for more power.  My favorite high power eyepieces are 7mm Abbe Orthos with volcano top.

 

I need to us the 1.7X GlasPath corrector to reach focus in my refractor.  I have tried Hyperions in the past, but they were too bulky and heavy for my taste.  Sorry I have not tried other eyepieces in this thread in my binoviewer.  The

main trouble with my binoviewer is I have to buy two identical eyepieces. LOL.


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#24 Yodadonkie

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Posted 28 October 2019 - 04:17 AM

For me are the baader zooms great because I can switch the magnification whatever the seeing it will be.I have not to play with switching the eyepiece when I have on that moment a good seeiing.

Because when a switching the eyepiece,the good seeiing on that moment will be past away.

Thats for me frustrated,so the zooms are a perfect match.

Therefor I buy another binoviewer ,so I have many magnifications with the zooms.

The maxbright with zooms and barlows,and another bino with normal zooms.

For high magnification for planets and moon I take the zooms with the barlows (3,6-10,5mm)

So I only have to switch whites 2 binoviewers,and I have about 10 magnifications.

Eddgie gives me great ideas for my second binoviewer,so at the moment it is a brainbreaker for megrin.gif


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