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10u capacity: how bad of an idea is it?

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#1 Raginar

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 01:36 AM

Gents,

 

    I own a 14" RCX400.  It's heavy and it sits in its box most of the year because my back doesn't want to deadlift it onto the tripod for a night of viewing.  I've found some good tutorials on deforking the OTA from the forks; based on some research and interpolation, I think it will weigh about 65-70ish pounds with a dovetail/diagonal/eyepiece.  Now the question:

 

How bad is it to overclock your mount?  My 1000HPS is rated for 55 lbs.  I'm talking about 10-15 lbs 'extra' plus the counterweights required to balance it.  Any ideas on how terrible this could be for my baby?  I'm not concerned with if it can image; I really just like this scope for visual use and maybe planetary. 

 

Second and third order effects would be nice.  I'm sure she can do it; just what kind of risk (second/third order effects) am I taking by doing this would be awesome.

 

Thanks!

 

Chris

 



#2 macdonjh

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 05:34 AM

If your RCX is well balanced on your 10u mount I doubt you'll damage anything.  If the 10u has stepper motors you might see the motors stepping- little jerks in the view at high magnification.  If possible, you should reduce the slew speed of your mount.  My G11 is at its capacity and I have the slew speed set to less than half it's maximum (600 out of 1600, I think).  If you don't have the ability to control the slew speed, you may eventually burn out a motor.  

 

Balance will be the critical issue.



#3 Raginar

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 06:04 AM

You can control slew speed and that’s what was recommended with a C14. They also discussed it wouldn’t be usable in wind most likely(unstable).

Chris

#4 macdonjh

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 12:55 PM

You can control slew speed and that’s what was recommended with a C14. They also discussed it wouldn’t be usable in wind most likely(unstable).

Chris

I get that.  One reason mounts get bigger as rated capacity increases is because the main gears get larger in diameter to increase their capability to resist torque imposed by the scope (bigger diameter gear means a longer moment arm which increases moment/ torque with the same resisting force).

 

Good luck.  



#5 rgsalinger

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 03:20 PM

The first thing I would do is to call your 10micron dealer and discuss it. The last thing that I would do is to listen to anyone who does not own one and encourages you to exceed the manufacturers recommended rating. On the other hand, it's fun to take risks.

Rgrds-Ross


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#6 Raginar

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 06:26 PM

RG,

 

    Yea, I talked to Ed and read an old thread where Ed talked about using a C14.  He said he can't recommend it but that it would work for visual.  I'm looking for outside opinions.



#7 EFT

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:40 PM

I'm not so sure that is wasn't "should work" rather than "would work."  I will generally not advocate overloading a mount.  Within reason, the mount will probably still work but performance may be degraded.  Again within reason, you would probably not do damage as long as you are well balanced and slow down maximum slewing speeds.  The problem comes when people overload a mount and expect it to still perform since that will probably work with a premium mount to some extent but very often not with a non-premium mount that may be overrated in the first place.



#8 EFT

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 08:44 PM

Something else to keep in mind with any mount, but especially with premium mounts, is that this is technically misusing the equipment which can result in voiding the warranty or at least not having some issues covered by the warranty.  I have never had to deal with this issue, but that is what I would expect a manufacturer to do since their specifications and instructions specifically state the capacity of the mount.


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#9 psandelle

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 09:29 PM

I love my 10Microns, and it’s my opinion that the best way to use that scope is to sell the 1000 and buy a 2000. Win-win!

 

Paul


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#10 Raginar

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Posted 23 October 2019 - 10:59 PM

Yea, that's what I figured.  Maybe I'll take it apart and see what it weighs.  I have a really hard time believing this thing is heavier than a normal steel tube LX200GPS.

 

Thanks guys!  I appreciate the honest feedback :).

 

Chris


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#11 EFT

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 02:42 AM

Didn't the RCX400 have some kind of weird front corrector and secondary focuser, or am I thinking of something else?  I know that OTA was a lot different from the more standard SCT so there likely is something that accounts for the weight but if is something that can be changed, it's hard to say.

 

A C14HD weighs 46 pounds and a Meade ACF14 weighs 57 pounds.  It's a bit hard to imagine what all they might have put in there to increase the weight by up to another 18 pounds.  But that huge front cell and focuser? assembly might add a lot of weight.  Depending on how much, it is not unheard of for Meade to place some additional weight in the tail of an OTA to balance it would (e.g., the old Meade Maks).


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#12 Arie

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:00 AM

You only have to ratchet the worms once .  . . . . . 


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#13 Raginar

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 03:02 AM

Yea, supposedly based on a thread here, it is just heavier than a 14" LX200ACF.  It does have an electronic focuser; the tube is carbon fiber and there is definitely more 'plastic' than you'd think.

 

I think I'll take her apart and just see how bad it is.  Worst case scenario, it ends up sitting in a smaller box instead of in a giant box :D.

 

Chris


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#14 Woodbridge_Dave

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 07:07 AM

Not to derail the topic, but I’m curious why you want to use a 10u for just visual use ?  Why not keep the RCX on its AltAz mount ?



#15 psandelle

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 09:39 AM

Worst case scenario, it ends up sitting in a smaller box instead of in a giant box laugh.gif.

 

Chris

Sometimes that is a worthwhile end unto itself. grin.gif

 

Paul


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#16 spokeshave

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 10:42 AM

You only have to ratchet the worms once .  . . . . . 

Not only that, 10u uses servo motors that can be damaged when stalled unless overcurrent protection is built into the control firmware (I don't know if 10u does that or not).

 

Tim


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#17 Raginar

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 06:42 PM

Not to derail the topic, but I’m curious why you want to use a 10u for just visual use ?  Why not keep the RCX on its AltAz mount ?

Mainly to make it more likely to be used.  Carrying a 70 lb tube is 'easier' than lifting that awkward thing onto a tripod at 125 lbs.  At least that's the idea!

 

Chris



#18 Raginar

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 06:46 PM

You only have to ratchet the worms once .  . . . . . 

Thanks Arie/Tim, that's what I was looking for.

 

Chris


Edited by Raginar, 24 October 2019 - 06:46 PM.


#19 Arie

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 07:13 PM

When your scopes are becoming awkward to lift, a Rayox sadle is very handy.

 

IMG_1597.JPG


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#20 Raginar

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 08:01 PM

Hey Arie,

 

     I didn't know you could change the saddle on it.  What is a Rayox saddle?

 

Chris



#21 EFT

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 12:21 AM

I can't find Rayox anymore.  Did they go out of business or get bought up?



#22 Waldemar

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 01:00 AM

I can't find Rayox anymore.  Did they go out of business or get bought up?

I tried to do bussiness with Stephen to get the European import rights and suddenly there were no more answers.
I am afraid something happened to him...


Edited by Waldemar, 25 October 2019 - 01:01 AM.


#23 Arie

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 06:45 AM

Waldemar pointed me to this quick latch saddle.

I got it from O'Telescope, who happened to have one in stock. This one has a dove tail on the bottom that sits in the original 10M clamp. They were supposed to come with various bottom plates to fit different mounts.

I remember that Paul was considering to get one too. Did that ever happen Paul?

This device did not come cheap, but I think it is worth it.

Land your telescope into the saddle and by depressing the button the clamp closes partially.

Enough to catch the telescope.

After balancing you pivot the lever to the side that clamps it tight.

My mount stands pretty high on its pier. I cannot reach around or over it to tighten the original clamp screws.

 

 

I think I have a collectors item now. :-)


Edited by Arie, 25 October 2019 - 06:48 AM.

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#24 psandelle

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 08:44 AM

Waldemar pointed me to this quick latch saddle.

I got it from O'Telescope, who happened to have one in stock. This one has a dove tail on the bottom that sits in the original 10M clamp. They were supposed to come with various bottom plates to fit different mounts.

I remember that Paul was considering to get one too. Did that ever happen Paul?

This device did not come cheap, but I think it is worth it.

Land your telescope into the saddle and by depressing the button the clamp closes partially.

Enough to catch the telescope.

After balancing you pivot the lever to the side that clamps it tight.

My mount stands pretty high on its pier. I cannot reach around or over it to tighten the original clamp screws.

 

 

I think I have a collectors item now. :-)

If you're talking about this Paul, no. I talked to the maker  and the GM 1000 HPS was the one mount you couldn't swap dovetail clamps out, had to do what you did, put the Rayox into the 10Micron clamp...which seemed less than efficient. If I could have swapped, I would have done it. Haven't heard about them since.

 

Paul



#25 Tonk

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 09:11 AM

My take on this - sell your GM1000HPS and upgrade to a GM2000HPS. All problems and risks are then gone - as well as some of your savings - but well worth it.

The GM2000HPS also comes in an ultra portable configuration (it divides into 2 parts) if the mount has to be set up in the field. The regular version is cheaper. You need to pick a  saddle clamp as the native mount does not have one (its armed with a frightening number of pre-drilled bolt holes for a wide range of 3rd party clamps). I use the Baader PAN 3 inch saddle clamp.

Example here:

2W3c7cE1Sq4b_1824x0_wmhqkGbg.jpg


Edited by Tonk, 25 October 2019 - 09:28 AM.

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