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SiOnyx Aurora for NV Photography

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#26 Oukifrench

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 10:56 AM

Why not just use an afocal platform?  I would be shocked if the Aurora did not have a 1/4-20 mount.

 

Threaded adapters are not the only way to attach a camera or NV device to an eyepiece.

 

https://www.highpoin...BoCz14QAvD_BwE 

Yes for me it's the better way to utilise Sionyx aurora. 

Very simple.

ouki


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#27 Eddgie

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 11:06 AM

Yes for me it's the better way to utilise Sionyx aurora. 

Very simple.

ouki

Yeah, it seems like the most practical way to mount the SiOnyx.   I think I am going to get a SiOnyx Sport for Christmas, and when I do, I will probably get the Baader mount and use that for both the SiOnyx and afocal use with NV. I don't really use afocal much and when I do, I tend to just hold the NV device up to the eyepiece. With the exposure time of the SiOnyx requireing a more stable connection having the platform would likely be necessary.  I still likely would not do much afocal with NV, but it would be there if I wanted it and especially if I wanted to share the view with others. 



#28 t_image

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 04:48 PM

Well got the Aurora Sport yesterday. .........................................

 

Sensitivity: Well it is nowhere as close to Gen 3 which is to be expected. It was "ok". Did not blow my mind. Even using 1.5s exposures it did not show much more than what I can see with glass from my heavily light polluted backyard (resolution was slightly better and of course there was color). Also my a7s is more sensitive at its highest ISO - so no advantage there.

 

..............................................

Hiten,

I was curious if you have any more thoughts on how the Sionyx A. compares with the Sony a7s using the same glass/setup if possible.

No doubt a FF sensor will do better.I guess if you ever figure out a prime focus way that can share both cameras,

I'd be interested in what settings (live view/ISO) would be comparable....Of course pixel size changes the spatial resolution......

 

Cheers!



#29 Astrojedi

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 04:59 PM

Ah, good for you!

 

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences.

Eddgie,

Couple of observations on the Aurora. The resolution is quite low. Imo a phone camera will do a lot better with NV devices, especially the newer models with night mode. Also the video on the company’s website comparing it to gen3 is very misleading. It is nowhere as sensitive. 

 

I unfortunately had to return mine as the knob was intermittently not responding and had a lot of lag. I am still debating whether to order a replacement.

 

I have been thinking of ordering a afocal adapter for NV anyways. Maybe this is a good time.



#30 Astrojedi

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 05:04 PM

Hiten,

I was curious if you have any more thoughts on how the Sionyx A. compares with the Sony a7s using the same glass/setup if possible.

No doubt a FF sensor will do better.I guess if you ever figure out a prime focus way that can share both cameras,

I'd be interested in what settings (live view/ISO) would be comparable....Of course pixel size changes the spatial resolution......

 

Cheers!

Hard to do a direct comparison as you cannot remove the lens on the Aurora. But I felt the a7s is more sensitive at prime. For example last evening with my 10” f4.7 dob I could not see the dumbbell in live view, but it was obvious with the a7s. The only complication is that the Aurora was afocal w a 24mm EP whereas a7s was at prime focus.


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#31 Psittacula

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:11 PM

I expect SyOnix's characteristic CMOS image sensor *1 in this camera may be suitable for astronomical observation under light pollution.

 

As you know, LED lighting is bringing light pollution to the continuous spectrum *2 in the visible light band. However, it has not reached the near infrared band. Therefore, it seems to be common to install an IR filter under light pollution in NV by I.I., which has high sensitivity in the near infrared band.

 

SyOnix's CMOS imagers not only have large (10μm square) pixels, but also have high sensitivity in the near-infrared band similar to I.I. *3 Therefore, it may be possible to use it similar to the above.

 

It may be a bit out of scope for anyone interested in this thread, if this camera (or its smartphone apps) has a stacking feature, like sharpcap's live stack or 'Night Mode' On Google Pixel 4. Then, I think that the features of this CMOS imager can be utilized. It would also be good if the company provided an SDK that would allow 3rd party apps such as SharpCap to connect this camera.

 

*1: https://www.sionyx.c...ensor-products/
*2: https://en.wikipedia...phor-based_LEDs

*3: http://image-sensors...esentation.html
 


Edited by Psittacula, 03 December 2019 - 08:19 PM.


#32 Eddgie

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Posted 04 December 2019 - 08:31 AM

It was never my intention to image the sky directly with the SiOnyx.  My intention was an occasional capture of the view in in the eyepiece of the night vision device.  I have zero interest in imaging the sky at prime focus with the SiOnyx or anything else. Just wanted to be able to grab some snapshots of the eyepiece view in the NVD. 

 

I still thought the SiOnyx would be fun to use as a travel camera though, and I think taking videos in low light situations would be a nice capability to have.   The resolution in not great, but I would probably never show the on a TV screen and 720P is fine for viewing on a tablet or laptop, which is about the only way they will ever be viewed I think. 

 

But I never had any interest in doing direct sky photography with the SiOnyx.  The only thing astronomy related I was interested in was using it in place of my cell phone for eyepiece captures from my NV device.



#33 cnoct

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 06:45 AM

It's now gone through the transformation surgery, so direct-to-chip photon path is now an option.
 
SiOnyx Aurora forPrime Astrophotography.jpg

 

The OEM lens is a great though and is threaded for 30.5 x 0.5 filters/adapters, not sure which configuration I like most, just depends on the target.

ETA: The OEM lens interface is c-mount, as is the OEM lens itself, so this configurations didn't really require any modifications. The telescope adapter can be dismounted and replaced with the OEM c-mount lens or other cinema lens.


Edited by cnoct, 26 March 2020 - 06:59 AM.

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#34 Oukifrench

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 09:15 AM

Very interresting news.



#35 Eddgie

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 01:56 PM

Most excellent! 

 

Are you going to post a Youtube video on the modification and maybe some prime focus captures?

 

I can't even get sacrificial lens off of the thing.  Does it twist off or pry off or something?



#36 Eddgie

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 07:33 PM

I got it off..

 

Did not get the objective off though but for now, just getting it off is good because I want to do some pics through the Mod 3 eyepeice.


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#37 cnoct

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 07:43 AM

Glad you got the protective focus assembly off, sorry I wasn't able to be the respondent on that. 

 

The tear down was not with astronomy in mind but was not without a goal either. The main motivation was to see what would come of using some SWIR lenses as well as relay coupling to I2. The latter works exceptionally well but still not sure on the SWIR lenses as I'm waiting for comparable VisNIR lenses. So far a well corrected 400-1000nm VisNIR lens is panning out to be preferable to the SWIR lenses. Also can't stand fixed lens cameras if there an option. 

 

Nothing serious here, just messing around and having fun with it.

 

Probably no instructional video on the parts removal and not sure on astro photos or videos in either prime or afocal ATM.

 

If your going to remove the objective, you'll need to first remove the aperture pin connecting the scene selector ring to the lenses aperture ring. The pin is located under a rectangular cap between the fourth and fifth flute of the scene selector ring. That's with the camera lens orientated away from you, just rotate your wrist clockwise to locate the cap, it's held down with a slight bit of adhesive film (double sided).

 

Don't try and unthread the lens after removing this pin, you'll need to do a bit more. The aluminum cage/sleeve needs to be removed from the back, accessed by removing 4 screws and separating camera head from main body. There are also slots on the crown of the c-mount interface that are filled with adhesive so another reason not to dismount lens prematurely. The adhesive pockets are under the strip of copper shielding tape. It's advisable to remove the adhesive pockets before attempting to dismount the lens, don't get ham fisted on this as the lens will easily spin off once the adhesive is removed.

 

Be aware theres a bit of copper shielding tape, just peel back and separate only that which is needed to separate the aluminum lens cage and free the lens. 

 

It took about a careful hour from start to completion. 

 

This really needn't be done and don't want to encourage something that could be a catalyst for an action that could damage someone else camera. If your like me and must make an interchangeable camera of the Aurora, then yea, get on with it... smile.gif


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#38 Eddgie

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Posted 27 March 2020 - 03:56 PM

I saw the pin. 

 

I doubt that I will actually remove the lens but thanks for sharing the process.

 

I was just trying to get it closer to the eyepiece of the NVD.

Looking forward to seeing your result.



#39 webmartians

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 11:24 AM

I have a SiOnyx Aurora Sport and have tried it for astronomy with limited success:

  • Afocally through a 50mm eyepiece on my 20cm 'scope, the camera produced OK videos of the Messier objects. I was amazed that it captured color in the Ring Nebula in Lyra (M57) and even what appears to be the central star. I have no idea of how to post video here (maybe on YouTube and then a link). Much duct tape was involved. undecided.gif
  • Afocally through an image intensifier (a color camera recording a green video ... OK... confused1.gif ) of a comet (hand held) did not produce a satisfying result.
Where the camera has proven very useful is in recording people at star parties for the clubs to which I belong! Here is YouTube link to just such a video: https://youtu.be/751h2yCdqvw. Watching some of these, I've noticed people failing to find the eyepiece but being too polite to say they could not see anything - "Was it OK?" "Yes, thank you" (tentative).

Ever seeking more, I wish the product had:
  • At least a filter thread (if not a removable lens)
    Hand holding just does not work. Duct tape is ridiculous.
  • Motion detection for wildlife imaging
    Kind of like a "CritterCam."
  • A way to feed live video through the USB port (used currently for only charging)
    I seek a microSD card that while providing storage (a ¼GB would be sufficient) allows concurrent Bluetooth or even WiFi access to the video files, maybe even an updating single image for the viewfinder.


#40 cnoct

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 10:34 AM

So I've been wanting to outfit the Aurora with a ultra fast lens ever since getting back in August of 2018. Finally did it and the results are fantastic, well at least terrestrially, not so much when turned to the celestial sphere. I tried and prefer the Angenieux but the Schneider just looked the part.

So here it is...

gallery_139776_10410_394360.jpg

 

This has been the most fun camera I've ever owned. The image quality is subpar but it just fun as a camera to carry along on nocturnal adventures especially now that the states are installing insanely bright street lighting, not really dark places left. 


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#41 Eddgie

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 10:40 AM

Awesome!

 

So this is just a screw on lens using the factory mount?   I noticed when the sacrificial lens cover is removed, the housing does not enclose the internals.  Is there a concern that foreign matter could get through the opening and contaminate the sensor?

 

Can't wait to see the new night time seal videos!


Edited by Eddgie, 24 April 2020 - 10:40 AM.


#42 GeezerGazer

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 11:58 PM

So I've been wanting to outfit the Aurora with a ultra fast lens ever since getting back in August of 2018. Finally did it and the results are fantastic, well at least terrestrially, not so much when turned to the celestial sphere. I tried and prefer the Angenieux but the Schneider just looked the part.

So here it is...

 

This has been the most fun camera I've ever owned. The image quality is subpar but it just fun as a camera to carry along on nocturnal adventures especially now that the states are installing insanely bright street lighting, not really dark places left. 

HOW did you attach the f:.95 Schneider lens? And, is the image sharp to the edge at .95? 



#43 cnoct

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 04:18 AM

 

 

So this is just a screw on lens using the factory mount?  - Yes!

 

I noticed when the sacrificial lens cover is removed, the housing does not enclose the internals.  Is there a concern that foreign matter could get through the opening and contaminate the sensor?  - No more of an issue than with any typical removable lensed camera or NV system, less actually but I stripped the hot filter slide and focus shifting window. However, there is a small opening for the flex cable and board for the photo transistors (reflection transistors) that presents an ingress location but sealing that off is simple. Once done it is as water resistant as stock. This whole process is more part stripping than modification. 

 

 

 


Edited by cnoct, 25 April 2020 - 04:26 AM.


#44 cnoct

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 04:25 AM

HOW did you attach the f:.95 Schneider lens? - Threaded on via male c-mount to female c-mount

 

And, is the image sharp to the edge at .95? - Not a chance, but I didn't do this for image sharpness particularly at the edge of field. I wanted to see what the sensor was capable of without being crippled by a 'slow' f/1.4 lens. As all the 1" faster than f/0.95 lenses I have, this one is just about as soft as the others and terrible chromatic aberrations. I'd have to go larger format for edge of field sharpness, minimum of 4/3" format and most likely APS-C. 



#45 Eddgie

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 07:55 AM

Ok, Uncle .. I took my sacrificial lens off again and I could not see how the pin that holds the factory lens is accessed. There is a trim ring what what appears to be some lens spanner notches.  I am guessing that this ring has to be removed to get at the pin???? 

 

Videos of the new lens in action please!


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#46 cnoct

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 09:01 AM

SiOnyx Aurora Sport for Afocal Astronomy.jpg

 

smile.gif

 

 



#47 cnoct

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 09:02 AM

SiOnyx Aurora Afocal Telescope Setup.jpg

 

smile.gif



#48 Glory Eye

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 10:58 PM

Hello Eddgie,

 

Just have a look over there

https://www.cloudyni...1-and-ngc-5746/

 

and all the following posts I have made using SiOnyx for sketching.

 

Clear skies,

Francis

Francis,

I have tried to use this camera in the same way you do to take 1.5s exposures but I haven't had success. Can you please detail the settings required within the camera to get the 1.5s exposures?

Thanks.



#49 FRANC LILL

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 01:50 AM

Francis,

I have tried to use this camera in the same way you do to take 1.5s exposures but I haven't had success. Can you please detail the settings required within the camera to get the 1.5s exposures?

Thanks.

??

1- Set button: short pressure/shutter/manual/1.5 sec and confirm by a long pressure on set button

2- Set button: short pressure/self timer/2 sec

3- Set button: long pressure/brightness/ M or L

4- Set button: long pressure/night glow/ grey


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#50 Glory Eye

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Posted 29 April 2020 - 12:44 AM

??

1- Set button: short pressure/shutter/manual/1.5 sec and confirm by a long pressure on set button

2- Set button: short pressure/self timer/2 sec

3- Set button: long pressure/brightness/ M or L

4- Set button: long pressure/night glow/ grey

Thank you Francis, I'll give those settings a try.




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