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ZWO ASI 6200 MM PRO initial impressions

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#51 Coconuts

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 05:37 PM

Konihlav: Those are good suggestions, but I doubt if I will have enough tilt plate thickness to include both the bayonet and a filter.  But a short bit of an M48 thread on the side facing the camera might allow a filter to protrude into the camera opening.  I think, though, that the autofocus electrical contacts would interfere.

 

The Sigma 14-24 mm f/2.8 DG DN lens actually has a rear clip-in filter provision, which is nice, but that is probably the only lens ever to do so.  But my other Sigma ART lenses for EF mount would couple via Sigma's MC-21 mount converter, which is 24 mm deep.  Perhaps there is space for a filter inside there.

 

I might need two L mount plates, one thicker by 1/3rd the filter thickness.

 

I usually mount the camera lens in a scope ring, and let the camera hang off the lens; see my post:

https://www.cloudyni...-camera-lenses/

 

FWIW, I just got an email announcing that Agena Astro is now taking pre-orders for the ASI6200, for delivery in "late January".  I placed my order for the OSC version.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin



#52 SnowSailor

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 07:44 PM

Randall,

 

You have the PlaneWave 14" CDK if I recall correctly. I'm guessing you plan to mount a 6200 on that? I'd be very interested to see your results since you're actually putting together my setup that I have planned for a few years down the line. I think you even have the same mount (L-350) that I'm very interested in! I can't wait to see your results. Will you try to use the reducer and forgo guiding, or are you going to use the OAG without the reducer? Since the reducer requires ~44mm of spacing to be optimal, I don't think it would work out too well with the OAG unless you somehow got the OAG to go in front of the reducer (which is an interesting possibility, but may not be too feasible). My only concern is oversampling with the 6200 (which you certainly will be), but maybe 2x2 binning will take care of it and still give you better SNR than a 16803 would give while maintaining roughly the same resolution.



#53 rms40

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 08:53 AM

Snowsailor, All of the new CMOS cameras have small pixels. You will be oversampled on any long focal length scopes. My experience is that oversampling is not the end of the world. You just bin with software - like Pixinsight. It remains to be seen how well the ASI6200 will bin in the camera. Past consumer cmos cameras used a lower bit ADC if you binned on camera with hardware binning - reducing dynamic range.

 

I don't use reducers or flatteners. I use different, corrected scopes for wide angle.

 

Randall

 

PS - From the QHY600 info:

"The CMOS sensor itself has some binning function but it should not be the hardware binning (FD binning). And also the binning in the sensor is based on the location of the bayer color . it means it will binning with the same position of the same color.And for monochrom QHY600 sensor, it is still use such a position to do binning. So we think it is not a good solution for the monochrom binning."

 

It looks like QHY and ZWO will implement software binning on camera. The Bayer matrix hardware implementation would make FD binning worthless on a mono camera.


Edited by rms40, 21 November 2019 - 09:45 AM.


#54 MapleEve

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 09:15 AM

Snowsailor, All of the new CMOS cameras have small pixels. You will be oversampled on any long focal length scopes. My experience is that oversampling is not the end of the world. You just bin with software - like Pixinsight. It remains to be seen how well the ASI6200 will bin in the camera. Past consumer cmos cameras used a lower bit ADC if you binned on camera with hardware binning - reducing dynamic range.
 
I don't use reducers or flatteners. I use different, corrected scopes for wide angle.
 
Randall


The next tester using 6200mm with Tak E130 and Antlia Ha 3.5nm is binning 2x too.
The first light tonight:
According to the statics, it's -5c cooled and 0 gain 80 offset.
 
1.png

Edited by MapleEve, 21 November 2019 - 09:28 AM.

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#55 MapleEve

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 09:19 AM

A quick follow up:

 

air temp 10c, cool pwr 30% and stabilized at -5c

 

1.png

gallery_319546_302_662709.jpeg

 

Added a side view of the whole sysytem.


Edited by MapleEve, 21 November 2019 - 09:23 AM.

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#56 Coconuts

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:36 PM

Do the ASI6200 M54 threads have a pitch of 1 mm or 0.75 mm?  Artesky has an M54 rotator, but it has 0.75 mm thread pitch.  Is that rotator compatible?  I thought that I saw where the ASI6200 has 1 mm threads.  It also doesn't look as though the Artesky M54 rotator includes filter threads.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin



#57 bortle2

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 12:59 PM

Do the ASI6200 M54 threads have a pitch of 1 mm or 0.75 mm? 

According to the specs, it's 0.75:

 

Connection (to the telescope)    M54 x 0,75



#58 Coconuts

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 02:21 PM

Bortle2:  Thanks!  I'll order that Artesky M54 rotator.

 

Oh, and short of a custom adapter, will there be anything on the market soon to adapt the ASI6200 to the Tak e-130D?  They both have 0.75 mm thread pitch, but perversely, the Tak drawtube uses an M55 x 0.75 thread. That connection won't require a rotator, since the e-130D includes one.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin


Edited by Coconuts, 27 November 2019 - 02:49 PM.


#59 andysea

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:10 PM

According to the specs, it's 0.75:

You are correct, sorry about the confusion!

I have the m54 rotator I can confirm that it screws onto the filter wheel, the only issue is that the thumb screws protrude out from the face of the rotator and hit the filter wheel. I am planning to replace them with set screws.



#60 rms40

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:25 PM

Andy, r u back? Have a good trip?

 

Do you know what the thread pitch and thread depth are for the M63 OAG? Is there a drawing anywhere? I want to get an adapter ready for my Tak 72mm.

 

Thanks, Randall



#61 andysea

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 04:40 PM

Randall I’m still on the Amalfi coast:) I’d love to stay here forever but I guess I have to get to work on that 6200 camera!!
I wil back on Saturday and I hope to be able to get some NB data on Saturday night from home.
Regarding the thread I am pretty sure it’s m63x1 but let me confirm on sat. I have ordered an m63x1 adapter from TS. I will know right away if it doesn’t screw into the Oag.

However hold off on getting adapters. I corresponded with ZWO and I suggested that they listen to future users requests to allow for shorter backfocus by bypassing the tilt plate if desired. This may also affect the OAG design and I think the OAG that I was sent is a prototype not the final design.
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#62 rms40

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 11:39 PM

Amalfi Coast...I've only seen it on Rick Steve's PBS show...ha. Sounds like a great vacation.

 

I am getting anxious for the ASI6200. I probably would have gone with the QHY600mm by now except that it is too long for my fork mount. I can wait. I've ordered too many adapters and such in the past only to find out I needed something else.

 

Enjoy the rest of your time in Italy. We will save some Turkey for you over here.

 

Randall


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#63 MapleEve

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 08:50 PM

To follow up the latest ZWO ASI6200MM test pic, the 2nd tester has posted those two.

 

Please keep in mind this is the original pic with (most likely) brand NEW ZWO 2" LRGB NB filter. Which seems not OEM by Optolong.

 

 

 

IC434TAK.jpeg

 

 

L5 R4 G4 B4  300s each

 

M31TAK.jpeg

 

 

5RGB 5*300 each

 

 

 

Maple


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#64 maxmir

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 12:51 AM

Stars look square. Camera or scope artifact ?



#65 MapleEve

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Posted 29 November 2019 - 10:06 PM

Stars look square. Camera or scope artifact ?


I think this is the postprocessing result. The night is foggy too.



======== Edit

And here comes the fullsized Lum original and final version of IC434 with TAK e130
IC434-Lum.jpg

 

IC434-final.jpg


Edited by MapleEve, 30 November 2019 - 12:06 PM.

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#66 v3ngence

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 03:19 PM

I'm noticing the luminance stack looks much sharper, and the combined stack is significantly softer, but I'm not familiar with monochrome so maybe it is normal for the luminance to look that way.

 

But really very good for such a short exposure time, and the darks look great, can't wait for the full resolution 1x1 shots!

 

Does anyone know if the ASI2600MC has made it into the hands of any testers yet?


Edited by v3ngence, 01 December 2019 - 02:35 PM.


#67 MapleEve

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 11:27 AM

I'm noticing the luminance stack looks much sharper and the combined stack is significantly softer (maybe too much noise reduction during processing?) but really cool for such a short exposure time, and the darks look great, can't wait for the full resolution 1x1 shots!

 

Does anyone know if the ASI2600MC has made it into the hands of any testers yet?

 I may register the 2600MC test, since I am also interested in that one rather than 533, to finally replace my 071 and to upgrade one of my build into RC or RASA.


Edited by MapleEve, 01 December 2019 - 11:27 AM.

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#68 buckeyestargazer

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Posted 01 December 2019 - 11:00 PM

I will measure the tilt plate thickness once I am beck home, but Kevin is most likely correct.


Hey Andy, have you had a chance to measure the tilt plate thickness?

#69 Jon Rista

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 02:57 AM

Yes I’m clear about the need for offset. I just wonder if 900 is necessary.

That would be in 16-bit, whereas most of the prior ZWO cameras are 12- or 14-bit. As a direct comparison, the commonly used 50 ADU offset of their current 12-bit mono CMOS cameras, when converted to 16-bit, is 800 DN. So, a 900 ADU offset with a 16-bit camera is pretty much exactly where I would expect it to be, assuming it has a similar noise profile (which, based on your noise evaluation screenshots, looks to be the case.)


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#70 Astrobarn_

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 03:44 AM

They do have microlenses, imx455 included.
Gapless microlenses on every modern production cmos.

The major difference is the sensor coverglass is excellently AR coated in the case of Sony sensors vs Panasonic. I've replaced the coverglass (not LPF1/LPF2, actual coverglass) with an Astronomik L3 filter on my A7RII for astro landscapes and can reproduce what some think is microlens flare on that camera which doesn't happen with a stock camera. Older Kodak chips like the KAF39000 had no microlenses yet easily reproduced what so many in astro circles misdiagnosed as "microlens flare".

I think new gens of sony cmos don't have µlenses now



#71 Coconuts

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 06:56 AM

ZWO just sent me a dimensional drawing for the ASI6200, below.  It confirms the tilt plate thickness of 5.0 mm.  In addition to the six M4 tapped holes on an 80 mm BCD in the tilt plate, it also has six M2.5 tapped holes on a 62 mm BCD.  The three fixing fasteners on the 80 mm BCD must account for three of the five tapped holes at 60 degree spacing shown in Andy's photo on page 1 of this thread.  Andy or MapleEve: details on the tilt plate fixing fasteners, and hence the diameter/pitch of those five tapped holes, would be appreciated.

 

ASI6200 dimensions.jpg

 

All the best,

 

Kevin


Edited by Coconuts, 02 December 2019 - 07:19 AM.


#72 andysea

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:24 AM

Hey Andy, have you had a chance to measure the tilt plate thickness?

Confirmed! it is 5mm.


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#73 andysea

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:35 AM

I hope to be able to use the camera this coming weekend, assuming that we get some clear nights. 

 

Miraculously, I was able to get about 1.5 hours of 7nm H-alpha data on Saturday after a 10 hour flight, however I have some horrible gradients from a road construction site near my house. Needless to say the data is not usable.

From what I can see the camera produces extremely clean data.


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#74 Coconuts

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 03:06 PM

Andy:  Thanks.  When you get a chance, could you let us know what the tilt plate attaching fasteners are?  That would let me get started on a custom adapter plate, and would be of interest to others looking to attach their filter wheel camera side plate directly to the camera.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin



#75 rms40

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:13 PM

Andy, really? You imaged right after you got back. You are a real trooper.

 

So far, the QHY600mm and ASI6200mm look really good to me. From what you have reported, the ASI6200mm appears to cool deeper. That is really important in the hot southern states. And, the newest ASI6200mm drawing looks like the camera is a little less than 99 mm that was reported earlier by ZWO. That will just fit with my fork mount and the cables protruding out the rear. I already have my scope pushed about as far forward as practical. If the tilt adapter can be removed, I might do that as well. I don't seem to have tilt issues judging by my stars with any of my cameras at f5 and f7. I thread or bolt everything together. But, I don't measure tilt either. That would probably just cause me headaches if I did.

 

ZWO hasn't responded to me about the OAG thread pitch and depth. Like you mentioned, it looks like they may still be finalizing it and the 2"/50mm unmounted EFW.

 

Randall




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