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Unboxing & Assembling a 50” DOB

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#1 Joe1950

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 08:38 PM

I don’t know if this had been covered before, but I found it interesting. People took delivery, unboxed and assembled a really nice 50” DOB. 

 

YouTube, 30 minutes. 


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#2 Joe1950

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 08:43 PM

Can’t even imagine the cost!

Can’t imagine looking through one either.



#3 stargazer193857

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 09:26 PM

Used a fork lift and 6 people to load the mirror. But once all was set up, it just rolls out of the shed. I'd still be afraid to be on a ladder next to it, in case the wind blows. But that is why you have helpers holding it.

No shroud or baffles. The secondary is surrounded by sky. Maybe oversizing the secondary can shield that. Then the only light would be near the primary.

Edited by stargazer193857, 20 November 2019 - 09:27 PM.

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#4 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 09:26 PM

Yep --- That's Normand alright! I have one of his wonderful ~little~ 36-inch Technofusion mirrors in my NewMoon Dobsonian... performing wonderfully. And gota admit a 50-incher would be my next step... but really gota exercise the 36 for a few seasons before going up in size. And yes, although these bigger high-end scopes cost a lot, they are still a tremendous bargain for what you are getting. Turn-key ready-to-observe monster aperture with great wavefront! 36-inch 1000 square inches, 50-inch 1900 square inches!

 

I've seen the video before; glad they did and share detailed photodoc. Very efficient logistics (Normand running the show). For my installation it was Ryan (New Moon Telescopes) with us local helpers. At this size you also need the local infrastructure and logistics all pre-loaded for taking delivery. It's not just a couple of cardboard boxes arriving in a UPS truck and into the garage or living room. Aptly sobering for anyone contemplating going truly big.

 

Here's a picture of Ryan and me just after successfull installation of the 36 in my dome.

 

And here's the drone video of my ovservatory with the 36-incher in there.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=9DUMPgsY0dw

 

~click on~  >>>    Tom

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#5 jupiter122

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 09:36 PM

I need help setting up my TV85. Is Lehigh available?
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#6 Joe1950

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 10:02 PM

Beautiful video, Tom!  The scope, the observatory and the area are unbelievable!

 

 

I with you, Jupiter! smirk.gif

 

 

Actually  stargazer193857m I think the shed rolls over the scope and back. It's on tracks and they had to make the door higher to fit over the scope. The area looks isolated and must be very dark to begin with. No neighbors lights to contend with there!


Edited by Joe1950, 20 November 2019 - 10:03 PM.

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#7 jim kuhns

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 10:09 PM

Tom enjoyed the video Wished it was taken at the height of autumn. Maybe you will consider next year doing a

video then.

It appears you have a lot of mowing to do on your property.


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#8 Xeroid

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 10:23 PM

He needs to get a heard of Goats (as in 4 legs)  to mow his lawn lol.gif

 

 

Tom enjoyed the video Wished it was taken at the height of autumn. Maybe you will consider next year doing a

video then.

It appears you have a lot of mowing to do on your property.


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#9 Hugh Peck

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 10:23 PM

https://www.cloudyni...llum-newtonian/


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#10 GalaxyPiper

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 10:37 PM

Good Lord what a contraption / erector set.

I started running out of fingers for all the times I counted safety lapses.

I wonder why they insisted on using ladders to build it, when it is obvious that they can assemble it laying it down. and then the moving building threw me for loop.

At first I thought they were dragging it in after they cut the rafters of the spans to get in it the building, then the building was moving.

A really strong wind could collapse the building around the scope.

I saw a lot of lapses, and poor judgement calls. The final one was looking at the laser...good lord, even if it is a low powered one, that is a no no.

Running over the power cord was laughable as well.

Dang, I didn't know that if I owned a saw I could be a astronomer too!

Wow...just wow...lol. 

Glad everyone is safe...at least on camera.


Edited by GalaxyPiper, 20 November 2019 - 10:41 PM.

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#11 Berny

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 11:12 PM

I'm a nervous wreck just watching the video.


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#12 TOMDEY

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 11:42 PM

Tom enjoyed the video Wished it was taken at the height of autumn. Maybe you will consider next year doing a

video then.

It appears you have a lot of mowing to do on your property.

He needs to get a heard of Goats (as in 4 legs)  to mow his lawn lol.gif

Actually, my place indeed was a sheep/goat farm 80 years ago... I even have the aerial imagery to prove it! And have found underground tile and standpipes where the farmer directed ground water to the flocks, stone walls in the woods, bones, skulls, etc.

 

One of the landscapers who rock-hounded that field for me... he convinced me to buy a real 4WD tractor for subsequent/routine mowing. And that was prudent. He found a great deal on a barely used one with the proper mowing deck, loader, PTOs, etc. And I've been using it ever since. Yes... many acres to mow. That field is only one of them. But the property is pretty and park-like. Walking paths, fields, streams, woods, gulls... the deer and other fauna love it! That's what I was alluding regarding ~infrastructure~ if one hopes to eventually have a dark-site observatory(ies). Gota soberly consider the entire cost, effort, and maintenance involved. Pipe-dreams are good --- actualizing them is the tough part. Whatever one estimates... double the time, schedule and effort... and then decide whether it is still really both doable and worth it! If the answer comes back ~Ehhh... No!~ then that's perfectly fine! Me, I've been ambitious and obsessive-compulsive my entire life. The only way to burn off this manic energy is to actually set high goals and then doggedly plow ahead and  accomplish them. Many of my manic friends have set grandiose goals, but stalled out... the challenge is to realistically assess one's own endurance limits and plan accordingly. There's an obscure line twixt achievable ambition and clinical mania. The first is wonderful... the second is kinda nuts.    Tom

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#13 stargazer193857

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 12:18 AM

While y'all were cringing at safety issues, I was thinking how long it is taking, how I'd never want to set it up, and how maybe it is worth it if it can just roll out.

The main issue I saw was those straps looked too small to hold the primary mirror. I expected them to snap.

I did not realize the shed was rolling. I wondered what the loud noise was and what they meant by running over the cord.

That scope is small for 50", and manageable as a low rider.
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#14 TOMDEY

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 01:34 AM

Good Lord what a contraption / erector set.

I started running out of fingers for all the times I counted safety lapses.

I wonder why they insisted on using ladders to build it, when it is obvious that they can assemble it laying it down. and then the moving building threw me for loop.

At first I thought they were dragging it in after they cut the rafters of the spans to get in it the building, then the building was moving.

A really strong wind could collapse the building around the scope.

I saw a lot of lapses, and poor judgement calls. The final one was looking at the laser...good lord, even if it is a low powered one, that is a no no.

Running over the power cord was laughable as well.

Dang, I didn't know that if I owned a saw I could be a astronomer too!

Wow...just wow...lol. 

Glad everyone is safe...at least on camera.

While y'all were cringing at safety issues, I was thinking how long it is taking, how I'd never want to set it up, and how maybe it is worth it if it can just roll out.
The main issue I saw was those straps looked too small to hold the primary mirror. I expected them to snap.
I did not realize the shed was rolling. I wondered what the loud noise was and what they meant by running over the cord.
That scope is small for 50", and manageable as a low rider.

True, and true... and yet... and yet...

 

sidewalk superintendent
1. n. someone who—out of curiosity—watches excavations being dug and buildings being built. All day, the lines of sidewalk superintendents oozed by.
2. n. any critic. If another sidewalk superintendent comes in here and tries to tell me how to manage this office, heads will roll.

 

Which is to say...

first, there are the few who actually do and accomplish

and then there are the many who stand on the sidelines and say how they would do it better

 

Reminds me of the cute TV commercial where some guy is engaged in an ambitious and arduous home project laying a nifty brick/tile patio... and his neighbor is peeking over, eating a bag of chips... and trying to tell him how to do it better. The worker bee looks over, says nothing, and continues working... something that some few of us have experienced... often...    Tom

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#15 Joe1950

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 03:12 AM

Good posts!  I could only imagine all the nuts and bolts being used. And for a 50” scope, it did seem very compact and manageable. 

 

I give you credit, Tom, for aiming high!  I could never do it. 


Edited by Joe1950, 21 November 2019 - 03:26 AM.

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#16 GalaxyPiper

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 03:45 AM

True, and true... and yet... and yet...

 

sidewalk superintendent
1. n. someone who—out of curiosity—watches excavations being dug and buildings being built. All day, the lines of sidewalk superintendents oozed by.
2. n. any critic. If another sidewalk superintendent comes in here and tries to tell me how to manage this office, heads will roll.

 

Which is to say...

first, there are the few who actually do and accomplish

and then there are the many who stand on the sidelines and say how they would do it better

 

Reminds me of the cute TV commercial where some guy is engaged in an ambitious and arduous home project laying a nifty brick/tile patio... and his neighbor is peeking over, eating a bag of chips... and trying to tell him how to do it better. The worker bee looks over, says nothing, and continues working... something that some few of us have experienced... often...    Tom

I'm glad everyone is ok and eager, but poor planning.

I'm one of those that if I order something that large, that I look at the place I'm going to put it in, and check to see if it is large enough, and if not, raise the roof, because now they have weakened the trusses that hold the structure up.

Measure twice, cut once. Not order something and then crossing, or cutting that bridge, when you come to it.

So, take my comments good naturedly, but with compassion and concern.

 

I am helping my club motorize the roof on the clubs astronomy observatory. We wanted to know the weight of the roof. So I had to get measurements, find out the size of the timbers, and the specific gravity (weight) of those timbers, measure or calculate the angles of the other trusses, count the number of trusses, the weight of the felt, the, 1/2 inch plywood sheeting, the metal roofing, the whole gambit, so we know that the DC motor and the 30 to 1 reduction gear box can handle the 85-90 lb. resistive resting state of the roof, and when it overcomes, and becomes a 65 lb push (or pull) rolling weight. Whats called "slip resistance".

 

We want to make sure we don't burn out motors or have it strain under the load.

 

Measure twice, cut once. You have to always be ready to overcome "Murphy's law", that goes something like this "Anything that can happen, will." in it's shortest literation.

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Murphy's_law

 

Plan ahead, or cut your shed!

 

I'm sure it is a fine scope, and will serve them well. They just need to make sure it is well protected now, but now that they have weakened the truss structure, they just weakened the weight bearing loads of the roof, and a heavy snow, which weighs 20 lbs per cubed foot, will collapse it.

 

Physics can be a harsh mistress in reality!


Edited by GalaxyPiper, 21 November 2019 - 03:50 AM.

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#17 stargazer193857

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 09:40 AM

I'm sure we all want to know how much it weights. The answer is, "heavy enough that 4 people still want a tractor, but light you can slew it by hand." If I sold a scope like that, I too would drive it there myself and oversee it getting set up.

Wow. The thought that 50" scopes are being privately bought and installed in fields like this across the country.

Let's calculate what M51 would look like in an 82 deg eyepiece at 6mm exit pupil:

11 minutes wide. Let's say 1/5 deg. To get to 60 degrees, that is 300x. 50x25.4/300 = 4.23mm exit pupil. So even 50 inches is not too big for M51. 65 inches would be better. For ladder height, I think they did correctly.

Edited by stargazer193857, 21 November 2019 - 11:04 AM.

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#18 stargazer193857

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 11:11 AM

https://www.optiques...acinia-2-2-2-3/

Says it is an f3.5 fused mirror that cools in 20 minutes. With a P2 and 21E, it should have a 5.2mm exit pupil and see M51 48 deg wide, drifting through the middle of the 100 deg view.

Edited by stargazer193857, 21 November 2019 - 11:20 AM.

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#19 tommm

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 11:53 AM

I'm glad everyone is ok and eager, but poor planning.

I'm one of those that if I order something that large, that I look at the place I'm going to put it in, and check to see if it is large enough, and if not, raise the roof, because now they have weakened the trusses that hold the structure up.

Measure twice, cut once. Not order something and then crossing, or cutting that bridge, when you come to it.

So, take my comments good naturedly, but with compassion and concern.

 

I am helping my club motorize the roof on the clubs astronomy observatory. We wanted to know the weight of the roof. So I had to get measurements, find out the size of the timbers, and the specific gravity (weight) of those timbers, measure or calculate the angles of the other trusses, count the number of trusses, the weight of the felt, the, 1/2 inch plywood sheeting, the metal roofing, the whole gambit, so we know that the DC motor and the 30 to 1 reduction gear box can handle the 85-90 lb. resistive resting state of the roof, and when it overcomes, and becomes a 65 lb push (or pull) rolling weight. Whats called "slip resistance".

 

We want to make sure we don't burn out motors or have it strain under the load.

 

Measure twice, cut once. You have to always be ready to overcome "Murphy's law", that goes something like this "Anything that can happen, will." in it's shortest literation.

 

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Murphy's_law

 

Plan ahead, or cut your shed!

 

I'm sure it is a fine scope, and will serve them well. They just need to make sure it is well protected now, but now that they have weakened the truss structure, they just weakened the weight bearing loads of the roof, and a heavy snow, which weighs 20 lbs per cubed foot, will collapse it.

 

Physics can be a harsh mistress in reality!

They didn't weaken the building. They only cut out the doorway, not all the trusses. Easily repaired.  As for planning, you really think they did little planning to produce, ship from Canada, and assemble such a large scope. I made my living as an R&D engineer and engineering manager and project manager for many years in silicon valley. Systems were modeled in Solidworks, testing done for stress, thermal analysis, etc. Worked with production engineers, supplier quality engineers and suppliers, reliability engineers, QA, etc. to build and further test during gamma and beta phases, JDP etc. and you still run into problems not unlike those the Fullum crew encountered. Many times due to failures at interfaces - I thought YOU were going to do that. We had a saying: An assumption is the beginning of a screw-up, or Assume Nothing. I'm impressed with the job they did. Well executed for such a small group. But there is always someone who says they would have done it better. Usually someone who has never done anything like it, so has no appreciation of the details. The devil is in the details.

 

Btw, there is already another thread on this topic in this forum.


Edited by tommm, 21 November 2019 - 12:07 PM.

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#20 GalaxyPiper

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 01:01 PM

They didn't weaken the building. They only cut out the doorway, not all the trusses. Easily repaired.  As for planning, you really think they did little planning to produce, ship from Canada, and assemble such a large scope. I made my living as an R&D engineer and engineering manager and project manager for many years in silicon valley. Systems were modeled in Solidworks, testing done for stress, thermal analysis, etc. Worked with production engineers, supplier quality engineers and suppliers, reliability engineers, QA, etc. to build and further test during gamma and beta phases, JDP etc. and you still run into problems not unlike those the Fullum crew encountered. Many times due to failures at interfaces - I thought YOU were going to do that. We had a saying: An assumption is the beginning of a screw-up, or Assume Nothing. I'm impressed with the job they did. Well executed for such a small group. But there is always someone who says they would have done it better. Usually someone who has never done anything like it, so has no appreciation of the details. The devil is in the details.

 

Btw, there is already another thread on this topic in this forum.

Well, that's good to know. it does look like a very sturdy telescope, and I'm sure they will get many views from it. I was stationed in New Jersey at McGuire AFB, so I am familiar with the weather there.

I'm not denigrating the the telescope, just surprised by it, and like 

 

I'm a nervous wreck just watching the video.

said, I felt the same way. Especially when the guy jumped off the 'running' tractor on the flat bed, then drove off with it still running and not tied down.

Time is on our side, there is no need to rush to failure, and have a "Challenger" moment.

That's all I'm saying. Someone has to bring it up, and I guess it was me this time.

 

Clear skies all, and I'm sure we would all like updates, so keep us posted!


Edited by GalaxyPiper, 21 November 2019 - 01:02 PM.

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#21 Joe1950

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 02:20 PM

 

I was stationed in New Jersey at McGuire AFB...

That’s not too far from me. Maybe a 30 to 40 minute drive. 


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#22 John Fitzgerald

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 02:31 PM

Well, that's good to know. it does look like a very sturdy telescope, and I'm sure they will get many views from it. I was stationed in New Jersey at McGuire AFB, so I am familiar with the weather there.

I'm not denigrating the the telescope, just surprised by it, and like 

 

said, I felt the same way. Especially when the guy jumped off the 'running' tractor on the flat bed, then drove off with it still running and not tied down.

Time is on our side, there is no need to rush to failure, and have a "Challenger" moment.

That's all I'm saying. Someone has to bring it up, and I guess it was me this time.

 

Clear skies all, and I'm sure we would all like updates, so keep us posted!

You seem to worry too much about things that don't affect you.


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#23 GalaxyPiper

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 02:40 PM

You seem to worry too much about things that don't affect you.

As as trained Mechanic that kept C-141's from falling out of the skies to protect air crews and the pax (passengers) from dying, it has become a force of habit.

 

That’s not too far from me. Maybe a 30 to 40 minute drive. 

1985-1989...flight line launch and recovery, and later, crew chief on C-141's. And I thank you for your service!


Edited by GalaxyPiper, 21 November 2019 - 02:41 PM.

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#24 Joe1950

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 03:45 PM

I just live in the area, I didn't serve in the military. But I certainly thank you for your service!

 

I often see those huge military transports flying past my home. Incredible sights. And I've been to a few of the open houses at the base, now Joint Base McGuire. Really a great place and somewhat away from the lights!

 

 

John. Good to get out of that other 'scope' thread. They get like a cat chasing its tail and go on forever, saying the same thing. 


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#25 TOMDEY

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Posted 21 November 2019 - 11:04 PM

On the general topic of risk assessment --- I have helped contractors around my place on several astoundingly difficult projects. Mostly providing unanticipated tools, tractor, loader, snacks and drinks, decision nodes... but stand back and keep outa the way when they are doing dangerous gymnastics. They hop and climb over their running dozers, excavators, cranes, like trapeze artists... getting the job done. I've always liked risk-takers. In the opposite limit... we would never accomplish anything at all without some risk. Where to draw the line is a judgment call.

 

And we tend to project... what would be dangerous/foolish for us is not for them. They have the conditioning, strength, endurance, flexibility, agility, eye, experience, and judgment that we are lacking. Just stand back and enjoy the show!   Tom

 

Couple snapshots from when I was much younger and building my biggest dome >>> I had plenty of helpers from work (aerospace imaging satellite builds). We're thirty feet up, there, cautious but in our comfort zone. All techs and engineers who were experienced and comfortable with scrambling over structures. Only injuries were minor scrapes, and bumps... goes with the territory.    Tom

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