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ZWO ASI533MC Pro impressions with test results

CMOS astrophotography beginner
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#1 MapleEve

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 10:21 PM

The 2nd day. I was honored to have a chance to test the new ZWO ASI533MC. Since my old version of 071MC-C is doing dew fix maintenance on their side.
 
Please keep in mind, this is a customer test and I am not affiliated with ZWO.
 
As last night was clear, so I went outreach to my site and shot 3 targets, which I will post both single fit and all the calibration fits in this thread.
 
I have attached a few photos and calibration frames below.
 
And will be happy to answer any questions or specific requests.
 
ASI533.JPG
 
^ Unpacking, this is a test model, so it only includes a single camera, I will assemble it with my ASI071 system,since the back intercept and screws are all the same as most ZWO cameras.
 
QNG.JPG
 
On the mountains last night. Using ASI 290mini as a guider scope, and the OTA is SkyWatcher 8" F4 newt, mount is EQ6-R.
The site is in my sig, so you can measure the following pics.
 
=====================================================
 
To shot with this camera is simply as shot with ASI071MC, and with the single square CMOS, you don't need to worry the OAG's prism blocking the CMOS, and you can turn any angle you like to make the framing.
 
After home test, I upgraded the latest ASCOM driver to 1.0.3.26 since older version cannot recognize this new product. Using simple unity gain at 100 gain, 70 offset, the USB speed simply runs at 40.
 
Download speed for SGP is 3s at bin 1*1 and 1s at bin 2*2, for NINA is nearly 1s for both bin 1 and 2. (Both with ASCOM drivers, since SGP don't have latest Native Driver so no test at the moment)
 
Cooling from home: Room temp 19C / 70% hum. and cooled to -15C and stabilized at 82%, on the mountain air temp 8C / 95% hum. cooled to -15C and stabilized at 50%.

Whole night seeing is about 0.7~0.8.
 
M45.PNG
 
M45 single pic. 300s 100gain 70offset, PI simple stretch & color calibration. Debayered but not calibrated.
 
M42.PNG
 
M42 single pic. 60s 100gain 70offset, PI simple stretch & color calibration. Debayered but not calibrated.
 
IC434.png
 
IC434 Hoursehead single pic. 300s 100gain 70offset, PI simple stretch & color calibration + ABE. Debayered but not calibrated.
 
CCDP.png
 
The measurement result on Unity Gain 100 gain 70 offset 40 USB.
 
==================================================
 
Calibration frames Download:
 
Stacked or master file with simple PI workflow, All Sigma Clipping is 2.5 high, 4.0 low.
 
https://drive.google...c3N?usp=sharing
 
Currently only with last night's Flats and Biases, will do darks tonight since I just got this one 2 days ago. And will post raw fits for my last night's target on my Astrobin.

Edited by MapleEve, 24 November 2019 - 03:55 AM.

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#2 coinboy1

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 10:44 PM

I was just looking into this camera today. The chip looks very sensitive and noise looks incredibly clean. It looks like a winner!!


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#3 petert913

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 11:38 PM

It does look good.   I'm curious why the camera uses a square sensor rather than more typical rectangular.  I guess it makes no

difference in outer space, really lol.gif



#4 MapleEve

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 12:44 AM

It does look good.   I'm curious why the camera uses a square sensor rather than more typical rectangular.  I guess it makes no

difference in outer space, really lol.gif

That's SONY's develop road though,  and with sensor size larger than APSC it DOES block the CMOS if you do the OAG assemble wrong, and I've suffered for that once.

 

As ZWO said it's a beginner's best choice cooled camera, I may speculate that easy to framing is one of those advantages for those who move from DSLR to a cooled camera.



#5 smr

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 05:18 AM

It's a little too zoomed in for my liking on these targets but it would make a great camera for 430mm scope on galaxies etc.?



#6 MapleEve

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 05:45 AM

It's a little too zoomed in for my liking on these targets but it would make a great camera for 430mm scope on galaxies etc.?


Choosing a camera to fit your ota is important, there are tons of simulating site you can do with it IMHO.

#7 CCD-Freak

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 10:27 AM

I like the square sensor.  It frames most objects nicely without a lot of un-utilized field.  I looks like it will work nicely with all my imaging scopes.

 

NGC5128 at 1220mm FL.jpg

NGC3628 at 2000mm FL.jpg

 

I would use my WO 80ED and AT60ED for the "big stuff".

 

I think I am about to "pull the trigger" and get one. (^8

 

 

John

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Edited by CCD-Freak, 24 November 2019 - 10:28 AM.

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#8 Starblind

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 10:50 AM

I might get one for Christmas.  The lack of amp glow is a big difference from the 183MC Pro, even though it does calibrate out on that model at 300s, not so much at longer exposures, seems inconsistent to me.  But the 183MM I have is excellent for NB imaging, so I'll be keeping that for now.  OSC would be a great addition to my setup but the weather just doesn't cooperate.  I'll never get long enough integration times for Andromeda or pretty much any of the galaxies unless I do multiple sessions, and they can be weeks apart in Chicagoland.  I need to move to somewhere less prone to rain, snow, cloudy skies and mosquitoes (at least they are all dead in winter).

 

Bob.


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#9 cmooney91

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 05:04 PM

Sony designed the IMX533 for 360 video applications.  The extreme fish eye lenses used for 360 video produce a small, abruptly ending image circle. The image is a circle, so a square sensor only wastes the corners. 

 

It will be a very handy sensor for the heavy focal reduction used in EAA Live-stacking when aberrations and vignetting become problems. Plus it has 1e of read noise, so it will be short exposure champ, (or for shortening bi/tri-narrow band exposures)


Edited by cmooney91, 24 November 2019 - 05:05 PM.

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#10 MapleEve

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:53 AM

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

Guys, I was publishing a Chinese version of this topic, and with more img included. But now I will simply focus on doing master dark and make those postprocessings.
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#11 DrGomer

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 12:18 PM

Thanks for sharing. I've had one on order since it showed up on their website. Hope it ships soon. Very much looking forward to transitioning away from my unmodified DSLR.  Those subs look great!



#12 Coconuts

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 12:53 PM

FWIW, I asked ZWO if there would be a mono version of this camera.  Alas, the senor only comes with a Bayer color filter array.  So no mono version.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin


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#13 MapleEve

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 01:21 PM

FWIW, I asked ZWO if there would be a mono version of this camera.  Alas, the senor only comes with a Bayer color filter array.  So no mono version.
 
All the best,
 
Kevin


Anyway, you can always mod it to mono, since microlens surface for BSI camera is to prevent colormix Effect (dunno the exact name), and you get the exactly the same QE if you remove the microlens. But non-BSI sensor is another story then.

I would say, the performance of modded mono of IMX533 may 20% better than ICX694/695, since the dark current, readout noise and etc.

#14 Coconuts

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 01:52 PM

MapleEve:  I have some friends whose companies could use the mono version of the IMX533, in healthy quantities, but are you sure that modding to remove the Bayer filter array (which I think is integral to the sensor, not a separate part as the front filter is) is really a thing?  If it requires dissolving the filter array off, that is probably too weird.

 

Can anyone suggest a similar but mono diagonal/BSI/good QE/low read noise astro camera that could be repurposed for life science applications?  Exposures are short (20 ms to 4 s), so low dark current is nice but less relevant.  The motive is to save them a lot of money and yet provide what could easily be near equal performance compared to the current Hahamatsu/Andor/Photometrics life science cameras.  It could be that astro imaging is commoditizing high-performance BSI CMOS sensors, and that the special moniker "sCMOS" (Scientific CMOS) is now nearly irrelevant.  Read noise is unlikely to go negative, or QE go above 100%.

 

All the best,

 

Kevin


Edited by Coconuts, 25 November 2019 - 02:02 PM.


#15 MapleEve

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 02:05 PM

MapleEve:  I have some friends whose companies could use the mono version of the IMX533, in healthy quantities, but are you sure that modding to remove the Bayer filter array (which I think is integral to the sensor, not a separate part as the front filter is) is really a thing?  If it requires dissolving the filter array off, that is probably too weird.
 
Can anyone suggest a similar but mono diagonal/BSI/good QE/low read noise astro camera that could be repurposed for life science applications?  Exposures are short (20 ms to 4 s), so low dark current is nice but less relevant.
 
All the best,
 
Kevin


The way of remove modern sensor's CFA and along with its microlens is chemical way. There is a vendor in China selling mono mod of QHY168/247/367 and they are cooperating with QHY headquarters to provide after sales.

1.png

So I was thinking the same way as you, if there's possible way to mod it and replace my 695A.
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#16 saguaro

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 08:37 AM

Will an uncooled version be offered?



#17 DrGomer

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 01:34 PM

Any word on when these will be shipping out to the masses?



#18 MapleEve

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 02:59 PM

post-319546-0-71043100-1574797710.png

 

Update,

 

Just received maintained 071MC-C and a brand new 2nd sets of 1600MM today, the ASI533MC is doing darks right now, and the master dark will be out soon.

 

Have done a little comparison with cooling:

 

Since the chip power is a bit higher than any other sony chips, IMX533 may generate more heat during working time.

 

1.png

 

ZWO ASI071MC Cool vs ZWO ASI533MC Pro

「Left MDL Window」      「Right SGP Window」

 

2.jpg

ZWO ASI1600MM Pro Gen 2019 vs ZWO ASI533MC Pro

「Left SGP Window」      「Right SGP Window」

 

Would like to use my outreach powerbank Yeti 400 to try the actual watt the other day.


Edited by MapleEve, 26 November 2019 - 03:02 PM.


#19 Kaydubbed

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:23 PM

post-319546-0-71043100-1574797710.png

 

Update,

 

Just received maintained 071MC-C and a brand new 2nd sets of 1600MM today, the ASI533MC is doing darks right now, and the master dark will be out soon.

 

Have done a little comparison with cooling:

 

Since the chip power is a bit higher than any other sony chips, IMX533 may generate more heat during working time.

 

attachicon.gif 1.png

 

ZWO ASI071MC Cool vs ZWO ASI533MC Pro

「Left MDL Window」      「Right SGP Window」

 

attachicon.gif 2.jpg

ZWO ASI1600MM Pro Gen 2019 vs ZWO ASI533MC Pro

「Left SGP Window」      「Right SGP Window」

 

Would like to use my outreach powerbank Yeti 400 to try the actual watt the other day.

It would be good to distinguish two things:

 

Time and power to temperature equilibrium

 

Power required to maintain set-temps

 

For example, the asi294 likes a solid 10 minutes working hard at its set temp to get the sensor cooled evenly, but after it reaches its temp and equilibrium, its consumption drops significantly. 


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#20 MapleEve

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Posted 26 November 2019 - 04:37 PM

It would be good to distinguish two things:
 
Time and power to temperature equilibrium
 
Power required to maintain set-temps
 
For example, the asi294 likes a solid 10 minutes working hard at its set temp to get the sensor cooled evenly, but after it reaches its temp and equilibrium, its consumption drops significantly.

Hi, Kevin
 
That's definitely what I am planing to do.
 
Will bring my Yeti 400 Portable Power Station to home, it my only digital power meter on its screen, and try with 3 same brand 12V DC adapter and run cooling with 3 cameras in 3 SGP set to cool in 0 min to -15C at nearly the same time. Then the data is more accurate. After that, I will test the data one by one.
 
==============================================
 
To follow up with more test results, I finally done 200 darks for both 300s and 60s, will do some postprocessing today or tomorrow.
 
And to more accurate evaluate the dark current in 16 bit, I uploaded few D/B/F files and Master Dark in the old google drive link from OP: 

https://drive.google...c3N?usp=sharing
 
You can measure the result by yourself in PI's Basic CCD Parameters.
 
With Target's raw fits, I've uploaded to my Astrobin's public pool:

https://www.astrobin...cdatapools/124/

 

===============================================

 

To be said, no amp light found on 300s Master Dark, buy I would like to try an 1200s and a 3600s to check if there is any.
 
 
 
Maple


Edited by MapleEve, 27 November 2019 - 03:28 AM.


#21 ChrisWhite

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 08:01 PM

The data you shared looks really clean.  The noise profile will be very nice to work with.  Reminds me of the 183 without the ampglow.  Square sensor is nice as well.  I'm certainly interested.  I'd put this on my edge for planetary and lunar and on a piggyback camera lens for WA stuff. 


Edited by ChrisWhite, 27 November 2019 - 08:06 PM.


#22 telfish

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 09:07 PM

Thanks for the info. Almost ready to pull the trigger on one of these.


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#23 MapleEve

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 06:17 AM

Updates
 
To push the dark amp glow test more harder, I was doing both 900s, 1200s, 2000s darks for them and here is the compared screenshot with both 294MC, 183MC, 1600MM and 071MC. 
 
(Please ignore the instrument name)

=======================================================
IMX533 part
 
533-900s.png
900s, nope
 
533-1200s.png

1200s, nope
 
533-2000s.png

2000s, nope, that's the longest dark time you can set in SGP.


Maple

#24 MapleEve

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 06:17 AM

=======================================================
IMX294 part

294-100s.png
100s

294-300s.png
300s

=======================================================
IMX183 part

183-300s.png
300s

=======================================================
1600MM part

1600-180s.png
180s

1600-300s.png
300s

1600-600s.png
600s

=======================================================
IMX071 part

071-300s.png
300s


For CMOS sensor, calibration of Master Dark with amp glow will impact the area SNR. That said, without amp glow, you get full screen nearly the same SNR.

Feel free to download the Darks, Flats, Bias, DarkFlats and other test material at shared Google Drive:

https://drive.google...c3N?usp=sharing

The amp glow test raw fits also included.

=======================================================
 
The 1st batch of post processing result is out too.

309d96b4-58c7-4dec-af56-b2a390fb2aa0-157
 
https://www.astrobin...3cat1n/?nc=user
 
a72bc238-35dc-4f9c-ac97-a63fc36d5e88-157
 
https://www.astrobin...0njzvp/?nc=user
 
1c4b9747-e221-4b59-aa49-48d004c1b30a-157
 
https://www.astrobin...xh9hmm/?nc=user
 
Personally I was not satisfied of my post processing, heavy denoise ruined some low SNR pat due to lack of integration time  and the most important part is I left my EFW home so they are shot without UV/IR cut.
 
Please share your thoughts about those 3 targets, I will have time to re-do the post processing someday.

Was able to record the de-linear processing of IC434 https://www.youtube....h?v=tgilGuJRkHg

Edited by MapleEve, 28 November 2019 - 05:28 PM.

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#25 ChrisWhite

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 09:06 AM

Would you be willing to share the integrations of the targets above?  Thank you.




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