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ASILive - new EAA software

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108 replies to this topic

#101 roelb

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 08:13 PM

this link to Facebook works: https://www.facebook...573717452677462



#102 va1erian

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Posted Yesterday, 04:30 AM

  I think the ASIAir could be a game changer for EAA.  The ability to capture, stack, and display images full screen on a high resolution tablet like an ipad is really exciting. 

The world's economy is arguably slowing down, and disposal income spending is decreasing. In these conditions, ZWO might be looking for the new markets for their cameras. On the ZWO website, I noticed the ZWO staff was keen to communicate with the people who stated they tried to adapt the ZWO cameras for industrial applications and for microscopy.

 

A simple-to-do EAA might just be that emerging market for ZWO. The stars are aligning for it: the new, sensitive sensors come to the market that are inexpensive as well. There is a plentitude of good and inexpensive telescopes and mounts. The only thing which ZWO needs to do is integration of the equipment via writing software, and ASI Studio seems to be it. The cheap and easy EAA systems could be used for educational purposes by the schools, and that's a huge market.

 

I have seen a company in my home country which started to commercialise their research Scanning Tunnelling Microscope. They produced the first commercial samples, and they were cheap and nasty, and they positioned them for the educational institutions. As time went, and their income grew, they improved their STMs, and then they became the No. 2 seller in the world of the STM systems for the university researchers. This seems to be a universal path (look at the path of the South Korean car manufacturers since the 1980s).

 

Maybe this is what ZWO intends to do, and will experience. I already see them doing it, they came up to the market with the "professional" kind of cameras -- 2600, 6200, and 533 ! Grab the cheap cameras while they are available  ;-)



#103 DSO_Viewer

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Posted Yesterday, 12:33 PM

The world's economy is arguably slowing down, and disposal income spending is decreasing. In these conditions, ZWO might be looking for the new markets for their cameras. On the ZWO website, I noticed the ZWO staff was keen to communicate with the people who stated they tried to adapt the ZWO cameras for industrial applications and for microscopy.

 

A simple-to-do EAA might just be that emerging market for ZWO. The stars are aligning for it: the new, sensitive sensors come to the market that are inexpensive as well. There is a plentitude of good and inexpensive telescopes and mounts. The only thing which ZWO needs to do is integration of the equipment via writing software, and ASI Studio seems to be it. The cheap and easy EAA systems could be used for educational purposes by the schools, and that's a huge market.

 

I have seen a company in my home country which started to commercialise their research Scanning Tunnelling Microscope. They produced the first commercial samples, and they were cheap and nasty, and they positioned them for the educational institutions. As time went, and their income grew, they improved their STMs, and then they became the No. 2 seller in the world of the STM systems for the university researchers. This seems to be a universal path (look at the path of the South Korean car manufacturers since the 1980s).

 

Maybe this is what ZWO intends to do, and will experience. I already see them doing it, they came up to the market with the "professional" kind of cameras -- 2600, 6200, and 533 ! Grab the cheap cameras while they are available  ;-)

I would not call the ASI183, ASI294 ASI1600 etc. cheap non-professional cameras. There is the Pro versions for professional and from what I have watched on NSN.com, I would not call the ASI533 professional with their poor quality control producing dust and even a thumb print on the glass of the sensor (not by the owner who was broadcasting) plus it seems to be defective showing a ton of warm pixels. The owner says that it might be again lack of quality control and they might have forgotten or used only a little of the heat transfer paste between the cold finger and sensor.

 

Steve



#104 Alien Observatory

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Posted Yesterday, 10:24 PM

I would not call the ASI183, ASI294 ASI1600 etc. cheap non-professional cameras. There is the Pro versions for professional and from what I have watched on NSN.com, I would not call the ASI533 professional with their poor quality control producing dust and even a thumb print on the glass of the sensor (not by the owner who was broadcasting) plus it seems to be defective showing a ton of warm pixels. The owner says that it might be again lack of quality control and they might have forgotten or used only a little of the heat transfer paste between the cold finger and sensor.

 

Steve

To be fair and open minded, my ASI533 has no finger prints or dust bunnies...Maybe the bcast would have been better if the gain was not set to High and Bin 2,3 or 4 was used.  I have seen in the past years the operational settings of many ZWO cam operators set the Gain to 300, 400 or maxed out at High, Stretch as far as possible making noise and warm pixels abundant, exhibit poor performance and destroy the Well Depth of the cam.

 

I would refer to it as Instant Gratification (which I am guilty of from time to time).  My personal experience is to "Slow Down" and let the Cam and SW have a chance to actually work, which is not shared by many folks on this forum.  Just changing the Gain from High to Unity requires several minutes to dump the heat load and stabilize at the set cooling temperature.

 

Todays "Low Cost" CMOS cams need Low to Unity Gain, Binned if possible and Stack many Frames in Auto (ASIlive) before stretching with the SW to give Good results.  It makes no sense to bcasting a 0.3 arc/sec per pixel scale image when we at home with our 1080P or better monitors can never see anything better than the 1 or 2 arc/sec per pixel in a live bcast.... Pat Utah smile.gif


Edited by Alien Observatory, Today, 03:43 PM.

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#105 va1erian

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Posted Today, 05:56 AM

 I have seen in the past years the operational settings of many ZWO cam operators set the Gain to 300, 400 or maxed out at High, Stretch as far as possible making noise and warm pixels abundant, exhibit poor performance and destroy the Well Depth of the cam.

 

I would refer to it as Instant Gratification (which I am guilty of from time to time).  My personal experience is to "Slow Down" and let the Cam and SW have a chance to actually work, which is not shared by many folks on this forum. 

A few days ago, I started EAA with an ASI120MC-S camera. I had subscribed to your philosophy, and used low gain. My target was Trapezium M42. The SC live-stacked image has nebulity but its size less than I saw in others' captures. I continued my investigation, and put a maximum gain. The nebulosity poped up straight away, and it had a contrasty shape. I think I was onto a winner, because the shorter exposure allowed the stars to be smaller. However, colour noise was large. I substracted the dark frame, but it was a paid feature, and it generated colour granularity. I ended buying the SC Pro.

 

I also tried ASI Live. I was traight away smashed with the horrible colour noise. Obviously, their default is the highest gain. That's how they are going to go about their enabling software for their emerging product, EAA. I have not used ASI Live since then.


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#106 mclewis1

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Posted Today, 09:14 AM

...

I also tried ASI Live. I was traight away smashed with the horrible colour noise. Obviously, their default is the highest gain. That's how they are going to go about their enabling software for their emerging product, EAA. I have not used ASI Live since then.

That makes sense. ASILive is likely biased towards the use of newer cameras which have lower noise and more sensitive sensors. The older AR0130 color sensor in your ZWO camera is indeed a noisy little sucker but with a little tweaking (and stacking and darks) you can certainly do very effective EAA observing with it.

 

This is a good example that due to the differences between various cameras for the need for more flexible controls rather than just a really simple limited or locked down interface. This is often also one of the major differences between basic imaging software and apps specifically designed for EAA observing.


Edited by mclewis1, Today, 09:15 AM.

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#107 alphatripleplus

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Posted Today, 10:32 AM

The very first time I used ASILive, I seem to recall the initial gain setting the software defaulted to was medium. If you then change any of the settings, e.g. gain and exposure, and then take some pics and exit the software, the next time you re-open ASILive it will start with the settings from the last session; I'm not sure it does that for every setting, but I think it does for many.



#108 DSO_Viewer

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Posted Today, 11:51 AM

To be fair and open minded, my ASI533 has no finger prints or dust bunnies...Maybe the bcast would have been better if the gain was not set to High and Bin 2,3 or 4 was used.  I have seen in the past years the operational settings of many ZWO cam operators set the Gain to 300, 400 or maxed out at High, Stretch as far as possible making noise and warm pixels abundant, exhibit poor performance and destroy the Well Depth of the cam.

 

I would refer to it as Instant Gratification (which I am guilty of from time to time).  My personal experience is to "Slow Down" and let the Cam and SW have a chance to actually work, which is not shared by many folks on this forum.  Just changing the Gain from High to Unity requires several minutes to dump the heat load and stabilize at the set cooling temperature.

 

Todays "Low Cost" CMOS cams need Low to Unity Gain, Binned if possible and Stack many Frames in Auto (ASIlive) before stretching with the SW to give Good results.  It makes no sense to bcasting a 0.3 arc/sec per pixel scale image when we at home with our 1080P or better monitors can never see anything better the 1 or 2 arc/sec per pixel in a live bcast.... Pat Utah smile.gif

No, it has nothing to do with using high gain. I have watched broadcasts using other cameras such as the ASI294 & 183MC and there was hardly any to no warm pixels even when zoomed in tight. This is a quality control issue with this ASI533.

 

Steve 



#109 Alien Observatory

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Posted Today, 03:02 PM

No, it has nothing to do with using high gain. I have watched broadcasts using other cameras such as the ASI294 & 183MC and there was hardly any to no warm pixels even when zoomed in tight. This is a quality control issue with this ASI533.

 

Steve 

Steve I am sure you are correct and I am sure ZWO (or any others the sell ZWO cams) will correct the issue with that cam or any other ZWO cam that has any issues.  I know for a Fact I returned a ZWO 178 Color cam as I could not get the Color Balance Correct...turns out it was my SW...But the cam was replaced with no questions or problems... Pat Utah :)


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