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ASILive - new EAA software

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#126 alphatripleplus

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Posted 31 January 2020 - 11:06 AM

Sam, I am using ASIStudio. When I open ASIStudio and pick ASILive, it will always default to the same save path, even after I have chosen to save to a different user specified location. The software does not remember the last saved location.

Okay, I removed  the old beta version of ASILIve  and ASIStudio, and then re-installed ASIStudio and I think ASILive is now "remembering" the last saved file path as I am now testing it with daytime captures. So it would appear that maybe the clean rebuild has it now working in this regard.

 

Anyone who has an old beta version may want to remove the beta before installing  ASIStudio to avoid the problem I was having with save paths.


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#127 wenjha

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 09:07 AM

Okay, I removed  the old beta version of ASILIve  and ASIStudio, and then re-installed ASIStudio and I think ASILive is now "remembering" the last saved file path as I am now testing it with daytime captures. So it would appear that maybe the clean rebuild has it now working in this regard.

 

Anyone who has an old beta version may want to remove the beta before installing  ASIStudio to avoid the problem I was having with save paths.

this is a bug we will fix with next version

 

now the path will be saved if you click the X on the window to quit

but won't save if you click ok to quit



#128 alphatripleplus

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 09:48 AM

this is a bug we will fix with next version

 

now the path will be saved if you click the X on the window to quit

but won't save if you click ok to quit

Thanks. Sam. 

 

Tomorrow night I should be able to test dark subtraction with the current software version, using H-alpha subs (that have lots of amp glow) on my ASI290MM mini. It should be easy for me to tell if the dark subtraction is working with H-alpha subs.


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#129 Stargazer3236

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 11:40 PM

I installed ASIStudio and it would not run for me. I plugged in my camera and it still didn't do anything. What gives?


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#130 alphatripleplus

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 12:11 AM

Thanks. Sam. 

 

Tomorrow night I should be able to test dark subtraction with the current software version, using H-alpha subs (that have lots of amp glow) on my ASI290MM mini. It should be easy for me to tell if the dark subtraction is working with H-alpha subs.

I can confirm that dark subtraction is working in the current version of ASILive in ASIStudio. I was able to create a master dark and subtract it in ASILive to remove residual amp glow when stacking H-alpha subs during my EAA session this evening. As ASILive only subtracts darks when doing a livestack, it was easy to see the amp glow visible on individual subs "vanish" when switching from single frame to livestack viewing mode.

 

Overall, I think this first production version is very easy to use and with dark subtraction working and robust live stacking, it is worth trying.


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#131 wenjha

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 01:45 AM

I installed ASIStudio and it would not run for me. I plugged in my camera and it still didn't do anything. What gives?

you need to choose which app to run

such like ASICap Live or Img


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#132 elrico

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 01:26 PM

 Image aquisition was easy but ASI Live keeps freezing after just 1 sub exp ( various exp tried 1/2/3/5/secs etc and then programme  crashes.

ASI 533 pro Skywatcher espirit 80mm

regards

eric



#133 Noah4x4

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 01:47 PM

 Image aquisition was easy but ASI Live keeps freezing after just 1 sub exp ( various exp tried 1/2/3/5/secs etc and then programme  crashes.

ASI 533 pro Skywatcher espirit 80mm

regards

eric

What computer processor, RAM and HDD/SSD Elrico?

 

Can it handle this functionality with a 9 megapixel resolution camera? I had to upgrade my computer when I embraced the similar Atik Infinity software and double digit megapixel. 

 

However, I have just purchased a ZWO ASI224mc for planetary. I love my Atik Horizon and Atik Infinity (software) for DSOs. But I didn't enjoy SharpCap and although I use its autofocus before switching to Infinity I find Sequence Generator Pro overly complex, . It's early days, but my first impression of ASILive is that ZWO have made a sensible move.

 

It's not quite mirroring Infinity (yet), but it's solved the problem of ease of use and lesser learning curve. I will continue to use my Horizon/Infinity for DSO's, but welcome the ASIStudio and ASILive as a newbie to ZWO. I don't see a problem that each are dedicated to a single manufacturer. In fact, that's an advantage as it removes complexity. I have been trying to understand SG Pro 'Profiles' for a year and still havn't worked out the relationships!


Edited by Noah4x4, 21 April 2020 - 01:49 PM.


#134 elrico

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 02:24 PM

What computer processor, RAM and HDD/SSD Elrico?

 

Can it handle this functionality with a 9 megapixel resolution camera? I had to upgrade my computer when I embraced the similar Atik Infinity software and double digit megapixel. 

 

However, I have just purchased a ZWO ASI224mc for planetary. I love my Atik Horizon and Atik Infinity (software) for DSOs. But I didn't enjoy SharpCap and although I use its autofocus before switching to Infinity I find Sequence Generator Pro overly complex, . It's early days, but my first impression of ASILive is that ZWO have made a sensible move.

 

It's not quite mirroring Infinity (yet), but it's solved the problem of ease of use and lesser learning curve. I will continue to use my Horizon/Infinity for DSO's, but welcome the ASIStudio and ASILive as a newbie to ZWO. I don't see a problem that each are dedicated to a single manufacturer. In fact, that's an advantage as it removes complexity. I have been trying to understand SG Pro 'Profiles' for a year and still havn't worked out the relationships!

Hi Noah, I have ran Atik infinity on the same laptop no issues- Win 10 AMD Radeon RS Graphcs, 2.20 GH, 8 GB Ram 

(6.25 usable) 64bit x 64 processors.

I really struggled with Sharpcap and found eternal issues with Stacking ( which I believe is a bit hit and miss on star count),

So decided on ASI Studio live as I do EAA, question also, what exactly is the DSO for with preview window ? if you cant stack in it, or can you. 

ps What settings do you use in the software,it looks simple enough, but maybe I am doing something wrong anyway/

Tonight is clear again, I am going to try USB 2 connection see if that makes a difference


Edited by elrico, 21 April 2020 - 02:32 PM.


#135 Noah4x4

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 02:49 PM

Hi Noah, I have ran Atik infinity on the same laptop no issues- Win 10 AMD Radeon RS Graphcs, 2.20 GH, 8 GB Ram 

(6.25 usable) 64bit x 64 processors.

I really struggled with Sharpcap and found eternal issues with Stacking ( which I believe is a bit hit and miss on star count),

So decided on ASI Studio live as I do EAA, question also, what exactly is the DSO for with preview window ? if you cant stack in it, or can you. 

ps What settings do you use in the software,it looks simple enough, but maybe I am doing something wrong anyway/

Tonight is clear again, I am going to try USB 2 connection see if that makes a difference

 This might be completely unrelated, but I have read of various driver problems with AMD Radeon and Windows 10. Suggest you try reinstalling your ZWO camera drivers. I  once had to reinstall my Atik Drivers after a Windows update deleted them.

 

I too struggled with SharpCap, but that was definitely a driver issue and it's failure to recognise Atik presets. Because my ASI224mc is new, I started with a clean sheet of downloaded drivers and software. But it seems to be OK so far.  I will get back to you about settings. I want to practice a bit more with gain etc. But I have had success so far, but need to refine my ZWO skills. Wish it would run in Infinity! 


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#136 elrico

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 03:52 AM

 This might be completely unrelated, but I have read of various driver problems with AMD Radeon and Windows 10. Suggest you try reinstalling your ZWO camera drivers. I  once had to reinstall my Atik Drivers after a Windows update deleted them.

 

I too struggled with SharpCap, but that was definitely a driver issue and it's failure to recognise Atik presets. Because my ASI224mc is new, I started with a clean sheet of downloaded drivers and software. But it seems to be OK so far.  I will get back to you about settings. I want to practice a bit more with gain etc. But I have had success so far, but need to refine my ZWO skills. Wish it would run in Infinity! 

Hi Noah, Changed to my old laptop and everything worked in ASIlive so maybe a driver problem as you suggested.

Will try Sharpcap again tonight if clear.

regards

eric



#137 Noah4x4

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 05:41 AM

Hi Noah, Changed to my old laptop and everything worked in ASIlive so maybe a driver problem as you suggested.

Will try Sharpcap again tonight if clear.

regards

eric

Excellent news Eric. 

 

Just out if curiosity, does your old laptop which now works fine have an Intel or AMD processor? 

 

I ask because I use some specialist video software for broadcasting cricket matches which does not support AMD hardware encoding, and is therefore dependent of software encoding. Much also depends upon if you have Intel or Nvidia graphics hardware. If it is an Intel processor, it might point to an issue with AMD. Maybe others can try ASILive with AMD processors and see If your original problem occurs.


Edited by Noah4x4, 23 April 2020 - 05:42 AM.

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#138 ccs_hello

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 05:07 PM

Modern Intel CPU has some multimedia extension and vector math instructions.  For example, AVX2 on modern CORE CPUs, while ATOM class does not have.

AMD CPU also has its own "almost" equivalent instructions.  A mature software application should be able to take advantage of either camp but switching dynamically.

Isn't it nice to have competition around?


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#139 Noah4x4

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 12:15 PM

As an Atik camera owner I love the simplicity of Atik Infinity EAA software. So, having just taken delivery of a ZWO camera I wasn't looking forward to learning a new software suite. But on first light, I think ASILive is a real game changer for  ZWO and for the EAA observing community. 

 

Applications like Sharpcap and Sequence Generator Pro are fantastic for EAA Imagers. However, for EAA Observers they are unnecessarily complex. ASILive now ensures that ZWO offer similar simplicity and functionality to Atik's Infinity. 

 

Folk that take up EAA because of light pollution prevents visual observing do not want to climb an enormous leaning curve. Now both Atik Infinity and ZWO ASILive avoid that. If they later wish to embrace EAA imaging, (hence Astrophotography), they can always migrate to Sharpcap, SG Pro or Maxim DL having first enjoyed a primary software education.  But having a gentler entry level of EAA software is patently desirable. Having said that, ASILive now permits darks/flats on the fly. Wake up Atik, you have lost ground! 

 

I do stress that this review is from the perspective of an EAA Observer. ASILive might not meet the needs of EAA Imagers that seek a higher degree of functionality. But my first light impression is that ASImg might achieve that. The simplicity of all applications in the ASIStudio are laudable.

 

Lastly, I have found this great video. What I thought was revealing was the simplicity of using the brightness, contrast and saturation settings and their use BEFORE hitting AUTO-histogram.  I was doing the reverse. In barely 20 minutes of watching this video I came away confident, albeit it did help that I have prior mastery of Infinity. 

 

See https://youtu.be/e2CygXmJVto


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#140 DSO_Viewer

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 08:58 PM

As an Atik camera owner I love the simplicity of Atik Infinity EAA software. So, having just taken delivery of a ZWO camera I wasn't looking forward to learning a new software suite. But on first light, I think ASILive is a real game changer for  ZWO and for the EAA observing community. 

 

Applications like Sharpcap and Sequence Generator Pro are fantastic for EAA Imagers. However, for EAA Observers they are unnecessarily complex. ASILive now ensures that ZWO offer similar simplicity and functionality to Atik's Infinity. 

 

Folk that take up EAA because of light pollution prevents visual observing do not want to climb an enormous leaning curve. Now both Atik Infinity and ZWO ASILive avoid that. If they later wish to embrace EAA imaging, (hence Astrophotography), they can always migrate to Sharpcap, SG Pro or Maxim DL having first enjoyed a primary software education.  But having a gentler entry level of EAA software is patently desirable. Having said that, ASILive now permits darks/flats on the fly. Wake up Atik, you have lost ground! 

 

I do stress that this review is from the perspective of an EAA Observer. ASILive might not meet the needs of EAA Imagers that seek a higher degree of functionality. But my first light impression is that ASImg might achieve that. The simplicity of all applications in the ASIStudio are laudable.

 

Lastly, I have found this great video. What I thought was revealing was the simplicity of using the brightness, contrast and saturation settings and their use BEFORE hitting AUTO-histogram.  I was doing the reverse. In barely 20 minutes of watching this video I came away confident, albeit it did help that I have prior mastery of Infinity. 

 

See https://youtu.be/e2CygXmJVto

wow, I did not know we had two EAA categories one being EAA imagers and the other EAA observers. I constantly watch and hope to broadcast on Night Skies Network many who use Sharpcap with their ZWO camera and obtain fabulous near real time results. Just because you had driver issues with your Atik camera with Shapcap does not make it a Sharpcap issue and down grade it as not very good EAA software. Surely there are many Sharpcap users here who are very happy and use this program with not much difficulty esp. with the great startup manual from Astrojedi.

 

Steve


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#141 Noah4x4

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 03:34 AM

wow, I did not know we had two EAA categories one being EAA imagers and the other EAA observers. I constantly watch and hope to broadcast on Night Skies Network many who use Sharpcap with their ZWO camera and obtain fabulous near real time results. Just because you had driver issues with your Atik camera with Shapcap does not make it a Sharpcap issue and down grade it as not very good EAA software. Surely there are many Sharpcap users here who are very happy and use this program with not much difficulty esp. with the great startup manual from Astrojedi.

 

Steve

 

Yes we do have people at opposite ends of the EAA spectrum and once again you are being deliberately provocative to those who use EAA merely for observing. Why?

 

The original purpose of EAA was simply to view what could not be seen though an eyepiece, for example to show youngsters at Outreach near live views, when they don't want to wait 30 minutes for an image to develop, or to overcome light pollution.

 

The fact that this Forum has been overtaken by Imagers is GOOD, as new software techniques benefit all. But it's important that you respect there are EAA participants that have ZERO interest in photography.

 

What bit of "Sharpcap is fantastic for imagers" suggests that I think it is a bad application?

 

My perfectly reasonable observation is merely that it is unnecessarily complex  (e.g. over sophisticated) for the needs of those that don't want to produce award winning pictures and merely want to observe near live. By contrast, Atik Infinity and ASILive are far simpler for that less challenging purpose. However,  Infinity is flawed for Imagers because it doesn't include darks/lights/auto-removal of hot pixels. However, ASILive does. How is that review unjust? Sharpcap now has a serious competitor in ZWO circles.

 

Where do I mention Atik/SharpCap CMOS driver issues in my post above? Again, this is deliberate provocation by you and EAA observers won't be intimidated by your bullying. It's true that I have mentioned this elsewhere but I have never apportioned blame and it's not relevant to this thread about ASILive.

 

But given you have raised this as an objection, the facts are that I personally put Atik Support in touch with Robin Glover at Robins request in about May 2019 and between them it was sorted by October 2019. There are long and frustrating threads in the SharpCap and Atik  Forums because the Horizon would not work with SharpCap. However, the long delay meant I discovered Sequence Generator.Pro. However, due to the unnecessary complexity/sophistication of SG Pro for mere observing, I use its autofocus before switching to the far simpler Infinity. ASILive similarly doesn't support my focuser, so I will probably continue that practice with both Infinity and ASILive dependent on which camera selected.

 

I am sure existing Sharpcap owners will continue to support it and so they should as it is an outstanding application for all EAA purposes. But its learning curve compared to ASILive suggests to me that whether an EAA Observer or EAA Imager, ASILive will possibly become the software of choice for NEW owners, just as Infinity is the natural choice for NEW Atik owners. Having a gentler, easier to use entry option must be a positive. Folk can always graduate to more sophisticated options later (But ASILive does seems similar to Sharpcap, but simpler as it doesn't have to wrestle with multiple manufacturers/cameras).

 

Lastly, now that an easy option is available to me and my new ASI294 (ASILive), I too will probably embrace darks/flats on the fly as I do want the best views, albeit the odd hot pixel or vignetting has never bothered me before. But it doesn't mean I will ever routinely <save> images, My sole interest is observing and not in art. So please respect there are EAA participants that are not Astrophotographers and cease these bullying tactics. We won't be silenced by Imagers intent on driving us out of what was originally our forum. Can't we just play nicely? 


Edited by Noah4x4, 25 April 2020 - 04:29 AM.

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#142 DSO_Viewer

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 11:56 AM

Noah, I am not trying to come across as bullying but expressing my views. Every software used for EAA has its pros and cons and some are more intuitive than others. I only got into this EAA hobby 3 years ago and the first year I was very intimidated to use Sharpcap Pro after reading a few posts about how hard this program is to use. I just bit the bullet and tried Sharpcap and there was no turning back. What helped me was kind people here like Astrojedi who wrote and easy to follow manual to get you up and running. I do not want any beginners to go through what I when through and be scared off to try this wonderful program mainly created for live EAA deep sky observing. 90% of my EAA is capturing 30 seconds or less with my C11 sct or 8" RC and live stacking them for 5 minutes total. I do use a live dark master but have not tried flats yet. I consider myself an observer but if this makes me an EAA imager then so be it.

 

Steve  



#143 Noah4x4

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 12:44 PM

Steve, I am pleased you acknowledge the learning curve of Sharpcap is steep. From my early dabbling with ASIStudio, I reckon new owners of ZWO cameras (notably beginners) with zero experience of Sharpcap should try ASILive first. I never thought I would ever say this, but I think it beats Atik Infinity for simplicity and is definitely more feature rich, and probably on a par with SharpCap.

 

I have not tried the darks/flats/remove hot pixels features yet, but I did work out all the functionality of the ASIStudio suite in very few minutes. It obviously helps to have prior familiarity with Atik Infinity and Atik Dusk, and to a lesser extent Sharpcap and Sequence Generator Pro. But the way forward has to be offering greater simplicity for new starters and ZWO has a winner.  It's hard enough wrestling with focus, FOV and mechanical problems with mount, without climbing a mountain to learn new software.


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#144 DSO_Viewer

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 10:01 PM

Steve, I am pleased you acknowledge the learning curve of Sharpcap is steep. From my early dabbling with ASIStudio, I reckon new owners of ZWO cameras (notably beginners) with zero experience of Sharpcap should try ASILive first. I never thought I would ever say this, but I think it beats Atik Infinity for simplicity and is definitely more feature rich, and probably on a par with SharpCap.

 

I have not tried the darks/flats/remove hot pixels features yet, but I did work out all the functionality of the ASIStudio suite in very few minutes. It obviously helps to have prior familiarity with Atik Infinity and Atik Dusk, and to a lesser extent Sharpcap and Sequence Generator Pro. But the way forward has to be offering greater simplicity for new starters and ZWO has a winner.  It's hard enough wrestling with focus, FOV and mechanical problems with mount, without climbing a mountain to learn new software.

Noah, thank you for seeing my point. We have different views and that makes life interesting. We are very fortunate to have amazing technology these days and it makes EAA so much more enjoyable. Peace to you and stay well during these tough times sir.

 

Steve


Edited by DSO_Viewer, 25 April 2020 - 10:01 PM.


#145 Muleskinner115

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 11:43 AM

Can anybody explain how to take, save, and use darks and flats with the new ASI Live software?  I will use a AT 80 refractor with a ZWO224 camera.

Thanks

Tim



#146 alphatripleplus

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 02:56 PM

For darks, it is fairly straightforward to create a master dark in ASILive:

 

1) In the stacking menu, uncheck the box for Align Frames, and uncheck FWHM limit.

 

2) Cover the scope and start the camera with the desired sub-exposure.

 

3) Start the livestacking button with the above settings (this will create an average stack from a set of individual darks)

 

4) After taking a sufficient number  of frames in the stack, pause the stacking button and the hit the save button.

 

The saved .fits file is your master dark - let's call it "Dark1". In order to use it later, you must adjust the settings in the stacking menu so that they reference the location of "Dark1" wherever you saved ii on your computer as a master dark. It is pretty straightforward, but maybe a little more tedious compared with SharpCap's generation of dark frames.

 

I don't use flats, but the procedure would be analogous to what I described for darks, and the process for darks has worked for me in ASILive.

 

Just remember that when you have created a dark, and want to use livestacking with your light frames, you should go back into the settings for the livestacking menu and check both "the Align Frames" and "FWHM filter" boxes so that they are being used in livestacking. (The unchecking is done only to create a dark frame, not for stacking real light frames).


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#147 Muleskinner115

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 08:50 AM

Very good explanation of creating, saving and using darks!  I appreciate what you did for me. Thank you for taking the time.

Tim


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#148 alphatripleplus

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 05:12 PM

Sure, Tim and thanks. According to the ASILive developers, you can also create a master dark or flat using other software (other than ASILive) and use it in ASILive as long as it has been saved as a  .fits file for ASILive to read. The problem with not using ASILive to create darks, is that you should really match the gain setting when doing this with the gain for the actual light frames. ASILive has 3 gain settings - Low, Medium, High and I'm not sure of the exact equivalent numerical gain of each using, say, SharpCap. So I stick to doing darks in ASILive. 

 

At some point in the future, I hope they replace the Low/Medium/High gain settings with a continuous numerical range of values, as is the case with SharpCap.



#149 Clouzot

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 03:18 AM

Innocent question: does anyone know how ASILive subtracts darks?

 

I'm asking because my usual weapon of choice, Sharpcap, seems to implement a half-baked dark calibration, probably for efficiency reasons. The author (Robin) stated that SC was analyzing the dark it loaded, flagging hot pixels as "bad", and computing the average noise level in the dark (random noise). Then dark subtraction amounted to:

- using the neighboring pixels in the light frame to replace pixels flagged as "bad"

- subtracting the average noise level equally to each pixel (kind of an anti-offset effect, if you ask me).

 

That often gives an imperfect dark calibration, with hot pixels making colored streaks (every Sharpcap user with an OSC camera will have seen that effect I guess).

 

I gather it would be almost impossible to achieve a proper dark calibration in real time, because it would mean subtracting pixel per pixel, handling too large images (the light frame and the dark one) in memory. With 20+Mpix cameras, that's a lot.

 

However, does ASILive have the same kind of dark subtraction: do you guys see those dreaded "marching noise" colored streaks when you're livestacking with it?


Edited by Clouzot, 28 April 2020 - 03:19 AM.


#150 alphatripleplus

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 08:23 AM

I do not know the answer to the above question, but I do know that both ASILive and Starlight Live (for SX cameras) allow the user to specify whether hot pixels are to be removed. This is a separate function from dark subtraction in both ASILive and Starlight Live. I suspect that dark subtraction implementation in ASILive is therefore a little different in some ways from SharpCap, but that is a guess.

 

I don't have a colour camera any more, but with my mono ASI290MM  mini I have not noticed any hot pixel streaks in ASILive after dark subtraction,  that would correspond to the imperfect calibration issue you refer to with SharpCap. 




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