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Why did someone bring their 20" instead of their 28"?

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#1 stargazer193857

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 03:48 PM

At a star party, I got to look through a 20" scope, at a very dark site. I struggled to see as much detail as I wanted in a fainter galaxy. The owner told me his 28" would easily show it.


What do you think is more like? He left the 28" home because he did not feel like moving it, or he left it home because he feared a member of the public would fall off the ladder or need the smaller view adjusted more often?

#2 photomagica

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:08 PM

Or was this the star party equivalent of the "my other car is a Maserati" bumper stickersmile.gif



#3 Astro-Master

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:10 PM

You should have asked him.


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#4 sg6

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 04:30 PM

Simple convenience I would guess.

Also could get fed up of people almost queueing for what is after all his scope. You are after all asking why didn't he bring the bigger scope for me to look through? grin.gif grin.gif grin.gif



#5 TOMDEY

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:34 PM

28-inch is possible to haul around... but a Herculean task. I keep my 36-incher at home... in the observatory... just a short stroll from the house... dark rural. But, I bring a 6-incher to star parties ... and show people pictures of my 36-incher...    Tom

 

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#6 Redbetter

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 05:34 PM

You would have to ask him.  I doubt fear of someone falling is a factor (seems to be your phobia.)  Afterall, one can point the tube lower and keep steps to a minimum--that is what I do for small children.

 

Just guessing since we don't know ratios or other specs (driven/undriven), but the 20" is likely considerably more portable than the 28".  That would be enough reason for a public star party.  Set up/footprint can be an issue since there might not be enough space for everyone with a large scope.  This is one of the reasons I don't bring the 20" to some events and will bring a refractor, 8"SCT or 10" Dob instead. 

 

If the set up time is longer, and access with vehicle (trailer?) is more difficult then the 28" would also be less favored.  Short sessions also make even a 20" less desirable.  I almost never bring the 20" to single night/2 hour sessions. 

 

For outreach there is less difference to the public once one gets into this size range.   Unless there are a number of other similarly large scopes, the public gravitates toward the largest one they see.  Targets will be the bright and beautiful for outreach, I doubt anything really faint or less than moderate surface brightness was chosen as a target for the public since many novices would be unable to see it. 

 

I can come up with a number of other reasons that have determined what scope I brought to an event,  but the only way to know what someone else's reasons are is to ask them. 


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#7 EJN

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 11:33 PM

You didn't ask him but ask here instead? Do you think we are psychic and can read minds?

 

foreheadslap.gif  


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#8 Kunama

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:16 AM

My guess is that he knew you would be there trying to mooch a free look and he just wanted to annoy you by bringing the small scope....

at the moment he is at home feeling very smug..... grin.gif

 

For my next star ⭐️ party I am going to setup my FOA60 on the AZEQ6GT for people to look through and just have the TMB-LZOS 152 in an open box nearby.....


Edited by Kunama, 03 December 2019 - 03:18 AM.

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#9 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 07:11 AM

When I do outreach, the largest scope I bring is the 13.1 inch F/5.5. It's plenty capable, the views are excellent, it's quick to setup and it doesn't require a ladder. I can load it in the back of my pickup by hand, it's no lightweight but I can do it.  

 

Seeing what can be seen in a 20 inch plus scope is not a matter of taking a gander a few times, or even observing with one for a year.  It's a learning process.. 

 

I figure if I can see it in my 22 inch, Don Pensack may well be able to see it in his 12.5 inch and Redbetter could easily see some something in his 20 inch that I can't see in my 22 inch and I have thousands and thousands of hours at the eyepiece. 

 

Jon


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#10 skyward_eyes

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 08:56 AM

I use to have a 20” Obsession which I regularly used for outreach. It’s now been sold to fund a 28” specifically being built for outreach.

Large dobs can be quite effective for public viewing. However, once they reach the 100” focal length things can get difficult. You now have a 6 foot ladder to deal with and at times people can get uncomfortable climbing it in the dark.

These larger scopes also require more effort to transport. Sometimes a trailer is needed, larger ladders and heavier components. Without knowing the specs. of his 28” compared to the 20” we wouldn’t really know. There could be a variety of reason he did not bring out the larger scope.
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#11 csa/montana

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 10:56 AM

 

 What do you think is more like? He left the 28" home because he did not feel like moving it, or he left it home because he feared a member of the public would fall off the ladder or need the smaller view adjusted more often?

Frankly, I think it was pretty nice of him to bring the 20", even though it appears it wasn't appreciated by some.  


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#12 dustyc

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:42 PM

I'm grateful anytime I get to look thru the largest scope at the star party I'm attending. 

Might sound odd but I'd rather have a star party group with all types of scopes, rather than a party where everybody brought just one style. Size doesn't matter.


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#13 havasman

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:29 PM

 I struggled to see as much detail as I wanted in a fainter galaxy. 

More experience with larger aperture (like 20") observing would likely have made the observation easy. Observing skill is most often responsible for guest observers' disappointments.

 

Any experience with hauling around a large scope would provide you with several answers to your silly Q. As light gathering increases with big Dob aperture, so too does the PITA factor of moving it as well as the skill and care requirement that falls to the observer.

 

Why ask us when you wouldn't ask him? Maybe on-line anonymity provides you the gall..?

 

Bringing ANY scope to an outreach event should be truly appreciated and criticism of the owner's effort reflects badly on the critic.


Edited by havasman, 03 December 2019 - 03:30 PM.


#14 stargazer193857

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:39 PM

More experience with larger aperture (like 20") observing would likely have made the observation easy. Observing skill is most often responsible for guest observers' disappointments.

Any experience with hauling around a large scope would provide you with several answers to your silly Q. As light gathering increases with big Dob aperture, so too does the PITA factor of moving it as well as the skill and care requirement that falls to the observer.

Why ask us when you wouldn't ask him? Maybe on-line anonymity provides you the gall..?

Bringing ANY scope to an outreach event should be truly appreciated and criticism of the owner's effort reflects badly on the critic.


You are assuming the worst of my motives. The reason I asked was I wanted to know if I should ever buy a 28" in the future or if it is too much PIA. If enough people had replied that liability from ladder falls or too much time finding stuff may have been his motive for leaving the 28" home, I might still consider getting one in the distant future. Since everyone replied that PIA was the likely reason, I'll pass on it. I was not unappreciative. I was shopping and noted that 20" might be a bit dimmer than I'd prefer.

#15 stargazer193857

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 03:49 PM

I use to have a 20” Obsession which I regularly used for outreach. It’s now been sold to fund a 28” specifically being built for outreach.

Large dobs can be quite effective for public viewing. However, once they reach the 100” focal length things can get difficult. You now have a 6 foot ladder to deal with and at times people can get uncomfortable climbing it in the dark.

These larger scopes also require more effort to transport. Sometimes a trailer is needed, larger ladders and heavier components. Without knowing the specs. of his 28” compared to the 20” we wouldn’t really know. There could be a variety of reason he did not bring out the larger scope.


Augustus thought his ladder was a hassle.

If you had a 24" f3, would you bring that to outreach? I'm guessing the answer is no, for the same reason that Jon brings the 13.1" instead of the 16".

I now wonder how much is hassle and how much is that line length only depends on scope length, and most people will be just as amazed by M13 in the smaller aperture as they would be chasing down small stuff in the bigger scope.


So my next question is, do you think he takes his 28" to dark sky sites for private viewing much, assuming it is not houses at one?

#16 skyward_eyes

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:26 PM

I think a lot of it is just personal taste. Outreach is more my thing and I look to make the biggest impact possible. While some might not bring a 24” f/3 out I certainly would. That’s why I’m building this 28” f/3.3. I wanted to make a scope that was large enough to really give people an experience but short enough to be more comfortable. That was the goal from the beginning for this scope.

Everyone is different and it just depends on their goals.

I’m sure the person in question uses their 28” but probably reserves it for more personal viewing. I’ve met many people who do this with their large and or higher end equipment.

Augustus thought his ladder was a hassle.

If you had a 24" f3, would you bring that to outreach? I'm guessing the answer is no, for the same reason that Jon brings the 13.1" instead of the 16".

I now wonder how much is hassle and how much is that line length only depends on scope length, and most people will be just as amazed by M13 in the smaller aperture as they would be chasing down small stuff in the bigger scope.


So my next question is, do you think he takes his 28" to dark sky sites for private viewing much, assuming it is not houses at one?



#17 Redbetter

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Posted 03 December 2019 - 04:52 PM

When folks say their ladder is a hassle for observing, I interpret that to mean they don't have the right ladder for their scope.  The one thing my ladder is sometimes a hassle for is transport.  The way I typically have it loaded is crossways in the bed so that it locks everything in place, but that is for solo observing.  I have to arrange things differently if I am hauling my son and his 10" Dob.  The ladder ends up tied down to the top of the load.

 

100" focal length only really requires a good two step + platform ladder (unless the observer is short.)  Beyond that focal length the ladder solutions are less ideal, and the length of the ladder and truss poles would make transport trickier--I would likely need to employ some sort of overhead rack on the truck or a trailer.  With anything beyond 25" I would probably need a trailer because the mass and vertical rise into my 4WD truck bed become too challenging.




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