Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Well this is annoying(astrodon)

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
16 replies to this topic

#1 Mbenj2405

Mbenj2405

    Explorer 1

  • ****-
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 60
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2019
  • Loc: head Chezzetcook Nova Scotia Canada

Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:02 PM

I just recieved my new 36mm 3nm filter set from OPT, and the filters are great, tried them out last night on M42 and they cut through the light pollution easily. What is a surprise is the disclaimer that comes with the filters, any edge chips no more than 1mm are perfectly fine for use. In other words, no returns. Luckily mine were undamaged but to the person(s) that get new filters with edge damage that are in "spec" when they go to resell it is really going to affect their value.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20191208_145420.jpg

 

#2 PirateMike

PirateMike

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,960
  • Joined: 27 Sep 2013
  • Loc: A Green Dot On A Blue Sea

Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:21 PM

Astrodon filters may be considered the best, but the filter makers... maybe not so much.

 

For the price of the filters one should expect that they would be perfect.

 

 

Miguel   8-)

 

.


Edited by PirateMike, 08 December 2019 - 02:22 PM.

 

#3 frito

frito

    Vendor - M51 Astro

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 1,496
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2012
  • Loc: Fremont, CA

Posted 08 December 2019 - 02:45 PM

I assume this is just for unmounted filters and in that case that 1mm gets covered anyways i know it does on my 31mm unmounted ZWO's so seems like a smart disclaimer to me nothing more. 


 

#4 vakulenko_sergiy

vakulenko_sergiy

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 220
  • Joined: 10 May 2015
  • Loc: Kiev, UA

Posted 08 December 2019 - 04:10 PM

I assume this is just for unmounted filters and in that case that 1mm gets covered anyways i know it does on my 31mm unmounted ZWO's so seems like a smart disclaimer to me nothing more. 

I got same note with 1.25" mounted SII AD filter.


 

#5 buckeyestargazer

buckeyestargazer

    Vendor - Buckeyestargazer.net

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 5,256
  • Joined: 12 Jan 2008
  • Loc: IN, USA

Posted 08 December 2019 - 04:44 PM

I'm pretty demanding of all my equipment and this would give me pause.  If the coating doesn't go all the way to the edge or there is a chip that isn't covered up, that can cause strange reflections and aberrations.  I wouldn't be happy if I had that in my filters and I've experienced that before.  


Edited by buckeyestargazer, 09 December 2019 - 08:50 AM.

 

#6 John Miele

John Miele

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,075
  • Joined: 29 May 2005
  • Loc: North Alabama

Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:17 PM

I'm happier each day that I ordered my LRGB Chromas! Now if they would just get here...grin.gif


 

#7 MapleEve

MapleEve

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 162
  • Joined: 04 Nov 2019
  • Loc: Hangzhou

Posted 08 December 2019 - 09:08 PM

I'm happier each day that I ordered my LRGB Chromas! Now if they would just get here...grin.gif


But AD-E series is more accurate in LRGB…… and my 3rd mono set is AD-E
 

#8 gunny01

gunny01

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,219
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2014

Posted 09 December 2019 - 08:22 AM

I'm happier each day that I ordered my LRGB Chromas! Now if they would just get here...grin.gif

  WOW!  What a joke the ad's have become over the years.  Now the customer is supposed to accept filters that have chips in them and I don't care if it is only 1mm.  They should be pristine.  This is like buying a new car with a dent in it. 

 

  As pointed out, if I'm looking to buy a second hand set of ad's and see that the filters have chips, I'm going to say no or ask for a lower price.  I'd ship them back immediately unless you like paying a premium price, dealing with poor quality, and getting screwed all at the same time. 

 

  Since two of you are now reporting this, along with that note, it makes you wonder if there is a production problem or bad lot of glass that was used.  Ridiculous to pay that kind of money and a company to expect you to accept less than perfection.  Great philosophy at farpoint: pay more, get less.  They should run that ad line in S+T.

 

  The fact that they have printed up an insert to add to the shipment, indicates that they may have a whole lot of these chipped filters that they are willing to ship out to customers.  And what's the deal with the "pinhole" sentence? 

 

  Last I heard was that Don was still in a consulting role for farpoint, so the sigh for "Poor Don" just doesn't resonate for me. I would be curious to know where the filters are now being made as farpoint's website says that they are made in the USA, but is the glass?  Don't know. but I'm just glad I got mine long before the acquistion by farpoint.

 

  Just another example of why I dumped ad and went with Chroma.  If Chroma did this to me, I'd send them back in a heart beat.   

But AD-E series is more accurate in LRGB…… and my 3rd mono set is AD-E

 Accurate based on what? 


Edited by gunny01, 10 December 2019 - 08:17 AM.

 

#9 andysea

andysea

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,028
  • Joined: 03 Sep 2010
  • Loc: Seattle, WA

Posted 09 December 2019 - 11:55 AM

That is unfortunate. If I received a brand new filter with a chip I would return it. However I wonder if the reseller would take it back or issue a partial refund?
How do you demonstrate that the chip was there before you opened the package?
 

#10 FiremanDan

FiremanDan

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,859
  • Joined: 11 Apr 2014
  • Loc: Virginia

Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:18 PM

Thanks for sharing this. It is important to be informed when making decisions on what equipment to purchase, especially at premium prices.

I am for obvious reasons, not surprised.


 

#11 bmhjr

bmhjr

    Apollo

  • ****-
  • Posts: 1,374
  • Joined: 02 Oct 2015
  • Loc: Colorado

Posted 09 December 2019 - 12:34 PM

Thanks for sharing this. It is important to be informed when making decisions on what equipment to purchase, especially at premium prices.

I am for obvious reasons, not surprised.

Yes, I am sorry to say I followed your story a while back. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences good and bad.  If I ever get the crazy urge to go mono and buy filters I will be better informed.


 

#12 NuclearRoy

NuclearRoy

    Mariner 2

  • *****
  • Posts: 278
  • Joined: 11 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Pittsburgh, PA

Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:14 PM

:(

Just bought a used set. No chips

I agree, for their prices, I wouldn't accept any chips in new filters.

That initial flaw could propagate across the filter.

Even my original ZWO's had no chips.

 

Farpoint has a 'Closeout / Scratch & Dent' section. That's where they belong.

 

They're just handing the Top of the Line crown to Chroma.

 

Feel bad for Don...


 

#13 Moreflying

Moreflying

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 249
  • Joined: 12 Jul 2016
  • Loc: So. Cal

Posted 09 December 2019 - 02:39 PM

Thanks for sharing. That's it for me. I'm in the final stages of putting a new setup together. I'm taking my $2,000 + dollars for filters elsewhere. 


 

#14 Cary

Cary

    Vendor (Optic Wave Labs)

  • ***--
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 982
  • Joined: 07 Jul 2004
  • Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA

Posted 10 December 2019 - 03:01 PM

I'll chime in on this thread since I am the owner of Astrodon filters and coordinate all of the production myself.

 

First, let me say that its impossible to make a perfect anything. Rather than avoid quantifying imperfections and letting it slide to the customer I chose to be more transparent with the customer by identifying what are considered more than acceptable imperfections, at least by industry and scientific standards.

 

Next, I'll give you an overview of how Astrodon filters are made and why they may have edge chips and why this is O.K.

 

The filters are coated on to master sheets of glass substrate ranging in size from 8 to 14 inches diameter. The coatings are deposited in chambers that hold 9 master sheets at a time and each side of the filter deposition process takes between 10 and 18 hours.

 

Once the sheets are made that are QC'd by a custom vision system / spectraphotometer.  The inspection system maps the entire master sheet in 1 sq mm increments, inspecting for inclusions, pinholes and transmission.  A computer model of the sheet uniformity is built and the inclusions and pinholes that are out of specification are physically marked on the sheet with a high power laser.

 

Once the sheet is mapped for uniformity and critical imperfections, software calculates how to map the desired filter sizes on the the sheet, taking uniformity and imperfections into account.

 

Next, the master sheet is attached to a sacrificial sheet of glass with hot wax (they call it blocking wax in the industry).  After the wax sets the composite sandwich is placed in a CNC milling machine that uses diamond core drills to core our the desired filters. Square filters are cut out on a CNC diamond dicing saw. This is where small chipping can occur.

 

After coring, the composite sandwich is heated and the filters are released from the blocking.  The filters are then cleaned through a 14 step ultrasonic cleaning bath.

 

Finally the filters are inspected and packaged.

 

It is worth noting that more than 60% of the coated sheet is discarded in the process.  

It is also worth noting that our process actively selects for the optical performance of each filter at the expense of what we consider minor cosmetic defects and a much lower filter yield.


 

#15 Cary

Cary

    Vendor (Optic Wave Labs)

  • ***--
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 982
  • Joined: 07 Jul 2004
  • Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA

Posted 10 December 2019 - 03:22 PM

Moving on to why the 1mm edge chip specification acceptable.

 

Capture.PNG

 

Above you will find a sectional drawing of a 50mm astrodon filter installed into an SBIG fitler wheel.  #1 is the wheel, #2 is the filter.  The aperture of the filter wheel extends into the edge of the filter by 1.5mm.  This covers any edge chip of 1mm or less.

 

This is similar for other sizes of filter and manufacturers of filter wheels.

 

Any of our mounted filters cover any edge chips.

 

 

 


 

#16 Cary

Cary

    Vendor (Optic Wave Labs)

  • ***--
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 982
  • Joined: 07 Jul 2004
  • Loc: Rancho Cordova, CA

Posted 10 December 2019 - 03:51 PM

My further thoughts on the subject.

 

Some of you are clearly passionate about your products looking pristine while sitting on your desk. I get it, we all like our shiny and pretty things sometimes more than using them for their intended purpose.

 

On the other hand, I am passionate about my products FUNCTIONING at the best possible level even if that means extremely minor cosmetic defects.

 

I will be so bold to state that the scientific community agrees with me.  This is why JPL, KECK, Caltech, European Space Agency, BlackGem project, Texas A&M, Las Cumbres Observatory (and more than I can recollect in this writing) have purchased filters from us.

 

Finally, I think it is poor form form the likes of gunny and firmandan to constantly bash our brand even though one claims to not even own our product and the other is a previously happy (or so he claimed) customer.  Then there is the OP.  Claims to be happy with the product but apparently did not like my honesty about our specifications.


 

#17 Dan Crowson

Dan Crowson

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 2,618
  • Joined: 08 Oct 2010
  • Loc: Dardenne Prairie, MO

Posted 10 December 2019 - 07:45 PM

Time to call it a day on this thread.


 


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics