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DOCTER NOBILEM 8x56 Porro Binoculars

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#1 j.gardavsky

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 05:20 AM

Hello all,

 

on a side line of another topic, we have had a discussion about these binoculars, and about their use for the hobby astronomy.

Now, I took a pic

 

Docter Nobilem 8x56B Porro.jpg

 

The technical specifications, and a short review is here

https://www.allbinos..._8x56_B_GA.html

 

It is actually the very high transmission in the spectral range of 450nm up to 550nm of the dark adapted vision, and the very high contrast performance, which makes these binoculars an interesting choice for the visual astronomy at the low magnifications.

 

Best,

JG


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#2 Mark9473

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 07:03 AM

JG, do you have experience with predecessor models such as those that can be bought used from Optikservice Schilling?


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#3 j.gardavsky

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 10:49 AM

JG, do you have experience with predecessor models such as those that can be bought used from Optikservice Schilling?

Admitted, de facto I have no experience with the predecessor binos.

 

On the markets in Germany, it looks like the last versions of the Docter Porros are missing.

Contrary to it, I can see at the moment 3 offers for the Zeiss West 15x60 T*, which used to cost a fortune even if 2nd hand.

 

The situation on the 2nd hand market has been changing during the past 3 years, both with the premium binoculars, and with the premium dual purpose eyepieces (microscopes, telescopes), and even with the premium spotting eyepieces.

 

Best,

JG



#4 C.Hay

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 12:46 PM

Dear Jiri,

 

I find your perspective on the transmission characteristics of these binoculars hugely interesting, as I, like you, am an avid observer of galactic nebulae. Such information is exceedingly rare. Scarcely any binocular reviews address the observation of emission nebulae in any systematic fashion.

 

That your comments are backed up by vast observing experience make them all the more valuable. In that vein, perhaps you would like to share some of your remarkable observations with this instrument?

 

Best regards, Christopher

 

PS: You mention changes on the 2nd hand market. Which changes do you mean? Docter disappearing?


Edited by C.Hay, 12 December 2019 - 12:47 PM.

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#5 plyscope

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 03:41 PM

There is some information on predecessor models on Holger Merlitz's website.

 

http://www.holgermer.../zeiss8x50.html

 

http://www.holgermer...ets/docter.html


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#6 j.gardavsky

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 03:50 PM

Dear Jiri,

 

I find your perspective on the transmission characteristics of these binoculars hugely interesting, as I, like you, am an avid observer of galactic nebulae. Such information is exceedingly rare. Scarcely any binocular reviews address the observation of emission nebulae in any systematic fashion.

 

That your comments are backed up by vast observing experience make them all the more valuable. In that vein, perhaps you would like to share some of your remarkable observations with this instrument?

 

Best regards, Christopher

 

PS: You mention changes on the 2nd hand market. Which changes do you mean? Docter disappearing?

Hello Christopher,

 

during the last years, my observing sessions have concentrated on the galactic nebulae through the 15x85 binoculars, and through the 6" F/5 refractor. The smaller binoculars are just my companions, also to check the quality of skies, but I run an observing session with the 10.5x70 or smaller, a few times a year.

 

That said, my last obseving session has concentrated on southern Perseus and northern Auriga with the 6" F/5,

https://theskysearch...6&t=5237#p44181

beyond the NGC/IC catalogs, and including also the "elusive" very large planetary nebula Sh2-216, I took because it is in the Sharpless catalogue.

 

It may happen after the winter season, that I will return to the galaxies. It is sometimes incredible what can be seen with the small aperture optics.

 

Regarding the 2nd hand markets in Germany, my impression is that the Docter Porro binoculars have been deployed recently by people looking for top performance on budget, even if the Docter optics are missing the hard antiscretch coatings, antifog, rain protection, G-shock resistance, etc.

But they give you 30 years warranty, so Docter must have been dead sure about the manufacturing quality.

 

Clear skies,

JG



#7 aneeg

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 04:02 PM

I have a Nobilem 8X56 with individual focusing, the 8X56 BGA/IF. This was one of the last one produced by CZJ before the factory was handed over to Docter Optik. 
 

 

Arne


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#8 Charlie_van

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 08:53 PM

I also had a Nobilem 7x50 with central focusing. The light transmission is not as good as modern binocular, but the focus is smooth and right peak focusing. The Nobilem is very sharp and give me the best star point view.


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#9 j.gardavsky

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 06:15 AM

DOCTER NOBILEM 7x50B Porro Binoculars

 

I also had a Nobilem 7x50 with central focusing. The light transmission is not as good as modern binocular, but the focus is smooth and right peak focusing. The Nobilem is very sharp and give me the best star point view.

I agree,

the DOCTER NOBILEM 7x50B binoculars are not the best choice for the general astronomy, besides hunting the dark nebulae, where they bring eventually more contrast.

 

I found these at Schilling's in Berlin Charlottenburg, tested them on the street views in Kantstrasse against the Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision, and as I already have these Swarovs, my decission to at these 7x50 to my arsenal has been very fast.

 

These Nobilems dim the blue/violet and enhance the long wavelengths towards the visible near infrared. Hence, they are perfectly suited for watching the water sports where the blue/violet light is blinding, and dimming the skylight they offer in the long ranging an unexpected high contrast with vivid colors.

The color contrast also enhances the 3D visual perception over the medium distances, like when I watching the birds in flight.


DOCTER NOBILEM 7x50B.jpg

 

So, it has been a failure of marketing to post the unique performance proposition on these binoculars.

 

Thank you for reading and looking,

JG


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#10 Bratman2

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 09:50 PM

Interesting information! I also have the Docter 8x56 in a non armored version. They are very good in my book! The 7x50 IF I guess would be specialized for marine/water use. Were they called the Navidoc? It had never crossed my mind that they had specialized the coatings. When I first read the post on them I started to comment and glad I read to the bottom. I also have the 7x50 but not the IF model and they are close to the 8x56 I own but you can tell a difference visually. I have bought, owned quite a few CZJ and Docter binoculars. Read and studied up on them, I thought I had anyways, and never heard of an 8x56 IF version. That is very interesting!!! Pictures?


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#11 plyscope

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 03:07 AM

I hope it is ok for me to attach a brochure for Nobilem from approximately 10 years ago.

 

Attached File  Nobilem_LR.pdf   355.56KB   43 downloads


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#12 Pinac

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 05:02 AM

Thank you for this, plyscope.

Pinac


Edited by Pinac, 14 December 2019 - 05:56 AM.

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#13 j.gardavsky

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 08:56 AM

Thank you Andy for the brochure, saved.

 

JG


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#14 Bratman2

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 10:22 AM

I find it sad that in the whole world the demand for high end porro binoculars is so low as to lead to their demise. I have the Classics and Nobilem series in my collection. Missing the 8x50 which was my first, it was a CZJ. Wish many times I had never sold it. Did Docter ever make any 8x50 Nobilem? Just curious. I attached picture of my small collection. One is a CZJ, the 12x50 Dodecarem. Did Docter ever make any of them? The 7x50 Classic I purchased new in England maybe a dozen years ago. The 10x50 Nobilem rubber armored was also purchased new maybe 3-4 years ago. Rest where purchased all used. I guess you could say I really like them a lot, lol!

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#15 j.gardavsky

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 11:17 AM

Hello Bratman,

 

that's a very nice collection of the binoculars!

During the last months, I have reduced my binoculars arsenal, and now I am about to part with my last CZJ binos, the 10x50 W Jenoptems, even if they are really wide field.

 

Due to the missing marketing by Docter, their classical Porros have been hardly known.

 

Otherwise, the Bernhard Docter company, coming originally from Wetzlar before they have moved to Jena Eisfeld, is well known due to their proprietary technologies, and designing and manufacturing optics for the industrial applications.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Docter_Optics

It looks like the Porro prisms binoculars manufacturing has ended in 2018, the time I have purchased the 8x56 and 15x60 from the environments of the company location in Jena.

 

And now, Docter belongs to Noblex, where from I have purchased their ex-demo Docter ultrawide eyepiece.

 

Looking at Docter positioning its future business activities,

https://www.docterop...om/en/Home.html

this might be also the end to the Docter eyepiece, the Aspectem binoculars, ...

 

Best,

JG



#16 ThomasM

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 12:10 PM

 

 

I agree,

the DOCTER NOBILEM 7x50B binoculars are not the best choice for the general astronomy, besides hunting the dark nebulae, where they bring eventually more contrast.

 

I found these at Schilling's in Berlin Charlottenburg, tested them on the street views in Kantstrasse against the Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision, and as I already have these Swarovs, my decission to at these 7x50 to my arsenal has been very fast.

 

Thanks a lot, Interesting what you can learn from a forum based in the US, Schillings in Berlin Charlottenburg is in 5 minutes walking distance from where I live for more than 15 year., but  I never recongized that the sell a lot of interesting binoculards.

 

Thomas
 


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#17 j.gardavsky

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 01:23 PM

Hello Thomas,

 

Foto Schilling can be hardly overseen, ha, ha,

https://www.google.c...QoiowE3oECA0QBg

 

Best,

JG



#18 ThomasM

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:34 PM

Hello Thomas,

 

Foto Schilling can be hardly overseen, ha, ha,

https://www.google.c...QoiowE3oECA0QBg

 

Best,

JG

Hi Jiri,

 

you will not believe, but it can be overlooked. It is an interesting shop, I just went there, looked into the display window. They have lots of interesting binouclars from big ones for astro use but also unusal  like the Leica Ampivid 6x24 with mirror prism.

 

best regards

 

Thomas
 


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#19 j.gardavsky

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:44 PM

Gruss Thomas,

 

next year in June, when we are in the Scharmützel Lake area, I will drive to visit Mr.Schilling's shop, and maybe we will meet there,

 

Jiri


Edited by j.gardavsky, 14 December 2019 - 02:44 PM.


#20 ThomasM

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:56 PM

Gruss Thomas,

 

next year in June, when we are in the Scharmützel Lake area, I will drive to visit Mr.Schilling's shop, and maybe we will meet there,

 

Jiri

Good idea Jiri,

 

please let me know when you are there.

 

best regards

 

Thomas
 



#21 j.gardavsky

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 03:14 PM

Hello Thomas,

 

as I am sometimes forgetting, send a PM as a reminder, let's say in May.

 

Best,

Jiri



#22 dufay

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 04:44 PM

I find it sad that in the whole world the demand for high end porro binoculars is so low as to lead to their demise. I have the Classics and Nobilem series in my collection. Missing the 8x50 which was my first, it was a CZJ. Wish many times I had never sold it. Did Docter ever make any 8x50 Nobilem? Just curious. I attached picture of my small collection. One is a CZJ, the 12x50 Dodecarem. Did Docter ever make any of them? The 7x50 Classic I purchased new in England maybe a dozen years ago. The 10x50 Nobilem rubber armored was also purchased new maybe 3-4 years ago. Rest where purchased all used. I guess you could say I really like them a lot, lol!

 

Yes, the Docter Nobilem can be found in both the 8x50 and the 12x50 format.
https://www.allbinos...ifications.html
https://www.allbinos...ifications.html

 

 

To the OP: Unfortunately, I have no experience with the Nobilem 8x56, but my current favorite astronomy binoculars are one of its roof successors, the Docter 8x56 ED/OH with Abbe/Koenig prisms. To my eyes they give a wonderfully bright, colorful and almost tridimensional rendering of the night sky.


Edited by dufay, 14 December 2019 - 04:45 PM.

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#23 Bratman2

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 08:38 PM

I don't need to find them, or I would probably buy them too! The 8x50 and 12x50 I have only seen for sale used as a CZJ. Thanks for the information. I am sure you like the 8x56 ED/OH, I missed a very good price on one a year or two ago. I did get the 8x58 model though I think the ED/OH is a step above it. I still prefer the 8x56 Nobilem to the 8x58. The Nobilem just feels right in the hands, little bit better edge correction to my eyes. I do think the 8x58 is every bit as bright. 



#24 John F

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 08:48 PM

Back in the 1990's (1992 -1999) I used to own pairs of the Carl Zeiss Jena 8x50, 12x50 & 15x60 Nobilems.  Those three pairs of binocular worked pretty well for me during that decade. 

 

Around 1993 -1994 I tried a pair of the 8x56 Nobilems.  My first (and only) night out using them I was disappointed.  Compared to my 8x50s they yielded a 7.00mm exit pupil (versus 6.25 for the 8x50s).  And their 56mm of aperture enabled them to collect 25% more light than my pair of 8x50s did.  However, when I tried them out side by side at a dark sky observing site I much preferred than 8x50s to the 8x56s.  Why? Well they were a little smaller in size than the 8x56s and they were significantly lighter in weight so I was able to comfortably hand hold them for longer periods of time.  But what I preferred most with the 8x50s versus the 8x56s was that the 8x50s provided a darker sky background than 8x56s did and thus provided better contrast so the next day I decided to send the 8x56s back to the vendor.

 

But aside from that personal experience the problem I see with 8x56 binoculars is that they yield very large and bright 7.00mm exit pupils (which hunters like for use during the morning and evening twilight hours).  Those large exit pupils in turn mean that (if you're using them for star gazing) that the night sky background will be fairly bright and that may not be too bad if you're able to use them at a very dark sky site.  But if not then I personally don't like the types of views that a binocular which yields a 7:00mm exit pupil provide.  Also, if you're not young enough that your eyes are still able to fully benefit from observing with instruments which provide 7.00mm size exit pupils then some of the aperture of the instrument that you'll be observing with will be wasted.  For those reasons and the fact that I'm almost 72 years old I only use binoculars (or telescope eyepieces) which yield exit pupils of 5.00mm or smaller in size.

 

I have no doubt that the latest version of the Doctor 8x56 binocular is a very fine instrument but for observers who are over 50 years of age or who have do most of their observing under light polluted sky conditions I don't think a 8x56 binocular (or a 7x50, 9x63, 10x70, 11x80 or a 14x100) are the best ones to use no matter how fine of an instrument (e.g., the Nikon 7x50 Prostars) they are.

 

John Finnan

 

 

 


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#25 dries1

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 09:19 PM

The Zeiss Jena 8X50 Octarem was a nice glass in the day, for low light, and a nice glass for the night sky. At the time a lower cost alternative than the Nobilem Spezial 8X50 which was made in lower numbers, one is still in the family but not with me. 

 

Andy W.

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