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Agena Starguider Dual ED and TV 3-6 zoom in F/9 refractor - will I see a difference?

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#1 Blueox4

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:00 PM

my 3 refractors are F/8, F/9 and F/9.2. I just picked up a couple of the Agena Starguider Dual ED eyepieces in 5mm, 8mm and 12mm. I bought them primarily to use with my vixen FL-70S they just got here the other day and I have not had a chance to use them yet. Based on others who have posted about these eyepieces I expect them to be very good in my slower refractors. The price is very nice too. I totally understand the need for extremely high quality and high priced eyepieces in faster refractors if you want the best views in them. But with slower refractors that are easier on eyepieces I wonder if one will see much difference between say a Televue 3-6mm Nagler Zoom or Delite and the aforementioned Agena Starguider Dual ED eyepieces? The refractors I have are quality and I want the best views at the eyepiece but I’m just not sure if I’ll see that difference in these slower refractors? Reason I ask is I’m looking hard at a TV Zoom while the sale is on but I want it to be worth it at the eyepiece. Advice?



#2 sg6

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:47 PM

The zoom only really relates to the 5mm and would I expect be better.

Delites against other then the 5 again better.

The 8mm and 12mm Starguiders are my main use ones.

 

Starguiders are good for the cost, but I have been in the situation of swapping Delos for Starguiders in a scope as a quick and dirty test. The TV's are BETTER.

 

Spent 15 to 20 minutes swapping between my Starguiders and a set of Delos. Believe me no contest. And it was a fairly long focal length scope - 16" Dal Kirkham. Wish I could recall the target, suspect M57.

 

Don't go expecting to pay $60 for a Delite (or Delos) match.

Will say a lot of astronomers talk themselves into getting something for nothing, or almost nothing.

Does the saying "If it sounds too good to be true it usually is." in much use in the US ?



#3 GOLGO13

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Posted 14 December 2019 - 02:55 PM

Really depends. The 3-6 zoom is nice, but it's also limited in some ways. It's got pretty short eye relief. And it's only 50 degree field of view...so that part of it would be worse.

 

I think it really depends on what your are looking at as to if the starguiders will be better or worse. I did some lunar and planetary comparisons between the 25mm paradigm and the 24mm televue Pan. I actually preferred the paradigm for that purpose. Both were fine of course. I also compared the 9mm nagler to the 8mm starguider and I felt the starguider held it's own for planet/moon.

 

However, could be a different story for DSOs.

 

Kind of a different animal of course. It's a 3-4-5-6 eyepiece. In the Paradigms starguiders you'd have to get the 5 and the 3.2 and barlow the 8 and 12.

 

Personally, I think the starguiders are just fine for most situations.



#4 YAOG

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:36 PM

my 3 refractors are F/8, F/9 and F/9.2. I just picked up a couple of the Agena Starguider Dual ED eyepieces in 5mm, 8mm and 12mm. I bought them primarily to use with my vixen FL-70S they just got here the other day and I have not had a chance to use them yet. Based on others who have posted about these eyepieces I expect them to be very good in my slower refractors. The price is very nice too. I totally understand the need for extremely high quality and high priced eyepieces in faster refractors if you want the best views in them. But with slower refractors that are easier on eyepieces I wonder if one will see much difference between say a Televue 3-6mm Nagler Zoom or Delite and the aforementioned Agena Starguider Dual ED eyepieces? The refractors I have are quality and I want the best views at the eyepiece but I’m just not sure if I’ll see that difference in these slower refractors? Reason I ask is I’m looking hard at a TV Zoom while the sale is on but I want it to be worth it at the eyepiece. Advice?

If you want top quality views at the eyepiece of your top quality telescopes only use top quality eyepieces and top quality diagonals.  In your slower scopes start with a Baader BBHS prism and buy that TeleVue Nagler zoom. 

 

The TeleVue 3-6mm Nagler zoom has typically excellent TeleVue coatings and the flexibility of a zoom are very hard to beat with any collection of 3, 4, 5 & 6mm eyepieces with 50 degree AFOV for the same or even double the money. 

 

Well you asked for it, help the economy now!



#5 YAOG

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 12:39 PM

Really depends. The 3-6 zoom is nice, <<SNIPPED>>

 

Personally, I think the starguiders are just fine for most situations.

That's nice but the OP is not looking for "just fine" he is looking for "the best views" from his quality scopes.



#6 GOLGO13

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 04:19 PM

That's nice but the OP is not looking for "just fine" he is looking for "the best views" from his quality scopes.


Then a Zao or Supermonocentric is in order. I don't have the 3 to 6 zoom anymore, but not sure there would be a giant difference. Starguiders a little wider, better eye relief.

My point is don't count out the starguider just because it's lower cost.
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#7 BillP

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 05:11 PM

At the slower focal ratios you mention, the off-axis will not be any better in the Zoom.  In the zoom the ER will be tighter, and the AFOV smaller, and ergonomics not as nice overall with no adjustable eye guard.  So most plusses will go to the Starguiders.

 

Now the Starguiders are of course not premium eyepieces.  But where you will see that most will be that they will show a little more scatter, not enough to matter at all IMO, and not as bright of a view as the zoom.  I posit that the better apparent throughput of the zoom probably has to do with the tuned coatings all TV products use.  But visually, then only place this is really noticeable in a side-by-side compare only will be that nebula and galaxies will present slightly brighter and with slightly more extent to them. 


Edited by BillP, 15 December 2019 - 08:41 PM.

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#8 SeattleScott

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Posted 15 December 2019 - 11:05 PM

My experience.

I started with a 5mm TMB planetary as my high power eyepiece in my 100ED. It was good, but it was just a little lacking, so I eventually upgraded to a 5lvw. This made a slight but noticeable improvement. Years later I compared a Tak 5LE and my buddies and I felt it was about 10% shaper than the LVW.

I’m not talking edge correction. I’m talking center of field contrast.

Scott

#9 Tank

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Posted 19 December 2019 - 12:03 PM

All depends on expectation

a better EP will always show better but the questions is how much better and is it worth it

that to me would be on a each individual basis




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