Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Do you have a maximum pay-price for different apertures & optics?

  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#26 BillP

BillP

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,463
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Spotsylvania, VA

Posted 10 January 2020 - 02:03 PM

Whether new or pre-loved, do you have a spending limit for a given aperture and optical arrangement?

Interesting question.  Am sure will be different for everyone given each of our personal likes/dislikes.  For me, spending more that $1500 for any OTA is a major decision and have only done that twice in my observing life.  As a general rule I will commit more funds towards any refractive OTA than any Catadioptric OTA, and will commit more funds towards any Catadioptric OTA than I would towards any Newtonian.


  • doctordub, stevew, Bomber Bob and 1 other like this

#27 junomike

junomike

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 19,799
  • Joined: 07 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Ontario

Posted 10 January 2020 - 06:29 PM

I am about to purchase an AP 92mm Stowaway so the $3590 price tag is the most money spent on a scope.  But most of the funds are coming from savings bonds my late mother left me and she said to treat yourself someday, which I am.  Otherwise if a scope is over $1500 I usually sell some gear to pay for most of it.  
 

Bill

Lotta coin Bill, but you "deserve to splurge" so enjoy it and If it's not what you want/expect then recouping your investment shouldn't be too hard.


  • stevew, lynnelkriver and Bill Barlow like this

#28 John Huntley

John Huntley

    Mercury-Atlas

  • ***--
  • Posts: 2,722
  • Joined: 16 Jul 2006
  • Loc: SW England

Posted 10 January 2020 - 06:31 PM

The most I have spent on scopes was on my Tak FC-100DL and TMB/LZOS 130 F/9.2 triplet. The Tak was new and the TMB/LZOS bought used and both cost about the same bought within a couple of months of each other in early Summer 2016.


Edited by John Huntley, 10 January 2020 - 06:31 PM.

  • 25585 likes this

#29 Steve Allison

Steve Allison

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2016
  • Loc: Olympia, Wash. 98502

Posted 10 January 2020 - 07:15 PM

Not really mentioned so far is resale value.

 

If I buy a pristine, used  Takahashi, I am pretty much guaranteed to get all my money back if/when ever I sell. Even a new Takahashi will retain a large percentage of its value. It is the same for certain other highly regarded brands and some classic instruments as well.

 

So in many cases, you are not spending the money so much as borrowing from yourself. This always factors in to my own buying decisions.

 

Steve


  • doctordub and 25585 like this

#30 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 87,235
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 10 January 2020 - 10:36 PM

That's what Escalades are for. Use your Lambo for date nites and carving canyon roads.

 

Actually, that's what motor homes are for, driving the back roads with your honey.  Pack up your scopes, head out to your favorite dark site and spend a week or two observing in comfort.

 

I have negative interest in either a Lambo or Escalade but I could see a new motor home.. 

 

Jon


  • stevew, RAKing, 25585 and 1 other like this

#31 Steve Allison

Steve Allison

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2016
  • Loc: Olympia, Wash. 98502

Posted 11 January 2020 - 12:11 AM

I'd take the Lambo and buy a tent...



#32 HydrogenAlpha

HydrogenAlpha

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 509
  • Joined: 02 Oct 2014
  • Loc: Singapore

Posted 11 January 2020 - 02:25 AM

No hard and fast rule to it, as it would seem rather arbitrary. 

 

I probably wouldn't spend over $1,000 on a (bare bones) 60mm or $8000 on a 5" apo. But for the vast majority of telescopes (including premium brands), they fall within this price range. I guess the only thing this keeps out is Zeiss or the like. Even at this limit, the only reason I'd spend in the upper end of the range is if the optics are close to perfect. 

 

Other factors (aside from reputed quality, aperture, and optical design) include resale value, f-ratio (as I am an imager) and image circle. 


  • 25585 likes this

#33 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 87,235
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 11 January 2020 - 10:53 AM

I'd take the Lambo and buy a tent...

 

And no telescope. or only a small telescope, and no off road. I'd say that would get old after a week or two. Stay up all night, in a tent with wind, heat and/cold. If it decides to rain or snow.. 

 

 5546643-Navajo National Momument Winter.jpg

Joshua Tree March 2017 1.jpg
 
We're amateur astronomers.. Lamborweenies are dogs anyway, compared to this:
 
 
lol.gif
 
That takes some juevos..
 
Jon

  • Paul Hyndman, eros312, Bomber Bob and 3 others like this

#34 CHASLX200

CHASLX200

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,520
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Tampa area Florida

Posted 11 January 2020 - 11:38 AM

I would never pay over 6k for any 6" or smaller APO. More like 3k is my cut off. Guess if i found a nice 7" AP for under $8k i would jump and flip it. Just no way i could keep it as for 10 times less money a used 8" slow Newt is a much better deal and had just as good a image. Most i ever spent on a scope was around 8k for a new Starmaster GO-TO Dob around 2003.


  • 25585 likes this

#35 aa6ww

aa6ww

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,634
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2011
  • Loc: Sacramento, Calif.

Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:00 PM

Mostly I've bought excellent condition used gear, saving 25% or more off the new price. Doing this, I basically rent my equipment till i sell it. Most items I sell for what I paid for them.

I did buy my APM-152ED new, but I sold my C14 and 4" F/15 to get it, so in that situation, it was swapping two scopes for one.

 

I sold 14 refratcors, 2 SCT's, 100mm ED bino's and my 90mm H/A Filter last year. I bought 3 refractors, 1 SCT, a TV binoviewer, a new mount and 3 new eyepieces.

 

Im still way in the black regarding my astro budget so I may buy one more refractor and sell 2.

 

Then i should be good. So my limit is $ 0.00 out of pocket expenses. 

 

...Ralph


  • doctordub, stevew and RAKing like this

#36 Wildetelescope

Wildetelescope

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,095
  • Joined: 12 Feb 2015
  • Loc: Maryland

Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:21 PM

 

And no telescope. or only a small telescope, and no off road. I'd say that would get old after a week or two. Stay up all night, in a tent with wind, heat and/cold. If it decides to rain or snow.. 

 

 

 
 
We're amateur astronomers.. Lambos are dogs anyway, compared to this:
 
 
lol.gif
 
That takes some juevos..
 
Jon

 

One of my observing buddies has a class A that he and his wife have been tooling around in for the past year.   We are just trying to get some time off work to get to a dark site.   The ladies are very encouraging.  I think they are looking for the opportunity to get us out of their hair for a few nights:-) 

 

Cheers!

 

JMD


  • Jon Isaacs likes this

#37 25585

25585

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10,251
  • Joined: 29 Aug 2017
  • Loc: In a valley, in the UK.

Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:37 PM

Myself, the limit I set was £3500, so more in US $.

 

Under that amount the most expensive are my Tak TSA120 & FC100DL. Then TV 85 & Genesis. The Sky-Watchers are best value though. 

 

Those 4 Ts above are real quality, each was in my blood, especially the DL. I would like a NP101 but its too over the limit. I would need to sell the DL & TV 85.

 

Down to my Land Rover for wheels now, good for dark sites down dirt tracks. I'd like a Merc G-wagen... 


  • Jon Isaacs likes this

#38 Tyson M

Tyson M

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,884
  • Joined: 22 Jan 2015
  • Loc: Canada

Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:40 PM

No set budget per se but budget is primarily based on what I can afford at the time.  

 

I found myself enjoying the night sky with budget optics, and I found myself enjoying the night sky with fine optics a bit more.

 

Either way I can happily get by with one or the other as I am still enjoying the night sky. 


Edited by Tyson M, 11 January 2020 - 01:42 PM.

  • Jon Isaacs, Paul Hyndman, RAKing and 1 other like this

#39 Uranotopia

Uranotopia

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 222
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2018
  • Loc: Southwestern Germany and northwestern Kasakhstan (when on holidays)

Posted 11 January 2020 - 01:53 PM

For some offers there is lower price limit, I am not able to resist and I will buy the scope.

For instance, I bought a used blue label Skywatcher 70/500 with EQ 1 mount for 60 Euros (67 USD). When the scope was deluvered by postal service, I was quite astonished - it was quite good.

Later I bought a Celestron Astromaster 90 EQ for only 80 Euros (89 USD) - but this scope had optical failure (off axis coma). I had to repair and optimize it, what took abot six hours.

But then I had a refractor really worth a better price!


Edited by Uranotopia, 11 January 2020 - 01:54 PM.

  • Jon Isaacs and 25585 like this

#40 Jon Isaacs

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 87,235
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 11 January 2020 - 03:40 PM

For some offers there is lower price limit, I am not able to resist and I will buy the scope.

For instance, I bought a used blue label Skywatcher 70/500 with EQ 1 mount for 60 Euros (67 USD). When the scope was deluvered by postal service, I was quite astonished - it was quite good.

Later I bought a Celestron Astromaster 90 EQ for only 80 Euros (89 USD) - but this scope had optical failure (off axis coma). I had to repair and optimize it, what took abot six hours.

But then I had a refractor really worth a better price!

:waytogo:

 

I am a sucker for a bargain.  I pretty much only buy locally, mostly Craigslist. Over the years, I have purchased more that I can possibly remember.  A few I have kept, most I have passed on to someone who will use the scope.  It's fun and informative trying them out,... 

 

These days I have reformed my bad habits to some real extent.  The only reason is that I really dislike packing and shipping scopes.

 

Jon


  • RAKing, 25585 and Uranotopia like this

#41 Wildetelescope

Wildetelescope

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,095
  • Joined: 12 Feb 2015
  • Loc: Maryland

Posted 11 January 2020 - 04:05 PM

This has been an interesting thread.  I have been very fortunate to obtain the scopes in my signature, used, for what I consider good deals. Some scopes came in more or less Pristine condition(the TV102 and the Towa),  Others show the wear of their age, but the views they throw up REALLY please me and in most cases, what I paid was SIGNIFICANTLY less than something new would have cost(even when compared to more economically accessible brand names).    Only the 6 inch AP would I say that I paid a premium used price(significantly more than Eddgie:-).  But I REALLY wanted an example of THAT vintage AP(1989) in a six inch version. After a little tweaking of the alignment of the after market focuser that  came with it, I am deliriously happy with its performance at the ep. The fact that I picked up its 5 inch little brother for about the same price as it went for new in 1989, takes a bit of the sting of the cost of the 6 inch away.  The reality is the cost of all my refractors together does not come close to the cost of one new 150 mm Tak or LZOS APM, or a ED version of a used AP in that range. Some of them are a little dog eared, but they all wow me under the stars.

 

For the most part, the limits of what I will spend are dictated on what resources I can in good conscience devote to my hobby.  I see no problem with the cost of a new AP, TEC or CFF 8 inch refractor if I can afford it.  Those scopes are wonderful and the amount of craftsmanship that goes into them is likely not captured by their price.  The same for any of the premium scope styles.   However, economic reality constrains us all in one form or another. 

 

Cheers!

JMD


  • Jon Isaacs, 25585 and Uranotopia like this

#42 Don Allen

Don Allen

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 977
  • Joined: 07 Jul 2005
  • Loc: Charleston, SC

Posted 11 January 2020 - 06:28 PM

I compare the price per square millimeter of the lens to others in its category (new, used, doublet, triplet) and go from there.

To purchase a new high grade FPL- 53 triplet or fluorite doublet at the 100 mm range I will spend  33-38 cents per square millimeter.  To go multi year used, I can pick up one in the 21-23 cent area. Anything above that range is, exceptions allowed of course, too high for my consideration. 

 

A while back there was a SV 115 TMB/Lzos for 24.5 cents per sq mm in the CN Classifieds.  That was a great price.    


  • 25585 likes this

#43 lynnelkriver

lynnelkriver

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 564
  • Joined: 14 May 2007
  • Loc: Elk River, Mn.

Posted 12 January 2020 - 07:10 PM

This is a great thread!  15 years ago with kids not too far away from starting college my first refractor budget was $2000 (Stellarvue SV90TBV).  At that time I drooled all over the AP, Tak, Tec, Stellarvue, etc. larger 5-6" refractors but just could not justify it.  Fast forward to today and with the kids out of college, all married it was time to buy a TEC140fl!  Scott


  • Paul G, Paul Hyndman, peleuba and 2 others like this

#44 Paul G

Paul G

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,013
  • Joined: 08 May 2003
  • Loc: Freedonia

Posted 12 January 2020 - 07:32 PM

I would never pay over 6k for any 6" or smaller APO. More like 3k is my cut off. Guess if i found a nice 7" AP for under $8k i would jump and flip it. Just no way i could keep it as for 10 times less money a used 8" slow Newt is a much better deal and had just as good a image. Most i ever spent on a scope was around 8k for a new Starmaster GO-TO Dob around 2003.

And the universe is back in balance. :)


  • peleuba, 3 i Guy, eros312 and 1 other like this

#45 bobhen

bobhen

    Aurora

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,525
  • Joined: 25 Jun 2005

Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:24 AM

Do you have a maximum pay-price for different apertures & optics?

 

No.

 

1. I first decide what I want to accomplish
2. Then I decide on the scope (Refractor Reflector Cassegrain)
3. Then I decide if really high quality optics will be beneficial or if what I want to accomplish does not require high quality optics.

 

Example:
I wanted a reasonably portable refractor that I could manage in my older years to use for deep-sky, solar and high power lunar/planetary observing and so needed top-shelf optics. So I purchased a Tak TSA 120. If I could not budget for a refractor to meet my needs, I would not select another less expensive refractor and compromise on optical quality, I would select another design but insist that design have very high quality optics, like a Zambuto reflector.

 

Example:
I wanted a 4” refractor for low power, very wide field, deep sky observing that was also airline portable and rugged and if damaged would not break the bank. So I purchased an inexpensive 102mm F5 achromat. Optical quality was not as important for this type of observing and the scope’s low cost was actually a plus if damaged or lost.

 

Both scopes have served me well for 10 and 15 years respectfully.

 

Of the 4-telescopes I have now (3 refractors and one reflector) 2 are very high quality and 2 are very average quality but they serve different purposes.

 

Bob


Edited by bobhen, 13 January 2020 - 08:25 AM.

  • Scott Beith, RAKing, 25585 and 1 other like this

#46 Astrohobby

Astrohobby

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Düsseldorf (Germany)

Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:54 AM

And the universe is back in balance. smile.gif

Well,

 

I have sold some telescopes over the years to fund new purchases year after year trying out which brands or size I like and which systems for what is best in my area. Certainly not to the degree of CHAS - put his journey is tempting.

I allways bought my equipment with nice discounts or good prices 2nd hand. That enabled me to try them out and then sell again with a minor loss - this seems to be the best tactis and then stay with what you really like.

 

My last dream is a permanent obsy (will be a roll off) - this is a project for 2020 - I`m working on it - being tired of carrying out heavy fracs like the TMB LZOS 6", the 14" Meade or the 8" CFF plus the suitable mount. Setting up was time consuming and a hassle all the time - same for tearing down. This would allow in 1st place to spend more time under the stars - switch on the power roll off the roof and observe. We all know this - beeing too lazy to kick oneself in the butt to set up large optics for 2-3 hours of observing!!

I bow for the ultimative drive of Kent - putting up his TEC 200 every possible night!!

 

To come back to the initial question: I`m ready to pay for a premium thing (For example high end hifi) if I can get my hands on it (at a reasonable discount for me or buy it 2nd hand). If I have to decide to part or need to sell - I`ll get my money almost back if I have the pacience to wait for a person who really want`s it and enjoy the performance it is giving.

 

And there are as well the thoughts, dreams and journey to marry with a piece of art - giving you fun and enjoyment when you use it - not to mention the effect just to look on them even not in use.

 

It was about a 45 years journey, lot of fun - keeping me going - once income grow budget was available.

Certainly to have two boys supported to finish university was the first objective and prime focus - but they have made there way and now it`s funtime!

 

But now I feel it can go different but not any better ;-)! Swaping scopes for example is over now - same is for hifi - believe I reached the treshold.

 

Main thing is what ever you own in terms of equipment - enjoy what you have and discover the magic of the sky - inline with the budget you can and will effort!

 

Just my 2 cent  cheers  Oliver


Edited by Astrohobby, 13 January 2020 - 09:10 AM.

  • 25585 likes this

#47 Cotts

Cotts

    Just Wondering

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 10,541
  • Joined: 10 Oct 2005
  • Loc: Madoc, Ontario

Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:53 AM

Don't buy at all.   

 

Rent!!!

 

Buy a used, good condition, high quality scope for, say, $6000.   Keep it for two or three years then sell it for as close as possible to the used price you paid in the first place.  Hey, it's still a 'used' scope and optics don't wear out from normal use - it's not like putting miles on a car......... (Caveat: you have to be very careful to keep the scope in excellent condition...)  Maybe you'll get $5400 for it...   If you were to keep the scope for 3 years you will have rented the scope for $600 spread over 36 months..

 

$16.67 a month....

 

I've been doing this for years now and have owned, enjoyed and experienced a bewildering variety of top-notch telescopes (and one or two dogs...).   

 

Dave


  • Rick Runcie, doctordub, lynnelkriver and 1 other like this

#48 Steve Allison

Steve Allison

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Joined: 25 Nov 2016
  • Loc: Olympia, Wash. 98502

Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:03 PM

Kinda what I was getting at in my earlier post...



#49 Astrohobby

Astrohobby

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 126
  • Joined: 18 Sep 2014
  • Loc: Düsseldorf (Germany)

Posted 14 January 2020 - 04:07 PM

We are all in the same boat with our judgement!

 

Cheers  Oliver



#50 SonnyE

SonnyE

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,371
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2015
  • Loc: Cali for ni a

Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:44 PM

No. I have a Buy Once, Cry Once policy.

Then I image until the glass melts.

There are those who do careful calculated purchases, and perfect the reason for the acquisition.

And there are those who just collect stuff...




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics