Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Sw evostar 80ED or Sw Esprit 80ED triplet?

astrophotography beginner dslr equipment imaging refractor optics
  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 23 January 2020 - 01:15 AM

I recently applied for a job I am apparently likely to get, meaning I can now increase my budget for my new telescope! I previously set on for the Evostar 80 for 1300nzd and a field flattener for 400nzd or so, but with the job I am considering if it would be worth going up to the esprit which is a triplet, and has a more handlable Focal length for my intended use and is 2600nzd.
The explore scientific one is not available in any local sellers and would be expensive to import
My questions:
would it be worth the doubled price?
Would I need a field flattener for the esprit aswell?

In advance: thanks for all your advice!!

(I already have an HEQ5 pro and a little bit of experience with a 130/650 saxon reflector my friend owns)

#2 tonyt

tonyt

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,059
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Australia

Posted 23 January 2020 - 02:56 AM

In australia the flattener is included with the esprit, so check with your supplier if its included in nz.



#3 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 23 January 2020 - 04:40 AM

In australia the flattener is included with the esprit, so check with your supplier if its included in nz.


Oh yes! It does say a thread on flattener is included

#4 tcchittyjr

tcchittyjr

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 133
  • Joined: 10 Dec 2012
  • Loc: Orlando, FL

Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:43 AM

I have the Esprit 80 and the 120, both great scopes!

 

TomC



#5 SilverLitz

SilverLitz

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 502
  • Joined: 17 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 23 January 2020 - 08:31 AM

If you focus is AP get the Esprit.  Esprits are great value for AP.  If you emphasis is visual, save the the money.

 

I have the Esprit 100 and love it.



#6 OldManSky

OldManSky

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,791
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2019
  • Loc: Valley Center, CA USA

Posted 23 January 2020 - 09:02 AM

Like the others, I'd advise you go for the triplet Esprit.  Yes, it's worth double the cost.

Only thing about the Esprit 80 is the mounting bracket, which is a bolted-on too-short dovetail.  It really should have rings and a proper, longer dovetail.  It's a shame that SW made that choice...



#7 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 23 January 2020 - 04:52 PM

Like the others, I'd advise you go for the triplet Esprit. Yes, it's worth double the cost.
Only thing about the Esprit 80 is the mounting bracket, which is a bolted-on too-short dovetail. It really should have rings and a proper, longer dovetail. It's a shame that SW made that choice...


If I can, How do I work around that? Will to balance as it is with a dslr and maybe a ccd in the future?

#8 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 23 January 2020 - 05:17 PM

I asked the seller and they said the flattener reduces it by 0.83x but is barely noticiable. I feel this is gonna make the scope too zoomed out? Would this be a correct feeling?

#9 Brule

Brule

    Sputnik

  • -----
  • Posts: 45
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2019
  • Loc: Saint Louis, MO

Posted 23 January 2020 - 06:16 PM

If I can, How do I work around that? Will to balance as it is with a dslr and maybe a ccd in the future?

The bottom of the Esprit dovetail has two screw holes so you can mount a longer dovetail bar to it.

 

This worked fine for me, I'm able to mount it with the flattener, an OAG, 8-position filter wheel, and ASI294 / 183 cameras. It comes with the needed screws. In addition, there is a longer 11 inch one that could work, but I have not tried it.

 

Also, as noted above, I had to use an OAG because a guide scope in the finder bracket did not perform well enough, which was expected. So just keep that in mind if you want to do guiding since it doesn't come with rings for securely mounting a guide scope.

 

Of course, if you want to avoid both problems you'll have to move to the Esprit 100 (or look up how to dismantle the Esprit 80 so you can remove the dovetail and install rings on it, but it's not an easy task, at least not to me).

 

I asked the seller and they said the flattener reduces it by 0.83x but is barely noticiable. I feel this is gonna make the scope too zoomed out? Would this be a correct feeling?

I don't believe the stock flattener is also a reducer, did they say it's an aftermarket flattener? Since the Esprit has one that's specifically designed for it, I'd want that one personally.


  • OldManSky likes this

#10 tonyt

tonyt

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,059
  • Joined: 01 Sep 2009
  • Loc: Australia

Posted 23 January 2020 - 06:40 PM

I asked the seller and they said the flattener reduces it by 0.83x but is barely noticiable. I feel this is gonna make the scope too zoomed out? Would this be a correct feeling?

The Esprit has a 1.0x flattener while a 0.85x reducer/flattener is available for the Evostar ED80.

 

Aftermarket reducer/flatteners can be used with the Esprit to get a faster optical system. 



#11 SilverLitz

SilverLitz

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 502
  • Joined: 17 Feb 2018
  • Loc: Louisville, KY

Posted 23 January 2020 - 06:58 PM

The Esprit 100 having proper mounting rings, Losmandy dovetail, a significantly beefier focuser, larger image circle (40mm vs. 33mm), and an extra 20mm of aperture was why I bought the Esprit 100 instead of the 80.  I felt it was the better long run choice.  I also added the TSOAPORED075 0.75x FR/FF, so I also get the wider 413mm FL, but at a faster f/4.13.



#12 kel123

kel123

    Ranger 4

  • -----
  • Posts: 392
  • Joined: 11 May 2019

Posted 23 January 2020 - 07:30 PM

If you plan to use it for both AP and visual, get the Evostar 80ED and save your money but if it is only for AP, get the Esprit 80 and if you don't mind coughing out a little more money, get the Esprit 100.

However, a school of thought in the community has it that with all other equipments and conditions for data acquisition being equal and with good processing skills, it is only the discerning eyes that see the difference between images from a good doublet and an average triplet.
I think Evostar 80ED is one of the best doublets for the money.

#13 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 04:47 AM

If you plan to use it for both AP and visual, get the Evostar 80ED and save your money but if it is only for AP, get the Esprit 80 and if you don't mind coughing out a little more money, get the Esprit 100.

However, a school of thought in the community has it that with all other equipments and conditions for data acquisition being equal and with good processing skills, it is only the discerning eyes that see the difference between images from a good doublet and an average triplet.
I think Evostar 80ED is one of the best doublets for the money.


I plan for entirely AP, with the cheaper scopes the real differences show up in the sharpness and colour quality from what I understand.
They don't have the 100ed available in New Zealand sadly, otherwise I might have gone for it.

#14 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 04:51 AM

Oops nevermind we do have it, but it's twice the price..... That'd be another whole term of saving, if it is definitely SIGNIFICANTLY better I might have to go for it though. There's no way my parents would let me do any sort of modifications as I'm only 15😂😂

#15 RJF-Astro

RJF-Astro

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 260
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Zeist, Netherlands

Posted 24 January 2020 - 05:38 AM

I plan for entirely AP, with the cheaper scopes the real differences show up in the sharpness and colour quality from what I understand.
They don't have the 100ed available in New Zealand sadly, otherwise I might have gone for it.

The main difference will be how it renders stars. Star quality is better on triplets. They are nasty, bright things compared to the dim DSOs.

 

However in my experience, the color and sharpness of DSOs is mostly defined by proper tracking/guiding and post processing. You need to gather good data, stack it and process it to bring out detail and color. So in your budget plans, be sure to include software and guiding. If a triplet means you won't have the funds for good processing tools for a while, I don't know how good an investment it will be at this point.



#16 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 05:58 AM

The main difference will be how it renders stars. Star quality is better on triplets. They are nasty, bright things compared to the dim DSOs.

However in my experience, the color and sharpness of DSOs is mostly defined by proper tracking/guiding and post processing. You need to gather good data, stack it and process it to bring out detail and color. So in your budget plans, be sure to include software and guiding. If a triplet means you won't have the funds for good processing tools for a while, I don't know how good an investment it will be at this point.


I have photoshop and use that, I got it through a patch thing a while ago and it still works!! I definitely agree with the stars part, my friends telescope is a fairly average reflector and the stars on that are quite large, if I can I will attach links to images I have taken

#17 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:07 AM

The telescope my friend owns is a Saxon 13065 AZGT, with the focusing mod to reduce coma and allow photography use (we we now run on the HEQ5 instead of alt az star adventurer)
I use an unmodified canon 600d (t3i I believe?)

Here are the photos:
https://drive.google...js5XH3nj3i_gCUA

Edited by astronomykiwi, 24 January 2020 - 06:11 AM.


#18 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:19 AM

Here the triplet 100ed costs 4200,on our trade website trademe.co.nz (practically ebay) there is a 5 element 100ed for the same price, it is also first hand but I am unsure if a warranty is included

https://www.jacobsdi...iplet-refractor
https://www.trademe.co.nz/2502510977

However the seller may be counting the lenses in the field flattener as elements?

Edited by astronomykiwi, 24 January 2020 - 06:33 AM.


#19 RJF-Astro

RJF-Astro

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 260
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Zeist, Netherlands

Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:38 AM

I have photoshop and use that, I got it through a patch thing a while ago and it still works!! I definitely agree with the stars part, my friends telescope is a fairly average reflector and the stars on that are quite large, if I can I will attach links to images I have taken

Nice color and nebulosity on those images. I think the large stars are mostly due to processing. The stretching that reveals the nebulosity also clips the stars. The trick is to mask them, and stretch carefully.

 

A newton can produce tight stars in the center of the frame if properly collimated. It does not suffer from chromatic abberations like a refractor. And it is CA that bloats the stars. A triplet has less CA compared to a doublet.

 

But PS is a good start for processing. There are some great tools by Noel Carboni for PS: the action set and AstroFlat Pro.



#20 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:46 AM

Nice color and nebulosity on those images. I think the large stars are mostly due to processing. The stretching that reveals the nebulosity also clips the stars. The trick is to mask them, and stretch carefully.

A newton can produce tight stars in the center of the frame if properly collimated. It does not suffer from chromatic abberations like a refractor. And it is CA that bloats the stars. A triplet has less CA compared to a doublet.

But PS is a good start for processing. There are some great tools by Noel Carboni for PS: the action set and AstroFlat Pro.


1. Thanks
2. I agree the stars are partially processing, but also the scope, I will add a picture of the unedited, stacked file (converted to jpg for Instagram compatability)
3.the coma on his scope was REALLY bad before the modification and needed a 2x Barlow to achieve even slight focus before the modification
I've heard shooting r g b separately can almost entirely remove abberation but takes a lot more time is this right?

#21 RJF-Astro

RJF-Astro

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 260
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Zeist, Netherlands

Posted 24 January 2020 - 09:29 AM

Sure! If you can host the tiff-file somewhere, it's even better.

 

About separating the channels: yes and no. This implies that you are imaging with a monochrome camera and color filters, and not a one shot color camera like a dslr. It will help with CA when you refocus between the filters. However a big advantage of mono + RGB is that you also do luminance (LRGB). That means a clear filter in most cases. This gathers signal very fast, making mono more efficient than color. But here is where chromatic abberations will hurt you: they still show up as star bloating with the luminance filter.



#22 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 24 January 2020 - 03:47 PM

Sure! If you can host the tiff-file somewhere, it's even better.

About separating the channels: yes and no. This implies that you are imaging with a monochrome camera and color filters, and not a one shot color camera like a dslr. It will help with CA when you refocus between the filters. However a big advantage of mono + RGB is that you also do luminance (LRGB). That means a clear filter in most cases. This gathers signal very fast, making mono more efficient than color. But here is where chromatic abberations will hurt you: they still show up as star bloating with the luminance filter.


Ohhh okay, that makes sense, I was thinking that doing red green and blue filters would do nothing but ruin the quality for a dslr haha. Can you not do luminance on a colour?

#23 RJF-Astro

RJF-Astro

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 260
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Zeist, Netherlands

Posted 24 January 2020 - 04:10 PM

No not really, because all dslrs have a color filter on their sensor. It's actually a pattern of tiny red, green and blue filters called a bayer matrix. Check out this video by astrovlogger Dylan o Donnel for a nice explanation about mono/color.



#24 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 25 January 2020 - 06:28 PM

No not really, because all dslrs have a color filter on their sensor. It's actually a pattern of tiny red, green and blue filters called a bayer matrix. Check out this video by astrovlogger Dylan o Donnel for a nice explanation about mono/color.


Thanks, that's a really good explanation!

#25 astronomykiwi

astronomykiwi

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 65
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2018

Posted 25 January 2020 - 06:28 PM

New question: Would the 100mm be too heavy for my HEQ5 pro? And would that sort of dovetail thing even let me put it on at all?


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: astrophotography, beginner, dslr, equipment, imaging, refractor, optics



Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics