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Are these fake or legit Zeiss 8x30B

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#51 dries1

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 11:14 PM

It looks legit to me, I have the later 8X30B (1975) with the longer objective barrels, and the original B from 1968.

 

 

Allbinos also has some info here.

https://www.allbinos.com/articles.html

 

 

Andy W.

 

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  • Zeiss 8X30s ed1.jpg
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#52 Corcaroli78

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 02:49 AM

Hi all, 

 

To add a personal comment to this discussion about the authenticity of the binoculars (which i think are legit). the Zeiss West 8x30B is by far not a rare binocular. It is available at any time in european (mostly german and UK) ebay with -i would say- relatively affordable prices and in all cosmetic conditions, therefore, the effort to replicate this model  (and its leather case) is in my opinion not paying off.  Other more sought vintage models like Audobons, SARD...etc etc.. are still not counterfeited (at least to my knowledge) and there is a reason why: you need to age them and look old, used and that takes time and money. This 8x30B could have been partially restored and that is a possibility, but to my eyes, it looks normal.

 

A different history is with some actual Zeiss pocket models, but they are to obviously faked even in pictures. If a Zeiss vintage model needs to be counterfeited, there are many more options that will pay off.

 

but just my 2 cents....

 

Clear skies!

 

Carlos


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#53 FrankL

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 10:35 AM

"A different history is with some actual Zeiss pocket models, but they are to obviously faked even in pictures. If a Zeiss vintage model needs to be counterfeited, there are many more options that will pay off."

 

Carlos makes some good points. Today the real money to be had in fakes is by counterfeiting WW II period German Kriegsmarine or SS markings on binoculars. This is usually done by taking an actual German binocular, removing the original markings (civil or commonplace army ones) and then applying the KM eagle and swastiska plus other markings. With today's technology this can be done very convincingly increasing the value of the binocular by sometimes thousands of dollars. Sometime after the war someone took a lot of British Army Binoprism No. 5 7x50's (common WW II British army binocular worth about $100), polished off the British markings and applied KM markings to them. It's not known how many were made or who did them but they still appear on eBay and militaria sales sites duping the occasional unsuspecting collector into paying hundreds of dollars more than they are worth.

 

During the 1920's and '30's Zeiss binoculars were often faked by applying Zeiss markings (sometimes with imaginary Zeiss sounding model names) to inexpensive French binoculars. Many were crudely done. These still appear on eBay and from time to time do deceive somebody into paying a lot more than their value.

 

Of course, there were all those 1950's - 1960's Japanese binoculars with Germanic sounding maker names like Carl  Wetzlar or other Germanic terminology like Dienstglas or Unterseeboot written on them which may be seen as a sort of fakery. 

 

Regarding the "fake" 1980's period Carl Zeiss Jena binoculars of which many collectors are familiar, it's reported that many if not all of them were built in Japan (?) under license from Carl Zeiss Jena.  I had one which I purchased for a lark and as I recall the objective lenses looked like  genuine CZJ multi-coated ones but the prisms and I think the eyelenses too did not. Overall,  the quality of the binocular was poor, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was, in fact, built under license with CZJ supplying the objective lenses.  


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#54 Michael Covington

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 10:54 AM

I agree that the marking with those over-runs does not look correct, but in all other respects the binocular looks perfectly like an original and I still think it is. I believe that somebody for some reason tried to enhance or redo the Carl Zeiss marking by tracing inside the original marking with a finely pointed sharp instrument and hence, the overruns.

Extremely good point.  Maybe the white paint got something dark on it, and someone used a sharp instrument to clean it out and renew it.



#55 Mike Spooner

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 11:09 AM

One thing I noticed from casually comparing the few sample photos here is the size of the x on the OP's model. Perhaps due to the addition of the B in the designation. Post #51 has a good comparison. Out of curiosity I'm going to check my later 10 x 50s lettering. They're optically some of the finest I've used so I'm keeping them even if they're fake.smile.gif

 

Mike Spooner


Edited by Mike Spooner, 27 January 2020 - 11:13 AM.

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#56 Corcaroli78

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 04:47 PM

 

".....Today the real money to be had in fakes is by counterfeiting WW II period German Kriegsmarine or SS markings on binoculars. This is usually done by taking an actual German binocular, removing the original markings (civil or commonplace army ones) and then applying the KM eagle and swastiska plus other markings. With today's technology this can be done very convincingly increasing the value of the binocular by sometimes thousands of dollars". 

That was exactly my point. the Zeiss West 8x30B does not have (and i think will not have) the value to be faked compared with a WWI or WWII bino (and i know militaria fans who are able to pay a lot for a blc bino or a Flak in any condition). The money is there but that is why people is more cautious buying those U-Boot binos....unless they don´t care about the optics at all.

 

Carlos


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#57 j.gardavsky

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 10:50 AM

Just on a side line,

 

Carl Zeiss Jena has also licensed some of the binoculars to countries, you would not believe it,

https://picclick.de/...ml#&gid=1&pid=3

as the 8x30 have been popular as tactical binoculars,

 

JG



#58 25585

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 02:06 PM

http://home.europa.c...pe/zeissbn2.txt



#59 Yarddog

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 04:46 PM

Someone locally is advertising like new "Made in Germany" 8X30 Carl Weiss binoculars.

 

The photo shows they are indeed like new.

 

Chances are 99 to 1 they are made in Japan or some other country in the Orient.



#60 shredder1656

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 06:10 PM

Someone locally is advertising like new "Made in Germany" 8X30 Carl Weiss binoculars.

 

The photo shows they are indeed like new.

 

Chances are 99 to 1 they are made in Japan or some other country in the Orient.

Is that a typo, or actually "Weiss"?shocked.gif



#61 Yarddog

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 06:20 PM

They probably want us to think it is a typo but the binocular actually is marked "Carl Weiss". and "Made In West Germany".

 

Imagine that. A new Carl Weiss 8X30 for only $40.


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#62 hallelujah

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 06:33 PM

More information from Holger:

 

Number 1 & number 5 as you scroll down.

 

Number 1 has already been shared on CN.

 

https://duckduckgo.c...atb=v1-1&ia=web

 

Stan



#63 dries1

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 07:49 PM

I think Post #41 with the question and #54 are potentially the likely scenarios. Besides the serial Number at the hinge base the shoulder plates are the only area of text on the model, and often retouched if in rough shape or even replaced.

 

 

Andy W.



#64 Corcaroli78

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 01:58 AM

They probably want us to think it is a typo but the binocular actually is marked "Carl Weiss". and "Made In West Germany".

 

Imagine that. A new Carl Weiss 8X30 for only $40.

It could happen...

 

I bought a perfect, unused Carl Zeiss Jena 8x30W (dated 1986) in a pawn shop two years ago in Magdeburg, Germany  for ca. 30 usd. and the seller was fully aware of what he was offering to me. Pawn shops (Trödel) have plenty of Zeiss binos especially in the former East Germany, usually at low prices because they know they are abundant and they want to move inventory.  I was offered a Zeiss Turmon 8x20 pocket monocular for 20 usd, and i regret not buying it. The seller also had many russian binos which were priced higher than the Zeiss.

 

West German binos are less abundant, but found at any time around 100-200 Eur

 

Carlos


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#65 PhilUK

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 05:41 AM

Hi there from the UK,

I've just joined Cloudy Nights as I've an interest in Astronomy but saw this forum. As a birder in addition I've been using binoculars of various types for 50 years now and having looked at your pictures there is no doubt in my mind that these are genuine Carl Zeiss 8x30 B binoculars. Everything about them looks right although your photos of the rubber eyecups look as if they are larger than they might be in reality, possibly due to the photo being taken by a wide angle lens on a phone with the resultant distortion. If I were selling them on Ebay I'd have no problem in saying they were genuine. The only "fake" Zeiss bins that I know of are the Japanese produced "Jena" Jenoptems in 8x30 and 10x50 and have never seen a fake West German Zeiss.

Phil


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#66 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 07:29 AM

Hi there from the UK,

I've just joined Cloudy Nights as I've an interest in Astronomy but saw this forum. As a birder in addition I've been using binoculars of various types for 50 years now and having looked at your pictures there is no doubt in my mind that these are genuine Carl Zeiss 8x30 B binoculars. Everything about them looks right although your photos of the rubber eyecups look as if they are larger than they might be in reality, possibly due to the photo being taken by a wide angle lens on a phone with the resultant distortion. If I were selling them on Ebay I'd have no problem in saying they were genuine. The only "fake" Zeiss bins that I know of are the Japanese produced "Jena" Jenoptems in 8x30 and 10x50 and have never seen a fake West German Zeiss.

Phil

 

Phil:

 

Hello and :welcome: to Cloudy Nights.

 

The binocular forum has binocular users of all types and I think most astronomers do at least a little birding.. Some very knowledgeable people here, it seems like we just gained another one. 

 

Some members will even go so far as to try to talk you into using telescopes.. :)  I'm probably the worst in this regard. 

 

Jon


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#67 PhilUK

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 10:30 AM

Thanks Jon,

Won't be buying any more telescopes as already have Televue 76, Meade ETX 105 and Carl Zeiss 63mm Telementor. That's enough for me! The combination of the American refractor with my old 4 and 6mm Zeiss eyepieces is a good one on the moon and planets. 

Regards

Phil


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#68 exhogflyer

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 01:57 PM

They're legit. Nobody clones old binos or old riflescopes, there's virtually no market for that UNLESS they are some collectible antique worth big $$$ and in demand. 



#69 Corcaroli78

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 03:58 PM

Thanks Jon,

Won't be buying any more telescopes as already have Televue 76, Meade ETX 105 and Carl Zeiss 63mm Telementor. That's enough for me! The combination of the American refractor with my old 4 and 6mm Zeiss eyepieces is a good one on the moon and planets. 

Regards

Phil

Welcome to CN PhilUk!

 

Certainly you have a nice quality telescope combo :-) I have been lucky to have found some of my best vintage Zeiss around Sandhurst! UK birders use them a lot! 

 

Greetings from Denmark

Carlos


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#70 JCB

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Posted 30 January 2020 - 06:47 PM

These binoculars seem to be the second version described in the link given in post #9.
They have a very uncommon feature: the two lenses of the objectives are largely spaced, as can be seen in this illustration:

Zeiss Porro 8x30B version 2.jpg

It should be easy to verify that they have two lenses far apart, by looking through the objective, and expecting light reflections of a lamp.
If there are two separated lenses, it can't be a fake.

Jean-Charles
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#71 rossmr

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 04:48 AM

Good morning, I was offered these 7x50 binoculars as a WWII Dienstglas/Zeiss, but personally, I have never seen anything like it ( but I am not very knowledgeable about binoculars) and I have doubts about the real authenticity of the binoculars. Looking at it to me it does not look like 7x50 binoculars, it looks more like wide-field binoculars such as the Sard 6x42.  What do the experts think about these binoculars?

 

 

Best regards

 

rossmr

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  • Presentazione standard1.jpg


#72 PhilUK

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 06:13 AM

I've had a quick look at these and sent the pics to a friend more knowledgeable than me. They don't look like any Carl Zeiss glass I've seen before and I looked up the 3 letter code on the left hand top plate IMG. I could not find any manufacturer with that code but a close one was lmq...l m q   CARL ZEISS  (assembled from foreign components)

   JENA   GERMANY. So at this stage they are a mystery to me. The eyepieces might be Zeiss and the body could be perhaps Rumanian, but that's a total guess. I'll get back to you.



#73 PhilUK

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:22 AM

Further info for you

The binocular is a Zeiss but it is not a dienstglas.

It is a Zeiss Obercochen porro prism which they did not start making until 1956 !!!!!

It has had the top plates re-engraved or engraving added to top plates from a rubber armoured 7x50 BGa which were originally blank. Sometimes that glass was marketed with the name "Opton"

As a 7x50 it is a nice glass if in good usable condition but it all depends on price. Given it is not a Dienstglas merely a mucked about 7x50 may mean you are in a good bargaining position.

Hope that helps

Phil.



#74 opticchase

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:54 PM

If someone went to the trouble of making  a copy this well don't you think there would be others out there to make his effort worth while? None have been reported that I know of.  I  have four Oberkochen Zeiss from that exact same era and none say West .  They are 8x30, 8x50, 10x50 and 15x60.  Your 8x30  is exactly like mine. You have a Zeiss West no doubt.

Regards

Richard


Edited by opticchase, 08 April 2021 - 10:09 PM.


#75 opticchase

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:54 PM

If someone went to the trouble of making  a copy this well don't you think there would be others out there to make his effort worth while? None have been reported that I know of.  I  have four Oberkochen Zeiss from that exact same era and none say West .  They are 8x30, 8x50, 10x50 and 15x60.  Your 8x30  is exactly like mine. You have a Zeiss no doubt.

Regards

Richard




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