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Choosing a 18-22mm EP for a 10" Dobs

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#1 korman643

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 03:21 AM

Hello everybody,

 

I need once again some help from this forum.

 

For my XT10 Dobs F4.7 (Orion) I use the following EPs:

 

  • 9mm Celestron X-CEL LX (a great one),
  • 15mm Celestron Omnia (OK)
  • 25mm Orion Sirius (the one that came with the Dobs, OK but not great)
  • 30mm TS Optics 2". (great)

 

I've few others on short FLs but I don't use them with the XT10 and they're really budget items. 

 

I would like to have something in the 18-22mm range to get 55x to 65x magnification with open clusters (who make most of my current observing list) and galaxies when I'm under dark skies.

 

I don't wear glasses but I may be forced to in the near future, and in general I prefer a more comfortable eye relief.

 

Checking online for what's available for sale (or e-sale) here in Italy and using where possible Don's magnificent Eyepiece Buyer Guide as a reference I've made this "short" smile.gif list you see below

 

My budget is max 150€. Prices in the list below are the best I've got googling / making phone calls and I've no idea if they're really the lowest available. Conversion in USD is given as a reference from anyone reading this from America.

 

The question I kindly ask here to answer are:

 

  1. What are  in you experience the EP listed with the best cost to quality ratio?
  2. Do you think the idea to have a 55x to 65x mag. EP make any real sense? Or should I rather replace the 25mm? 

 

Once again thanks in advance for any feedback i will get

 

 

[EDIT - I've tried to insert this list as a formatted table from Word, but for some reason it doesn't work)

 

Series FL AFOV ER Price EUR Price USD Diam Mag TFOV EP
APM / Tecnosky UFF 18 65 20 119 € $131 1,25 67 0,98 3,8
APM FF 19 60 17 88 € $97 1,25 63 0,95 4,0
Astro Professional LE 18 55 20 79 € $87 1,25 67 0,83 3,8
Auriga WA 20 65 17 45 € $50 1,25 60 1,08 4,2
Baader Hyperion 21 68 20 120 € $132 1,25 57 1,19 4,4
Celestron XCEL LX 18 60 16 99 € $109 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
ES 62* LER 20 62 14,8 89 € $98 1,25 60 1,03 4,2
ES 68° N2 20 68 15,3 139 € $153 1,25 60 1,13 4,2
Meade 5000 HD 60° 18 60 17 129 € $142 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
Omegon LE 18 55 20 99 € $109 1,25 67 0,83 3,8
Omegon FF 18 60 16 119 € $131 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
Omegon Oberon 2" 19 82 20 149 € $164 2 63 1,30 4,0
Orion EF Widefield 19 65 18,5 72 € $79 1,25 63 1,03 4,0
Orion Expanse 20 66 18 45 € $50 1,25 60 1,10 4,2
Skywatcher EF  19 65 19 99 € $109 1,25 63 1,03 4,0
TS Optics NED 18 60 16 78 € $86 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
Tecnosky Planetary 20 58 18 59 € $65 1,25 60 0,97 4,2
Televue Plossl 20 50 14 115 € $127 1,25 60 0,83 4,2
TS Optics Expanse Exp22 22 70 20 119 € $131 2 55 1,28 4,7
TS Optics FF 19 65 17 64 € $70 1,25 63 1,03 4,0
TS Optics HR 20 58 16 69 € $76 1,25 60 0,97 4,2
TS Optics WA 20 70 17 49 € $54 1,25 60 1,17 4,2
Vixen SLV 20 50 20 125 € $138 1,25 60 0,83 4,2
William Optics SWAN 20 72 17 91 € $100 1,25 60 1,20 4,2


Edited by korman643, 26 January 2020 - 08:49 AM.


#2 25585

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 07:28 AM

Hello everybody,

 

I need once again some help from this forum.

 

For my XT10 Dobs F4.7 (Orion) I use the following EPs:

 

  • 9mm Celestron X-CEL LX (a great one),
  • 15mm Celestron Omnia (OK)
  • 25mm Orion Sirius (the one that came with the Dobs, OK but not great)
  • 30mm TS Optics 2". (great)

 

I've few others on short FLs but I don't use them with the XT10 and they're really budget items. 

 

I would like to have something in the 18-22mm range to get 55x to 65x magnification with open clusters (who make most of my current observing list) and galaxies when I'm under dark skies.

 

I don't wear glasses but I may be forced to in the near future, and in general I prefer a more comfortable eye relief.

 

Checking online for what's available for sale (or e-sale) here in Italy and using where possible Don's magnificent Eyepiece Buyer Guide as a reference I've made this "short" smile.gif list you see below

 

My budget is max 150€. Prices in the list below are the best I've got googling / making phone calls and I've no idea if they're really the lowest available. Conversion in USD is given as a reference from anyone reading this from America.

 

The question I kindly ask here to answer are:

 

  1. What are  in you experience the EP listed with the best cost to quality ratio?
  2. Do you think the idea to have a 55x to 65x mag. EP make any real sense? Or should I rather replace the 25mm? 

 

Once again thanks in advance for any feedback i will get

 

 

[EDIT - I've tried to insert this list as a formatted table from Word, but for some reason it doesn't work)

Series FL AFOV ER Price EUR Price USD Diam Mag TFOV EP
APM / Tecnosky UFF 18 65 20 119 € $131 1,25 67 0,98 3,8
APM FF 19 60 17 88 € $97 1,25 63 0,95 4,0
Astro Professional LE 18 55 20 79 € $87 1,25 67 0,83 3,8
Auriga WA 20 65 17 45 € $50 1,25 60 1,08 4,2
Baader Hyperion 21 68 20 120 € $132 1,25 57 1,19 4,4
Celextron XCEL LX 18 60 16 99 € $109 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
ES 62* LER 20 62 14,8 89 € $98 1,25 60 1,03 4,2
ES 68° N2 20 68 15,3 139 € $153 1,25 60 1,13 4,2
Meade 5000 HD 60° 18 60 17 129 € $142 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
Omegon LE 18 55 20 99 € $109 1,25 67 0,83 3,8
Omegon FF 18 60 16 119 € $131 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
Omegon Oberon 2" 19 82 20 149 € $164 2 63 1,30 4,0
Orion EF Widefield 19 65 18,5 72 € $79 1,25 63 1,03 4,0
Orion Expanse 20 66 18 45 € $50 1,25 60 1,10 4,2
Skywatcher EF  19 65 19 99 € $109 1,25 63 1,03 4,0
TS Optics NED 18 60 16 78 € $86 1,25 67 0,90 3,8
Tecnosky Planetary 20 58 18 59 € $65 1,25 60 0,97 4,2
Televue Plossl 20 50 14 115 € $127 1,25 60 0,83 4,2
TS Optics Expanse Exp22 22 70 20 119 € $131 2 55 1,28 4,7
TS Optics FF 19 65 17 64 € $70 1,25 63 1,03 4,0
TS Optics HR 20 58 16 69 € $76 1,25 60 0,97 4,2
TS Optics WA 20 70 17 49 € $54 1,25 60 1,17 4,2
Vixen SLV 20 50 20 125 € $138 1,25 60 0,83 4,2
William Optics SWAN 20 72 17 91 € $100 1,25 60 1,20 4,2

TS Expanse 22mm 70 degrees is a good eyepiece for eye relief.

Vixen SLV, Meade HD-60? Celestron X-Cel LX, and Baader Hyperion ranges all have good eye relief.

 

Tele Vue Plossls only for 32mm and 40mm. APM or Altair Ultra Flat only for 24mm and 30mm.


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#3 clivemilne

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 07:46 AM

Easy...  

Check the classifieds twice a day and eventually a Morpheus 17.5mm will come up at that price... 

  It might take you 6 months but it will be worth the wait.


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#4 korman643

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 08:45 AM

Easy...  

Check the classifieds twice a day and eventually a Morpheus 17.5mm will come up at that price... 

  It might take you 6 months but it will be worth the wait.

Thanks! But  I've seen several Morpheus sales and they were never below 200€



#5 korman643

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 08:50 AM

TS Expanse 22mm 70 degrees is a good eyepiece for eye relief.
Vixen SLV, Meade HD-60? Celestron X-Cel LX, and Baader Hyperion ranges all have good eye relief.

Tele Vue Plossls only for 32mm and 40mm. APM or Altair Ultra Flat only for 24mm and 30mm.

Thank you! I was curious about the Expanse, as it has some very nice review online

Edited by korman643, 27 January 2020 - 04:00 AM.

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#6 25585

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 09:12 AM

 Thank you! I was curious about the Expanse, as it has some very nice review onlibe

Same optics as the Celestron Ultima LX used, and Olivon 22mm 70 degs. There is also the Sky-Watcher 22mm 70 degs, same again.

 

Using mine, with a S-W 10" F5 Dob, I can see M81 & M82 in the same FoV.


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#7 SeattleScott

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 09:45 AM

The Orion Expanse is respectable in fast scopes in the 6 and 9 focal lengths. I don’t think you would be happy with the 20 in a fast Dob.

The 18 is the weak link of the Meade HD-60/Celestron Xcel lines. Won’t perform well in a fast Dob.

The 21 Hyperion is reportedly the best in the series. Normally the series is recommended for F6 and higher. With the 21 being the best, it could be fine at F5. Not sure.

The ES 68 series performs pretty well at F5, but doesn’t have enough ER for glasses.

I am not familiar with the rest of the models you listed.

Scott
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#8 csrlice12

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 11:32 AM

Used 22 Panoptic...


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#9 korman643

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 04:56 AM

Used 22 Panoptic...


I would love to own one, but even used I've never seen on below 180€

#10 Tfer

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:11 PM

In my 10" SkyWatcher, I use the 21mm Baader Hyperion.  Wonderful views, but the eyecup drove me crazy - constantly coming off as I raised it.

 

Epoxy fixed that....


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#11 JoshUrban

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:48 PM

I second that Panoptic vote!  They are awesome eyepieces, and I just did a search over on the classifieds section.  Saw a few that have sold for around $150.  There's a few to choose from in that line, from 15mm up to 24mm.

 

  A note on the 15mm.  It'll likely be the easiest to find cheap, BUT:  some people don't like the tight eye relief.  I own it, and enjoy the views, although the 22mm is a much heftier, easier to use piece, and I like the views from that better.  (I like big eye lenses.)  

 

  My FAVORITE eyepiece in that focal neighborhood is the 20mm T5 Nagler, but that's definitely expensive!  However, the Panoptics rock, and it looks like you might actually be able to get a used one!  I'm guessing the cheap ones go fast, so keep a close eye out.  


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#12 ewave

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 09:34 PM

My vote goes to a used 18.2 mm Televue Delite.  I have this ep and it offers incredible correction, sharpness and contrast in my fast apo.

 

On a different note,  I also happen to own the 17.5 Morpheous, which cost me ~ $175 when it first went on sale here in the US.  This is about 150 Euros.

 

What you really need is the EU equivalent to NEAF or call it the EUAF.... lol.gif 



#13 SeattleScott

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 12:11 AM

If we are talking used Panoptic or Delite, then the 22LVW is worth considering. Although I get the impression the Televue’s are too pricey.

Scott
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#14 korman643

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:01 AM

If we are talking used Panoptic or Delite, then the 22LVW is worth considering. Although I get the impression the Televue’s are too pricey.

Scott

Hi Scott, do you mean the Vixen 22mm?



#15 korman643

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:07 AM

My vote goes to a used 18.2 mm Televue Delite.  I have this ep and it offers incredible correction, sharpness and contrast in my fast apo.

 

On a different note,  I also happen to own the 17.5 Morpheous, which cost me ~ $175 when it first went on sale here in the US.  This is about 150 Euros.

 

What you really need is the EU equivalent to NEAF or call it the EUAF.... lol.gif

For anything labelled Televue, the problem is always the same. I keep reading about the fabulous quality, and indeed the few times I had a chance to try one, the quality was there. But even used, Delos / Naglers / Panoptics would blow my budget. I half suspect I may in the end just decide to wait maybe one year and buy the freakin' TVs, but also I keep asking myself if "good quality now" ain't far better than "awesome quality far in the future..."


Edited by korman643, 12 February 2020 - 03:35 AM.


#16 korman643

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:09 AM

I second that Panoptic vote!  They are awesome eyepieces, and I just did a search over on the classifieds section.  Saw a few that have sold for around $150.  There's a few to choose from in that line, from 15mm up to 24mm.

 

  A note on the 15mm.  It'll likely be the easiest to find cheap, BUT:  some people don't like the tight eye relief.  I own it, and enjoy the views, although the 22mm is a much heftier, easier to use piece, and I like the views from that better.  (I like big eye lenses.)  

 

  My FAVORITE eyepiece in that focal neighborhood is the 20mm T5 Nagler, but that's definitely expensive!  However, the Panoptics rock, and it looks like you might actually be able to get a used one!  I'm guessing the cheap ones go fast, so keep a close eye out.  

 

Hi Josh, indeed the tight ER of the Panoptics is yet another reason I'm a bit dubious about partying with my hard earned cash to get one. I don't wear glasses now, but I may be in the near future.



#17 25585

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:26 AM

For anything labelled Televue, the problem is always the same. I keep reading about the fabulous quality, and indeed the few times I had a chance to try one, the quality was there. But even used, Delos / Naglers / Panoptics would blow my budge. I half suspect I may in the end just decide to wait maybe one year and buy the freakin' TVs, but on the other end I keep telling myself if "good quality now" ain't far better than "awesome quality far in the future..."

While TV are great optically, they are not now the only maker of good eyepieces. Waiting to buy a TV is letting life and viewing chances pass you by. 

 

The 18mm Delite is a good introduction to TV in the FL range you stipulated, but others recommended in this thread are very pleasing to use too.


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#18 SeattleScott

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:05 AM

Hi Scott, do you mean the Vixen 22mm?

Yes

#19 Tfer

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:56 PM

I love my 24mm TV Panoptic.  Reasonably priced as well.

 

But my Baader 21mm holds its own pretty well in comparison.


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#20 SteveG

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:22 PM

Yes

The Vixen LVW 22 can be had for $170 USD (place a want ad). I picked one up for my small, f5 dob. The eyepiece seems to somehow correct for coma at f5. It's lightweight, has 20mm eye relief, and a very well corrected 65 deg afov.

 

I like it better than the ES 24/68 or Pan 24.


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#21 Miranda2525

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 05:43 PM

In my 10" SkyWatcher, I use the 21mm Baader Hyperion.  Wonderful views, but the eyecup drove me crazy - constantly coming off as I raised it.

 

Epoxy fixed that....

You can screw on the eye cup from the Baader Morpheus to the 21mm Hyperion. It fits perfectly. I have one on mine.


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#22 Tfer

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 06:52 PM

You can screw on the eye cup from the Baader Morpheus to the 21mm Hyperion. It fits perfectly. I have one on mine.

Mine is now glued on!  But for anyone else who’s reading this, it’s a great tip!


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#23 Miranda2525

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 03:06 AM

Here is the 21mm Baader Hyperion with the Baader Morpheus eye cup on it. Both up and down positions shown. Wonderful solution!  (No glue needed). The threads fit perfectly on this eyepiece. This and the 17mm are the two best in the line. I have also tried the 5mm, which was also good. Avoid the 13mm if you can.

 

I use a 14mm fine tuning ring on this one. I have found that it decreases the level of edge-of-field brightening in this eyepiece. When used alone without it, it is there to a slight degree. 

 

It also gives me the equivalent of a 17.6mm eyepiece, which I need anyways.

Attached Thumbnails

  • 21mm Hyperion + Morpheus eye cup.JPG
  • 21mm Hyperion + Morpheus eye cup 2.JPG

Edited by Miranda2525, 13 February 2020 - 05:46 AM.

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#24 25585

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 08:25 AM

Hyperions and Morpheus have M42 screw threads, and eyecups + spacers are M43 so they all fit.


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#25 JoshUrban

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Posted 13 February 2020 - 05:05 PM

Hi Josh, indeed the tight ER of the Panoptics is yet another reason I'm a bit dubious about partying with my hard earned cash to get one. I don't wear glasses now, but I may be in the near future.

Yeah, you might want to try a 15mm Pan before buying that one.  I got mine years ago when I had "eagle powers", but I'm in the same boat as you - glasses are on the horizon.  However, it's my impression the other Pans are fine.  I've got the 15, 22, and 27, and love them all.  

 

  If it's a choice between waiting a year to get a NEW Televue or buying some good now, I'd buy good now.  But:  the used market on here is so cool, and you might be able to get exactly what you're looking for.  

 

  That being said, it doesn't have to be Green 'n Black to be good!  I have confirmation bias:  I have Televue, I know they're good, and I like the views.  However, some of the folks here have done extensive shootout reviews, and I always learn a ton by reading those.  Point is:  I think you'd love a Panoptic, and I bet there's a dozen other options that you'd love, too!


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