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Are there any spherical meteorites?

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#1 stonesnuffer

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 04:14 PM

Hello every one, i hereby start a pretty controversial topic and that is the possibilities of spherical meteorites (excuse my writing but i am dutch). I have made a pretty cool discovery of two spherical meteorites. And one has incredeble crystals and wildmanstate paterns. Realy out of this world. These wher found as canonballs but after i cleaned them en looked at it with a miscroscope i recognzed meteoritic trademarks. So has anyone discovered a spherical meteorite out there iron or stone. The one's i found are most likely iron. Hope to hear from someone.



#2 stonesnuffer

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 04:35 PM

here a first pic of one of the sphere's but sadly i can photograph the crystals that are most lykely camacite crystals 60% angels

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#3 photoracer18

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 05:17 PM

If they don't contain nickel they aren't meteorites. However nothing says they can't be meteoric iron shaped to be used as cannonballs. Although nickel-iron is harder to work. Original cannonballs were shaped stone, around 1450 AD I think. Maybe there was a transition period when they used iron chondrite meteorites if they found them. But as far as I know there are no spherical iron meteorites because iron only gets that way by being worked as it generally falls to earth and maintains its original shape right thru including impact. A stone meteor would not survive the atmosphere no matter the shape. Without a chemical analysis showing nickel-iron anything you see on the surface is total speculation.


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#4 stonesnuffer

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 04:42 AM

If they don't contain nickel they aren't meteorites. However nothing says they can't be meteoric iron shaped to be used as cannonballs. Although nickel-iron is harder to work. Original cannonballs were shaped stone, around 1450 AD I think. Maybe there was a transition period when they used iron chondrite meteorites if they found them. But as far as I know there are no spherical iron meteorites because iron only gets that way by being worked as it generally falls to earth and maintains its original shape right thru including impact. A stone meteor would not survive the atmosphere no matter the shape. Without a chemical analysis showing nickel-iron anything you see on the surface is total speculation.

Thank you for the explenation, i understand. But i have seen real natural crystal plaines on the large sphere and tipical kamacite crystal sructures. But i am also stumped by this discovery. It's a pitty a can't get the crystal on the photo, but if i am holding it in the light i can clearly see the crystal plaines from a distance they are about 0.5 cm wide. Nickeltest would be nessesaire.



#5 happylimpet

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 05:07 AM

https://www.skyandte...icrometeorites/

 

Many micrometeorites are spherical.


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#6 Glassthrower

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Posted 28 January 2020 - 06:45 AM

Sorry, those are NOT meteorites.
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#7 stonesnuffer

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 01:03 PM

I have one small sphere which i did grind a window in. I can't be a connonball because of the stony skinn on it hematite like. On the photo you can see white spots those are metal. If anyone has an idea what this could be, i love to hear it. measures 5 to 5,5 cm and weighs 258 grams and is strong magnetic. This is a documented dutch find of 1 meter depth.

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#8 lee14

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 02:28 PM

Yes, many micro-meteorites are spherical, but ones of this size are not. No, not all meteorites contain nickel, nor iron for that matter. Most contain varying amounts, but not all. Since this one is attracted to a magnet there's iron present, and the 'skin' is almost certainly oxidized iron. Using your measurements, the density works out to 3.9g/cc, a bit less than half that of iron. The lower density indicates more oxidation than is apparent, or a less dense material in the composition. Cannonballs came in a variety of sizes, so that's certainly a possibility. This actual cannonball does look a lot like your image.

 

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Edited by lee14, 01 February 2020 - 05:20 PM.

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#9 Thorkill

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Posted 01 February 2020 - 07:12 PM

Hello every one, i hereby start a pretty controversial topic and that is the possibilities of spherical meteorites (excuse my writing but i am dutch). I have made a pretty cool discovery of two spherical meteorites. And one has incredeble crystals and wildmanstate paterns. Realy out of this world. These wher found as canonballs but after i cleaned them en looked at it with a miscroscope i recognzed meteoritic trademarks. So has anyone discovered a spherical meteorite out there iron or stone. The one's i found are most likely iron. Hope to hear from someone.

Have you found it yourself? With metal detector?

 

Crystal patterns i belive is normal in iron scraps, not that your spheres are scraps but some of the metal scrap i`ve dug up shows these crystal patterns, but they don`t look exactly like widmanst├Ątten pattern usually do.



#10 stonesnuffer

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:08 AM

attachicon.gifUnknown 3.jpgYes, many micro-meteorites are spherical, but ones of this size are not. No, not all meteorites contain nickel, nor iron for that matter. Most contain varying amounts, but not all. Since this one is attracted to a magnet there's iron present, and the 'skin' is almost certainly oxidized iron. Using your measurements, the density works out to 3.9g/cc, a bit less than half that of iron. The lower density indicates more oxidation than is apparent, or a less dense material in the composition. Cannonballs came in a variety of sizes, so that's certainly a possibility. This actual cannonball does look a lot like your image.

 

Lee

Thanks for the info, very interesting. And it is strange that my sphere has such a low density, which confirms more a stony meteorite. Because you already said it yourself iron or cast iron has a density of more than 7. And the owner of the object had already removed alot of rust with a hamer. So this object had rust and underneanth iron oxide.



#11 stonesnuffer

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:16 AM

Have you found it yourself? With metal detector?

 

Crystal patterns i belive is normal in iron scraps, not that your spheres are scraps but some of the metal scrap i`ve dug up shows these crystal patterns, but they don`t look exactly like widmanst├Ątten pattern usually do.

Hello, no i bought these two objects from a metal detectorist because they looked strange. THe big sphere has defently natural formed iron crystals which you can seen from a meter away, glinting in the sunlight and it seems solid iron. It even seems it has some willdman state paterns in the crystals themselfs.the small one is unknown what it is, but has less iron hens density of 3,9



#12 Thorkill

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 07:08 AM

Hello, no i bought these two objects from a metal detectorist because they looked strange. THe big sphere has defently natural formed iron crystals which you can seen from a meter away, glinting in the sunlight and it seems solid iron. It even seems it has some willdman state paterns in the crystals themselfs.the small one is unknown what it is, but has less iron hens density of 3,9

Hey, ok. I think the explanation from photoracer18 seems to make the most sense, and a iron rich rock shaped as a cannonball would give a density around 4, but that would vary alot depending on the amount of iron. I think the crystal patterns is a normal process when iron solidify, at least when it`s not pure. Widmannstatten pattern in meteorites is not exactly the same but on a limited sample size they can look alike to the untrained eye.

 

Have you done the streak test? If you scrape the area in the window you have made on to a piece of unglazed ceramic like a tile, bottom of a coffee cup or the like check if it leave a visible streak.

 

If they don't contain nickel they aren't meteorites. However nothing says they can't be meteoric iron shaped to be used as cannonballs. Although nickel-iron is harder to work. Original cannonballs were shaped stone, around 1450 AD I think. Maybe there was a transition period when they used iron chondrite meteorites if they found them. But as far as I know there are no spherical iron meteorites because iron only gets that way by being worked as it generally falls to earth and maintains its original shape right thru including impact. A stone meteor would not survive the atmosphere no matter the shape. Without a chemical analysis showing nickel-iron anything you see on the surface is total speculation.



#13 stonesnuffer

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 09:59 AM

Hey, ok. I think the explanation from photoracer18 seems to make the most sense, and a iron rich rock shaped as a cannonball would give a density around 4, but that would vary alot depending on the amount of iron. I think the crystal patterns is a normal process when iron solidify, at least when it`s not pure. Widmannstatten pattern in meteorites is not exactly the same but on a limited sample size they can look alike to the untrained eye.

 

Have you done the streak test? If you scrape the area in the window you have made on to a piece of unglazed ceramic like a tile, bottom of a coffee cup or the like check if it leave a visible streak.

Hello, it's hard to tell someone what is see in reality. But i have found out the the two sphere differ alot even when they where found close to each other. The big sphere is defently metalic through out and has NATURAL formed crystals. What they are is unknown but the streaktest confirmed that it isn't pyrite but metal. The small sphere has far to less metal tob be a canonball or some other manmade steel/iron ball. And it has specks of metal instead of metal throughout the sphere like number one.



#14 Thorkill

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 11:34 AM

Hello, it's hard to tell someone what is see in reality. But i have found out the the two sphere differ alot even when they where found close to each other. The big sphere is defently metalic through out and has NATURAL formed crystals. What they are is unknown but the streaktest confirmed that it isn't pyrite but metal. The small sphere has far to less metal tob be a canonball or some other manmade steel/iron ball. And it has specks of metal instead of metal throughout the sphere like number one.

Hey, i get it that it`s difficult to explain a observation. It`s also very difficult for a beginner to separate all the different things to look for. That`s why experienced meteorite handlers answers with just yes/no sentences, because it`s a endless amount of talking to explain "why" and they probably done tons of hours discussing it at this point in time.

 

I speak as a beginner myself, and it takes a fair amount of hobby studying just to get to a baseline of knowledge where you can separate all the different aspects before you have a chance to make the correct assumption, wich still might be completly wrong because of lack of experience. So to be clear just the theorethical facts regarding meteorites is a very complicated field, and when you get to earthly geology it is even worse. And you have to have a small theorethical baseline in both before you have a chance making a qualified guess. 

 

Regarding crystallization all of them are a "natural" process, question is wether it is terrestrial or not. A crystall structure is most likely terrestrial, widmannstattern pattern is very noticeable compared to natural crystallization in metal and something that isn`t visible without a very careful work on the metal, both with grinding and polishing it, but also apply the correct acids to get it visible.

 

The streak test is supposed to give a indication if the metal is terrestrial or extra terrestrial, not to confirm that it isn`t pyrite. If it streaks black or brownish/red then it is a earthly metal, if it streaks blank with no color then it might be extra terrestrial, but there are the rare cases where you can find earthly metal that doesn`t streak with a color, but those are very rare.

 

And as photoracer18 said that sometimes way back in time they shaped stones to cannonballs, a preferably they shaped ironbearing stones as cannonballs because they have more mass to volume ratio and probably easier to shape completly spheric compared to non iron bearing rocks. So chances are that a spheric ironbearing rock is a very early cannonball, and chances are that a spheric metal ball is also a cannonball. 


Edited by Thorkill, 02 February 2020 - 12:18 PM.


#15 stonesnuffer

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 12:25 PM

Hey, i get it that it`s difficult to explain a observation. It`s also very difficult for a beginner to separate all the different things to look for. That`s why experienced meteorite handlers answers with just yes/no sentences, because it`s a endless amount of talking to explain "why" and they probably done tons of hours discussing it at this point in time.

 

I speak as a beginner myself, and it takes a fair amount of hobby studying just to get to a baseline of knowledge where you can separate all the different aspects before you have a chance to make the correct assumption, wich still might be completly wrong because of lack of experience. So to be clear just the theorethical facts regarding meteorites is a very complicated field, and when you get to earthly geology it is even worse. And you have to have a small theorethical baseline in both before you have a chance making a qualified guess. 

 

Regarding crystallization all of them are a "natural" process, question is wether it is terrestrial or not. A crystall structure is most likely terrestrial, widmannstattern pattern is very noticeable compared to natural crystallization in metal and something that isn`t visible without a very careful work on the metal, both with grinding and polishing it, but also apply the correct acids to get it visible.

 

The streak test is supposed to give a indication if the metal is terrestrial or extra terrestrial, not to confirm that it isn`t pyrite. If it streaks black or brownish/red then it is a earthly metal, if it streaks blank with no color then it might be extra terrestrial, but there are the rare cases where you can find earthly metal that doesn`t streak with a color, but those are very rare.

 

And as photoracer18 said that sometimes way back in time they shaped stones to cannonballs, a preferably they shaped ironbearing stones as cannonballs because they have more mass to volume ratio and probably easier to shape completly spheric compared to non iron bearing rocks. So chances are that a spheric ironbearing rock is a very early cannonball, and chances are that a spheric metal ball is also a cannonball. 

oke i understand. I will look under a microscope at the depot of the natural history museum to see if i can indentity trademarks of earth or not earth based objects/crystals. It is how ever interesting what you siad about the streak test. I does give a grey streak, could it be a iron slag?



#16 stonesnuffer

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 12:26 PM

oke i understand. I will look under a microscope at the depot of the natural history museum to see if i can indentity trademarks of earth or not earth based objects/crystals. It is how ever interesting what you siad about the streak test. I does give a grey streak, could it be a iron slag?

i am sorry won't persuid any further. just keep it  at cannonball.



#17 Thorkill

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Posted 02 February 2020 - 02:04 PM

oke i understand. I will look under a microscope at the depot of the natural history museum to see if i can indentity trademarks of earth or not earth based objects/crystals. It is how ever interesting what you siad about the streak test. I does give a grey streak, could it be a iron slag?

Yes, if it streaks greyish black then it`s very probably that the metal is of earthly origins. Metal of extra terrestrial origins in general doesn`t streak any colors. But even for earthly metals there are exceptions that is they doesn`t streak any colors either, so the test is not 100% but a very good indication.

 

i am sorry won't persuid any further. just keep it  at cannonball.

Don`t be sorry it`s ok and a learning process. As beginners it`s easy to get carried away while we doesn`t know exactly what`s up. They are still very nice finds, i would love to have a genuine old cannonball on my shelf!


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#18 stonesnuffer

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 05:46 AM

Yes, if it streaks greyish black then it`s very probably that the metal is of earthly origins. Metal of extra terrestrial origins in general doesn`t streak any colors. But even for earthly metals there are exceptions that is they doesn`t streak any colors either, so the test is not 100% but a very good indication.

 

Don`t be sorry it`s ok and a learning process. As beginners it`s easy to get carried away while we doesn`t know exactly what`s up. They are still very nice finds, i would love to have a genuine old cannonball on my shelf!

oops made a mistake, the small sphere ways 712 grams and not 258. It is however still 5/5,5 cm wide. What is the density than??



#19 Thorkill

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 08:30 AM

oops made a mistake, the small sphere ways 712 grams and not 258. It is however still 5/5,5 cm wide. What is the density than??

Density is 10 g/cm3 if the numbers and calculation are correct. That makes it more dense than iron, wich make me suspect that maybe i used the formulas wrong or the numbers are maybe not correct.  

 

https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

https://www.calculat...ics/density.php

 

Edit: If i edit the radius to 3 instead of 2.5 i get a density of 7.9 g/cm3, wich makes it the density of iron. 


Edited by Thorkill, 03 February 2020 - 10:06 AM.


#20 stonesnuffer

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Posted 03 February 2020 - 01:39 PM

Density is 10 g/cm3 if the numbers and calculation are correct. That makes it more dense than iron, wich make me suspect that maybe i used the formulas wrong or the numbers are maybe not correct.  

 

https://www.google.c...chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

https://www.calculat...ics/density.php

 

Edit: If i edit the radius to 3 instead of 2.5 i get a density of 7.9 g/cm3, wich makes it the density of iron. 

yep, but why did i had to remove 0,5 cm of hematite and finding just a spec of metal. If it would bee a connonbal or some other iron sphere would you not wright away hit metal when you take a file to its surface. And the owner removed already alot of rust on the outside before hitting the hematite crust. Very strange object but i do love a mystery. I am going to the natural history museum depot thursday to examine both spheres en maybe cut the smaller one to see whats inside.



#21 stonesnuffer

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 08:55 AM

it turned out to be a canonnball the small sphere. Done test cut and reveiled cast iron. The big sphere is a strange one because of the crystalisation it has?? Some of the crystal can be seen from half a meter away in the sunlight. Does anyone know if very old canonnballs wher made of a crystaline metal?



#22 lee14

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:21 AM

By its very nature cast iron has a crystalline structure. It's never a Widmanstatten pattern. The size, orientation, and 'grain' size are determined by how the iron is cooled, and how it is worked. 

 

Lee


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#23 stonesnuffer

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:31 AM

By its very nature cast iron has a crystalline structure. It's never a Widmanstatten pattern. The size, orientation, and 'grain' size are determined by how the iron is cooled, and how it is worked. 

 

Lee

so if i can determen that the crystals have a willdman statten patterns i will be quite a discovery. Will look at it tonight.



#24 stonesnuffer

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:36 AM

so if i can determen that the crystals have a willdman statten patterns i will be quite a discovery. Will look at it tonight.

the big sphere ways 2321 grams and measures 8 cm wide. What would the density be??



#25 stonesnuffer

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:46 AM

here new photo big sphere, you can see the triangle shapes

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