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Zeiss 47-30-11-9901 Microscope

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#1 skeeloson

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 09:31 AM

Hello, All,

 

I need a little help, advice...

 

My kids are having a science fair in a couple of months.  We are going to do the invisible zoo, where we are going to look at hopefully small animals in pond water, etc.

 

Last night, I purchased a 'Zeiss 47-30-11-9901 Microscope' for $50 from ebay.  To be honest, I had 2 beers in me, so in retrospect, not sure if it was an ideal purchase.  Can anyone tell me anything about this microscope?  

 

https://www.ebay.com...872.m2749.l2649

 

Do I need to get anything else to make it function?  Also, a local person is selling the following for $30.  Not sure if it would be an upgrade or not.

 

CARL ZEISS MICROSCOPE BINOCULAR HEAD
-PERFECT CONDITION
-1CM 405
-47 30 16

 

Thanks

Scott

 

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#2 dusty99

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:30 AM

You got a good deal, but I can't see eyepieces or what objectives you have on the turret.  Can you post more pictures?

 

Here's one with eyepieces, objectives and the illumination lamp, for reference:

 

https://msusurplusst...y-46-72-59-9901


Edited by dusty99, 06 February 2020 - 10:32 AM.


#3 skeeloson

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:39 AM

Thanks.  The guys I purchased it from has a huge ebay store, and it looks like he took the pictures from another website.  Hopefully what I actually get comes with the eyepieces.  He hasn't response to my question yet on it.  I'll send more pics when I get the thing.

 

Thoughts on the additional head for $30?  I am having a hard time trying to figure out what the numbers mean "47 30 16" vs "47-30-11"

 

CARL ZEISS MICROSCOPE BINOCULAR HEAD
-PERFECT CONDITION
-1CM 405
-47 30 16

 

Thanks Dusty!



#4 Microscopy

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:39 AM

It's a 1970's era grey Zeiss STANDARD microscope, equiped to be used with incident light, but the incident light apparatus is missing, so it can't be used as such.

It's lacking the necessary transmission illumination components in the foot (and the condenser) as well, so it can't be used that way either.

 

It's possible to make a functioning transmitted light microscope out of it, but it won't be easy and anyway probably much more expensive than buying a transmitted light Standard ready for use.

 

In short: it's a nice paperweight... Well, that's not realy fear: it's a great microscope stand, lacking optics and illumination.

 

This is what a functioning transmitted light STANDARD (STANDARD 14, the one with the build-in 10W halogen bulb illuminator) of that era should look like:

 

vrijgesteld-Zeiss_Standard.jpg

 

Notice the transmission illuminator in the foot, with the curled ring being the field diaphragm. Also notice the condenser (underneath the stage) being present. 

Notice a help lens underneath the condenser. Your microscope has one as well but it's impossible to see what exactly it is. Zeiss at the time shipped some versions with a  help lens to provide even illuminated FOV at low magnifications, a phase plate offering phase with a 40x phase objective, also usuable as a dark field stop for lower magnifications, or both.


Edited by Microscopy, 06 February 2020 - 10:40 AM.

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#5 skeeloson

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:55 AM

Thanks Microscopy for the thorough write up.  If you dont mind me asking.  What would have been the function of this microscope when it was originally purchased?  It looks like the foot has a plug where the light would have went.

 

My hope is that he used a stock picture for it.  Its identical to the photo on SPW Industrial's website.

 

https://spwindustria...pping-estimator



#6 geovermont

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 11:41 AM

It does look like this is not going to be a functioning scope, and the advice to start over on another is spot on. Just like with telescopes, there are many options out there and you first need to define precisely what you are looking for. To do that, you need a certain amount of knowledge about microscopes. At the very least, read up on microscopes online--there are tons of resources. Figure out whether or not a low-power stereo microscope would do the job or if a compound microscope is needed. A stereo microscope is a more accessible device for kids and amateur naturalists. It can be awesome for viewing everything from coins and stamps to insects and plant parts. My wife and I have a stereo microscope and two compound microscopes and the stereo sees almost all of the use. If, on the other hand, the desire is to view individual cells, then you're going the compound route. Do you know someone who would let you use a couple different scopes and get a feel for differences? It would be like going to a star party and trying out different telescopes before buying one--always a good idea.

 

E-bay does have great deals out there, but look for the ones that say the scope is tested and working. You might pay a little more, but are more likely to end up with something useful.

 

If it's a first compound microscope and you're buying online, maybe stick to a monocular one rather than a binocular one as there's less to go wrong. With a low budget, I'd buy an old classic American Optical or Bausch and Lomb workhorse rather than something from the 80's to present. I do know that the high-end scopes of today are vastly better than the old ones from 60 years ago, but the more modern lower end school models that are available in droves are pieces of junk after they get some wear and tear on them. At any rate, make sure it has something like a 10 x eyepiece, a set of objective lenses (a 3.5x or 4x objective is great for low power views and will be used a lot more than a 100x oil immersion objective), a condenser, an iris diaphragm, and an illuminator. Later on, if the desire persists, you can get an awesome Zeiss or some such, after you know what you're doing.

 

If buying a stereomicroscope online, it's always a shot in the dark as to whether or not the two optical trains are properly collimated. If they are not, it will be a dog to use and unless you already know what you're doing, don't even think about trying to align the optics. A generous return policy would be very helpful in such a case.

 

One more thought--look over the pictures with a critical eye as people stick all sorts of random parts on a microscope in order to get it to sell. If the eyepieces or objectives are not the  same brand as the scope or look to be of different vintage, that would be a red flag to me. Yes, I've switched certain objectives and eyepieces around on my own scopes, and sometimes it's fine--but you need to know that it's OK. Other times it would seriously degrade the image.

 

It's fun to have a microscope or two around the house. Good luck!



#7 dusty99

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 12:41 PM

I didn't look at the ebay add before my reply above, but it's described as coming with eyepieces.  The round plate should be removable to fit a field diaphragm.  If it has eyepieces you could probably use a small LED flashlight with a diffuser (could just be a translucent bit of plastic) for illumination.  It looks like the condenser and at least one objective are present.


Edited by dusty99, 06 February 2020 - 03:06 PM.


#8 skeeloson

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 02:02 PM

Thanks everyone.  The clear lesson from this is dont drink a couple of beers and then go on eBay.

 

Anyways, I contacted the seller and told him to cancel the order if it didn't come with eyepieces.  If he decided to move ahead with it, then I will complain when it arrives.

 

Thanks for everyone help, etc.!


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#9 dusty99

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 03:08 PM

Nah, I've had some really interesting stuff show up at my door that way!

 

 

The clear lesson from this is dont drink a couple of beers and then go on eBay.



#10 Microscopy

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 01:45 PM

Thanks Microscopy for the thorough write up.  If you dont mind me asking.  What would have been the function of this microscope when it was originally purchased?  It looks like the foot has a plug where the light would have went.

 

My hope is that he used a stock picture for it.  Its identical to the photo on SPW Industrial's website.

 

https://spwindustria...pping-estimator

Microscopes with a so-called epi-illuminater are used to examine surfaces in reflected light, for example in materials sciences, but they're also used in (biological) fluorescence microscopy using reflected light.

If complete your microscope would have looked something like this: http://www.medwow.co...umber=154082105 . This is an example of a STANDARD equipped for epi-fluorescence.

 

It is possible to install the internals to accept an external illuminator (Illuminator 30, 60, 100) in the foot of your microscope, but it won't be easy, nor cheap.

 

This is a Standard 16 I own, equiped for transmitted light and phase contrast, but in general pretty much the same stand as yours (the picture I posted earlier is from a Standard 14):

P5160547-3.jpg

 

The foot looks like this (this is taken from the illuminator 100 manual):

Zeiss foot.jpg

 

For transmitted light, you need the field diaphragm - mirror assembly (legt in the picture, AFAIK there's basically only one version), the light tube (12 to 14 in the picture, there are several versions) and of course an Illuminator 30, 60, 100, equipped with the right collector (several versions) and bulb holder (several versions).

Not an easy task, and as Zeiss spare parts become more and more rare, not an inexpensive one either.

 

I agree with geovermont (#6): if you're a novice in microscopy, it's better to start with a more modest microscope.

 

Regarding the beer, see: https://www.reddit.c...en_youre_drunk/


Edited by Microscopy, 07 February 2020 - 01:53 PM.


#11 skeeloson

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:46 AM

I talked with the guy that sold me the scope, and he admitted that it did not include eyepieces.  He gave me a discount, which makes it $30 scope.  Based on what you wrote, I'll probably try to resell it, and maybe make a couple of dollars.

 

Anyways, I have continued to look, and came across this ( The seller is willing to negotiate, especially since its going to be used with my kids and scout den.  I know you say modest, but I have had some good luck on the astro side buying complete systems.  The seller is considering selling it for $220.  It has logs of bells and whistles.  I especially like the ability to take pics with it.

 

I do realize that I will have to adapt the power to work here.

 

Thoughts?

 

Scott



#12 skeeloson

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:52 PM

Hello,

 

I went an entirely different route and found a used Nikon E200 telescope with everything for a great price.  The seller had it for awhile, so I think he was happy to sell it.

 

I am sure its way overkill!

 

Scott



#13 dusty99

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Posted 16 February 2020 - 07:53 PM

The E200 is a good basic scope.  It’s common in many university undergrad labs but also good enough for some clinical use.  Did you get the F version with the field diaphragm?  Either way, a good scope for your purposes. Enjoy!




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