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Is Betelgeuse shedding a planetary nebula?

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#1 Gvs

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 03:24 PM

After reading about 1987A event.  It was clear that that star underwent a shedding event 20000 year ago.

 

Is it possible that what we are currently witnessing something similar with Betelgeuse?

 

Credence to this, are observations done during December last year. 

 

Detail study of red giants within M62, Hyades or Coma clusters, can most likely provide additional information (or other open clusters), as they should have red giants within them, which must be further along in this phase of their stellar evolution.

 

Further more, given that most planetary nebula don't always look the same, it would be wise to see the correlation between mass, intrinsic brightness of a SN event and the stellar remnant, in order to validate our current theories on these events are yard sticks in cosmology. 


Edited by Gvs, 14 February 2020 - 03:30 PM.

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#2 photoracer18

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:00 PM

SN1987A progenitor was a B3 blue super-giant, Betelgeuse is an M1/2 red super-giant. The internal thermonuclear processes are different. Planetary nebula are most likely to be shed by massive hot stars (O-A-B and WR stars) not massive cool stars. Not counting binary systems. While Betelgeuse is showing a lot of odd "surface" features its solar wind produces a lot of dust because the outer layer is so far from the fusion region in the interior that the external temperature of its extended atmosphere is relatively low. If we believe some of the observations from the pre-telescope era Betelgeuse passed from the yellow super-giant phase to the red super-giant phase within recorded history. That puts it still a long time from the possible supernova era. They still don't know what star-forming region it may have been ejected from. Its motion does not directly point to any of the groups near it in Orion unless its motion was changed by another event. A lot of speculation at this point. That is normally what you get. Before SN1987A they did not think a blue super-giant could produce a Type II supernova either.


Edited by photoracer18, 14 February 2020 - 04:01 PM.

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#3 descott12

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 04:41 PM

I believe that planetary nebula are the end point of stars closer to a solar mass (+/- a few ) after they pass through the red giant phase and are heading toward a white dwarf.

Betelgeuse is a red supergiant and should end as a supernova although I was reading that it has blown off so much material already that it may fall below the minimum mass to go supernova.



#4 Redbetter

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:13 PM

Unlikely, since supernovae don't leave behind planetary nebulae.  Betelgeuse is likely to end up as a Type II supernova because it is a very massive red supergiant.  A neutron star or black hole will be left behind (I believe neutron star is most likely based on Betelgeuse' estimated mass.)  Planetary nebula arise from less massive progenitors (0.8 to 8 solar masses) that proceed through the asymptotic giant branch.  They have high mass loss during the AGB phase, and in the final stages the planetary nebula detaches and the star becomes a white dwarf.  That is my understanding anyway.


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#5 Gvs

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Posted 22 February 2020 - 11:19 PM

Has anyone else been able to replicate these images?

 

Betelgeuse Comparison

 

 

Back in Jan 5th, there was no ring around the Alpha Orionis.  Now there seems to be a ring around it.

 

The process is described in the image details.



#6 viewer

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 07:17 AM

Has anyone else been able to replicate these images?

 

 

 

 

Back in Jan 5th, there was no ring around the Alpha Orionis.  Now there seems to be a ring around it.

 

The process is described in the image details.

How does it look if you have the same exposure time?



#7 Gvs

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 07:51 AM

It's been cloudy, have not had the chance to do the same exposure. Maybe next Friday.

If anyone has taken photos during this time frame, apply the method and compare it. Would like to rule out artifacts.

Though surrounding stars dont change much in appearance, and should use Bellatrix, Rigel and Antares for comparison.

Edited by Gvs, 23 February 2020 - 07:55 AM.


#8 Araguaia

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 08:57 AM

What Betelgeuse might do at some point is shed a pre-supernova shell or two, like Eta Carina.  Now that would look fantastic through a telescope, as it is much closer to us.  



#9 Gvs

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 10:16 AM

Took photos of two other targets that night.

 

These are the results of a similar process applied to them.

 

The inner ring inside the star is present in all. The outer ring is not.  Image without references are stars inside NGC2237 (12 Mon and HIP31149)

 

All images are magnified at 200x,

Attached Thumbnails

  • Hatysa Same process.JPG
  • NGC2237 similar process.JPG
  • Betelgeuse Comparison.JPG

Edited by Gvs, 23 February 2020 - 10:21 AM.


#10 Michael Covington

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Posted 23 February 2020 - 10:20 AM

I saw no emission lines (nebula lines) in the spectrum of Betelgeuse, which I took with a Star Analyser, AT65EDQ, and ASI120MM-S a couple of nights ago.  Analyzed with Rspec software.  The colorful spectrum at the bottom is synthesized from the graph.  Blue lines are marks indicating the absorption bands of titanium oxide, common in M-type stars.  Looking at AAVSO discussion leads me to believe there have been no recent major changes in the spectrum.

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20200221-Spectrum of Betelgeuse.png

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#11 39.1N84.5W

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 08:06 AM

No
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