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Svbony 102 doublet 5.5 refractor

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#1 Astro gator toe Joe

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 08:31 AM

Hi again fellow sky watchers.
So I know there is a forum on this already but it hasn't quite answered my question yet. The 102 5.5 by svbony looks like a great deal.
My situation like most others is I am new to this and have a wife that doesn't like it when I talk about buying more equipment.
I just bought a 420 dollar brand spanking new Cannon T7i/800D. And she bought me a 300 dollar celestron goto alt az scope for x-mas. So you see my budget is tight and I absolutely need to get the best refractor for AP for around 200 bucks if I I'm ever gonna be able to get a equatorial tracking mount.
So I hope someone in here can tell me from personal experience if I will be able to get decent beginner photos out of that scope. It seems like a nock off of Williams optics. I think maybe a cat knockoff.
Any info would help.
Thankyou ahead of time and clear skys my friends.

#2 sg6

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 09:58 AM

You need to supply a link to the item, and sort of quickly.

The only Svbony scope I can locate is half the specification you give - it is f/5.5 but 90mm aperture not 102mm.

It will not be a knowck off of the WO's, the image I see all they have done is have a similar white OTA and put gold colored fittings, might be a gold anodisation.

 

So it seems to be made to look like a WO in outward appearance.

 

Again from the reading it is an achro, and will show a reasonable degree of color on bright objects - stars for example.

I see they highlight the green AR coating.

 

There are a few 90/500's around. OK as a first scope to sweep the sky and become familiar with viewing, not really the scope for imaging. For that you do need a WO and that means $800+. For whatever reason the 90/500's never became popular, no idea why.

 

Cannot see one as described on the Svbony site but the 90/500 is, and is the only one on their site - SV48 ???

What is a "cat knockoff"  - the cat bit really loses me.

 

Can you image with it?

Well you can image with just about any scope, what alters is how well/good the end result is.

At $200 there really is no good refractor for AP, maybe search the used market. Even then I would say fortunate to get a 72ED. Then comes assorted other items - which you will need.

 

If the scope is 102 and f/5.5 then even more color on objects, really needs to be at f/8 or slower for acceptable levels. Aperture on imaging scopes is not the way to go, half reasonable idea for a visual scope, not so for imaging. Only say in case the thought process is 102 is better then 90 which is better then 80, 72, 60.

 

Not sure of used US market but here the Skywatcher 80ED is a popular first imaging scope and a fair number around so relatively low cost used. It is slower at f/7.5 and is therefore 600mm focal length. The slower and the ED means good color correction and (I may be wrong) it reads that a good few never bother with a flattener. Maybe the image formed is just flat enough for many.

 

No idea what the DSLR you have is, if it was for astrophotography then you may have been better just getting a used body. If for photography with occasional bolting to a scope then likely a good choice. DSLR's can be used for AP, but Canon didn't make/build them for AP.

 

US Clubs maybe find one.


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#3 LDW47

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 10:32 AM

Hi again fellow sky watchers.
So I know there is a forum on this already but it hasn't quite answered my question yet. The 102 5.5 by svbony looks like a great deal.
My situation like most others is I am new to this and have a wife that doesn't like it when I talk about buying more equipment.
I just bought a 420 dollar brand spanking new Cannon T7i/800D. And she bought me a 300 dollar celestron goto alt az scope for x-mas. So you see my budget is tight and I absolutely need to get the best refractor for AP for around 200 bucks if I I'm ever gonna be able to get a equatorial tracking mount.
So I hope someone in here can tell me from personal experience if I will be able to get decent beginner photos out of that scope. It seems like a nock off of Williams optics. I think maybe a cat knockoff.
Any info would help.
Thankyou ahead of time and clear skys my friends.

Until you can afford a better scope / mount maybe you should try AP with your new cam. from a good, stable but cheaper tripod for those great, less than 1 minute wide field shots, you won’t be disappointed but with that cam ...... ? They can be amazing !  Clear Skies !


Edited by LDW47, 20 February 2020 - 10:34 AM.

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#4 primetimestars

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:05 PM

Hello, I have an SV48 svbony, bought it in January. The prices I see in the market range from $250 usd to $380 usd for the same scope. It is a fairly ok first scope, it has a good look and feel, the double speed focuser is great, the weight light, nice design, and good glasses. However is not en ED nor an APO, so do not expect great things from it just fairly ok. There are no sv102 or larger nor triplets either. They seem to be working on that now. This telescope is the same telescope manufactured by zhiyong instruments in china and they also produce the aquila and a couple of other brand names. The sv48 comes with a nice aluminum case. Good luck and enjoy it.


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#5 SeattleScott

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Posted 20 February 2020 - 02:20 PM

With a fast achro may you would be limited to visual wide field observing or maybe narrrowband imaging.

Issues: field curvature. Typically to image at F5.5 you need a flattener. Or else the edges are a mess. Typically the flattener is made for the scope. Nobody is making a flattener for this scope. You might get lucky and find a reasonably compatible one. It might cost you as much as the scope.

CA: this scope will have fairly serious CA for visual. Horrendous CA for imaging. Narrowband imaging is your only option.

Of course you would need a suitable mount, which maybe you have, but typically costs $700-$1000 just to get something capable enough to toy around with imaging (and possibly frustrate you in the process). But you could at least get some short exposures and get in the game EAA style. Not sure what mount you got for $300 or if it is suitable for imaging with a 4” refractor.

Typically people need to invest about $3000-5000 to get an entry level setup for serious AP. You can do short exposure EAA for much less.

Scott
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#6 BDavis

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 03:45 PM

Rule #1 on Internet advice - never NEVER take advice from anyone that doesn't actually own the item in question.  Because all you'll get from them are things they read elsewhere, usually written by people who also have no actual experience with the item.  Such advice usually reflects the prejudices and brand loyalties of the user in question.

 

Chinese manufacturing is a perfect example.  The Chinese are now the worlds second finest machinists (Germans still best), due largely to the exporting of America's manufacturing capability there, and the opportunity it gave them to build plants from the ground up with CNC-based tooling.  It took them a few years to get the hang of it, but hell, our best engineers have spent decades teaching them how.  Most American goods are absolutely loaded with parts made in China.  You know, like Harleys.

 

That doesn't mean everything made there is made to high standards - just like it didn't mean everything made in America, Japan, Germany, etc can be relied on not to be junk.  And that's why you should flatly ignore Internet forum "experts" with freely offered opinions, and no real experience with the item you are considering buying.

 

It's reasonable to say "I would be concerned with CA because (A,B,C..).  It is not reasonable to say "It is", "It will be", etc without direct firsthand experience..

 

Lastly, advising a new hobbyist to go out and buy "APO" before they even try the hobby, is, frankly, poor advice.  Not everyone will stick with it long enough to justify the spending, and selling it later means losing about half the money or more, it would be wiser to start cheaply, accept less than perfect results, leaving yourself a growth direction, and prevent wasting thousands of dollars before you know whether the hobby is for you.

 

My starting rig, was a (used) CGEM mount, with a Nikon D800E and an f2.8 200mm gold ring lens I bought used on Craigslist for $450.  If I had discovered AP wasn't for me, there are literally millons of photographers willing to pay me just what I paid (or more) for the lens.  Good luck getting 60% of your purchase price with the high dollar spreadf

 

To the OP - the are a few very positive reports about the scope online, and I've only seen one negative.  Most of the owners reported very minimal CA, and sharp images.  A few mentioned needing spacers to achieve focus in some circumstances.  It has the potential to be a great deal, and I would suggest buying one from a seller that will give you a refund if you don't like it.  Fair to good chance of getting a winner on the cheap.  **** possible as well.


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#7 SeattleScott

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 06:42 PM

You don’t have to have experience using a F5.5 achro to know there will be far too much CA for any kind of serious AP. I don’t care what brand it is. Really doesn’t matter if it was made in Germany or China or Hogwarts or anywhere else.

As I said narrowband imaging could be an option. That would deal with the CA. There is still field curvature and what not, and I doubt anyone makes a flattener for it (since these are not really imaging scopes). Bottom line it is generally considered a very poor choice for imaging but narrowband EAA might be an option.

Scott
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#8 BDavis

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Posted 21 March 2020 - 11:00 PM

Interestingly enough, I went to the Svbony.com website, just to have a look see.  There are some definite bargains there.  Evidently, these have also been sold under several other brand names, and the manufacturer does unlabled OTAs for larger companies, which explains how they learned how, and got into the business.  Not sure what Companies, but its clear who they're looking to for "inspiration" in design.

 

Evidently, they are about to release an 80mm f/7 doublet with Japanese ED glass, the "SV-503".  Addressing the marketing of doublet scopes as APOs, they actually have a pretty good webpage on the subject, despite the translation issues between English and Chinese idiom, its still pretty understandable, and one of the better quick explanations of CA correction I've seen.  However, I suspect they did not intend to post the future price of the OTA a month before its put on sale (or maybe they did, who knows?)

 

Interesting, that they make a point that an ED doublet is not an APO, despite other reputable manufacturers labeling that way.  I appreciate honest approaches.

 

Given the many positive reviews of their stuff, most emphasizing the build quality, and many quite happy with the image quality of their non-ED achro doublet, one wonders what $399 is about to buy.  At that price, its either a great deal, or a great finder/guide scope, so I'll likely buy one to find out.  SVBony shows all the signs of a company trying to produce a quality competitive product.

 

I went ahead and bought a couple of their cameras, which should make dandy quider cams.  I also note their filter stuff is dirt cheap, and there are a bunch or reviews highly positive about their filters (for the money).  Interesting accessories.  Lots of eyepieces, some also with good reviews.

 

I think some of us have loads of spare cash, and aren't really worried about the value equation inherent in buying an expensive telescope.  As a retired gentleman on an  adequate if not lavish pension, I have to make every buck count. I'm more of a photographer doing Astro, than an Astronomer doing photography (well, when I started anyway), and I learned a long time ago, that a good lens was the one in your hand when the image was ready to be taken.  If Svbony satisfies the equation for $399, yeah man.  


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#9 SeattleScott

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Posted 22 March 2020 - 12:59 AM

A lot of people do AP with 80mm ED doublets. $399 would be a good price.

Scott

#10 barbarosa

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 01:55 PM

Would you tell us please exactly which Celestron scope and mount you have? I ask because as others already posted you may want to try what the call here electronically assisted something or other, and what others call video or live imaging. It is what I and many others do and the threshold requirement for scope and mount is much less expensive than for more traditional long exposure-intensive post processed imaging.

 

For this end of the imaging continuum you need a tracking mount, a suitable scope, a suitable camera, an adapter or two, a PC/laptop, some cable and some free software.

 

You have the camera, so you need an adapter, called a T ring, for the camera and a second adapter to to connect it to the scope.  Exactly what you need will depend on the scope.

 

For free software, SharpCap is about the best. It includes a feature called live stacking which adds images together to reduce noise and it aligns the images to counter and drift or field rotation (very helpful with an alt az mount). There is as with any software a bit of learning curve, but on many nights you can see live sessions from guys using SharpCap. Most of them are happy to answer questions or to demo how something is done. Visit NightSkiesNetwork.com, free to watch or join. if you join you can use the chat box and listen to the audio. If you want to join the audio feed you (for now at least) have to use a particular standalone browser, Chromium Portable. This not the current Chrome browser and I would not use it for anything other than NSN. With some other browsers you may get one way audio, that is you might be able to speak but not hear or vice versa. Anyway good place to see short exposure imaging and worth the bother with the funky browser.

 

About the scope. From my never dark suburb I get useable results with an 85 mm refractor at f/7 and f/5.6, but heck you would get something with 50mm and a camera. People here will be happy to asses it for any sort of imaging. 

 

If you decide to buy the 2“ SV48 Astronomy Telescope 90mm F5.5 Refractor and if color fringing (chromatic aberration) is greater than you can tolerate there are filters, such as those from Baader, that can control color fringing, but as with many filters they can be expensive relative to the cost of the scope.

 

So before you pull the trigger on the SV48 get some views the scope that you have and whether the mount that you have can work with the SV48.

 

Regardless you will be amazed at what you can do with a camera and a small scope compared with what your eye will see. 


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#11 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 02:21 PM

Interesting, that they make a point that an ED doublet is not an APO, despite other reputable manufacturers labeling that way.  I appreciate honest approaches.

 

 

Actually it's a self-serving approach. 

 

By the formal definition of an apochromat, a ED triplet is not an apochromat because while it has three color crossings, it only has one spherical null.  Some musings by Roland Christen.  I believe Astro-Physics made one ED-doublet close to the 30 years ago, the rest have been triplets. 

 

http://www.csun.edu/...and/musing.html

 

If one sticks to the original definition, a triplet is not an apo.  If one uses a modern definition that addresses overall color correction, then an ED doublet qualifies as an apo and in fact can have superior color correction to a triplet.

 

I have always like this Astromart post by Roland Christen of Astro-Physics called Achro, Semiapo, ED, Fluorite, etc.

 

https://astromart.co...orite-etc-54455

 

Roland, who was instrumental in developing the modern apo triplet calls FPL-51 doublets "apo doublets."

 

The main thing:  An 90mm F/5.5 achromat will have a chromatic blur that about 6 times the diameter of the Airy disk, a 90mm F/5.5 FPL-53 doublet will have a chromatic blur that is just about the size of Airy disk.  

 

In your first post your wrote: "Rule #1 on Internet advice - never NEVER take advice from anyone that doesn't actually own the item in question."

 

Do you have experience with the item in question?

 

In this case, a 90mm F/5.5 achromat is a known quantity, the chromatic aberration is a known quantity. One does not have to own a 12 inch F/3.5 Newtonian to understand that coma will be a large issue...  I have owned enough fast achromats to understand what the issues are here. 

 

Jon


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#12 eros312

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 09:10 PM

I have the Aquila 90mm f5.6 and use it for low power viewing. Works great, like an ST80 on steroids. If you want to get your feet wet in AP, it'll work. https://www.flickr.c...157679506462120 Far from terrible I'd say.


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#13 JasonT

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 01:08 AM

Got to say that little 90mm achro isn't so bad.  What Baader filter did you use with it?

 

 

I also look for this mysteries svbony 102 and couldn't find anything on it.  Does OP have a link to one?  What I did find, like bdavis, was the 80mm ED they are coming out with.

Very interesting scope for the entry level.  It looks just like the Astro-tech at80ed but svbony is saying it will have one element of spl-51 ed glass and another element of lanthanide glass,  were as the Astro-tech uses fk-61 ed glass.  They are both priced at $400 and come with the exact same accessories.  I'm really wondering if the glass will be different and if it is what svbony is saying it is will it be better than the Astro-tech offering?  Things are looking good in the budget range.  If OP has the time to wait, I would get either the Astro-tech (now) or the svbony offering when it comes out.



#14 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 01:24 PM

If OP has the time to wait, I would get either the Astro-tech (now) or the svbony offering when it comes out.

 

I'd buy the Astro-Tech now and I'd buy it later.  If something go wrong with the Svbony, good luck with getting it fixed.  And what the glasses really are, will you ever know?  

I trust Astronomics to give me the straight dope.

 

Jon


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#15 barbarosa

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 01:40 PM

 https://www.flickr.c...157679506462120 Far from terrible I'd say.

There was a time when I would have seen that image and said "Wow!" Now of course I have vastly greater experience. much better equipment, and nuanced and sophisticated understanding of astro-images as both art and science.

 

My honest opinion of the image with the obvious and expected defects is, and I make no apology, wow! wink.gif



#16 BDavis

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 03:03 PM

Actually it's a self-serving approach. 

Well gosh.  Who would have thought marketing materials would be self serving?

 

As to the rest, you confuse definition with method.  A properly constructed triplet may very well be apochromatic, however, the word simply means "reduces chromatic aberation".  In context, it's certainly accurate to refer to some doublets as apochromatic, though I'd say it's a matter of degree, and at what point a design achieves a significant enough reduction to warrant the label "apochomat or apochromatic".  Not all triplets merit the term, nor doublets with ED glass, coatings etc.  

 

But you've certainly proved my original point, and for that I thank you.  Talk is cheap, and until you've worked with a given scope, you can't assume it will be apochromatic (unless you believe the marketing).  Thus, it is wise to listen to those who actually have experience with a given item, instead of forum denizens who rely on things they've heard elsewhere, with their own spin added.

 

 

 

In your first post your wrote: "Rule #1 on Internet advice - never NEVER take advice from anyone that doesn't actually own the item in question."

 

Do you have experience with the item in question?

 

 

Obviously not, since at the time I posted, the telescope had not yet been offered for sale.  Further, since I offered no advice on the actual item (other than to seek advice from someone who has one) your comment has no logical congruity.  I have, on the other hand, operated and moderated a fair number of popular internet forums, so I probably do qualify as a subject matter expert on the topic of forum know-it-alls.


Edited by BDavis, 25 April 2020 - 03:04 PM.


#17 SeattleScott

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 03:34 PM

Yes for new models it can be hard to find users with experience with the particular item, so sometimes the best you can do is someone with a similar product.

Scott

#18 LDW47

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 04:59 PM

I'd buy the Astro-Tech now and I'd buy it later.  If something go wrong with the Svbony, good luck with getting it fixed.  And what the glasses really are, will you ever know?  

I trust Astronomics to give me the straight dope.

 

Jon

How do you know how good or bad their warranty / repair work is if needed ? From experience ? I would say experience using the words ‘ good luck ‘ !  Just curious !  Clear curious skize !  PS: I find today that most equipment ordered / bought on line is ‘ no questions asked ‘ when it comes to warranty / repair / exchange / refund, from my experience !



#19 erin

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 05:58 PM

How do you know how good or bad their warranty / repair work is if needed ? From experience ? I would say experience using the words ‘ good luck ‘ !  Just curious !  Clear curious skize !  PS: I find today that most equipment ordered / bought on line is ‘ no questions asked ‘ when it comes to warranty / repair / exchange / refund, from my experience !

I bought one of these scopes from the eBay seller and I would agree with Jon given my experience with them. Getting the scope was no hassle, but I did have an issue with the focuser and tried to exchange it. The company (based out of Hong Kong) made a point to do everything off of eBay’s radar. Pretty sketchy. They even went so far as to tell me that in order to do the exchange, I had to close my claim with eBay. That is majorly sketchy! If you do that, you lose your recourse and eBay guarantee.

 

Fortunately, someone sold a used (ie proven) one of those scopes on the classifieds and I scooped it up! Love the little scope grin.gif but I will never buy direct from them again.


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#20 LDW47

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 06:20 PM

I bought one of these scopes from the eBay seller and I would agree with Jon given my experience with them. Getting the scope was no hassle, but I did have an issue with the focuser and tried to exchange it. The company (based out of Hong Kong) made a point to do everything off of eBay’s radar. Pretty sketchy. They even went so far as to tell me that in order to do the exchange, I had to close my claim with eBay. That is majorly sketchy! If you do that, you lose your recourse and eBay guarantee.

 

Fortunately, someone sold a used (ie proven) one of those scopes on the classifieds and I scooped it up! Love the little scope grin.gif but I will never buy direct from them again.

So why didn’t you notify eBay and give them the particulars ?? I see they are still selling on eBay ? Are you saying that the Hong Kong company you bought from was the manufacturer or a shady third party ? If it was a third party you can’t paint them all with the same stick ! There are bad apples in every barrel ! Over the years I have bought some pretty expensive, rare items on the Bay from all over the world and have never had a problem ! Just lucky ? Clear third party skies !



#21 erin

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Posted 25 April 2020 - 06:59 PM

I let eBay know—I was in contact with them the whole time. It wasn’t a third party sale. 


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#22 RichA

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Posted 26 April 2020 - 07:29 PM

You need to supply a link to the item, and sort of quickly.

The only Svbony scope I can locate is half the specification you give - it is f/5.5 but 90mm aperture not 102mm.

It will not be a knowck off of the WO's, the image I see all they have done is have a similar white OTA and put gold colored fittings, might be a gold anodisation.

 

So it seems to be made to look like a WO in outward appearance.

 

Again from the reading it is an achro, and will show a reasonable degree of color on bright objects - stars for example.

I see they highlight the green AR coating.

 

There are a few 90/500's around. OK as a first scope to sweep the sky and become familiar with viewing, not really the scope for imaging. For that you do need a WO and that means $800+. For whatever reason the 90/500's never became popular, no idea why.

 

Cannot see one as described on the Svbony site but the 90/500 is, and is the only one on their site - SV48 ???

What is a "cat knockoff"  - the cat bit really loses me.

 

Can you image with it?

Well you can image with just about any scope, what alters is how well/good the end result is.

At $200 there really is no good refractor for AP, maybe search the used market. Even then I would say fortunate to get a 72ED. Then comes assorted other items - which you will need.

 

If the scope is 102 and f/5.5 then even more color on objects, really needs to be at f/8 or slower for acceptable levels. Aperture on imaging scopes is not the way to go, half reasonable idea for a visual scope, not so for imaging. Only say in case the thought process is 102 is better then 90 which is better then 80, 72, 60.

 

Not sure of used US market but here the Skywatcher 80ED is a popular first imaging scope and a fair number around so relatively low cost used. It is slower at f/7.5 and is therefore 600mm focal length. The slower and the ED means good color correction and (I may be wrong) it reads that a good few never bother with a flattener. Maybe the image formed is just flat enough for many.

 

No idea what the DSLR you have is, if it was for astrophotography then you may have been better just getting a used body. If for photography with occasional bolting to a scope then likely a good choice. DSLR's can be used for AP, but Canon didn't make/build them for AP.

 

US Clubs maybe find one.

Colour on any 4" achromat at f5-6 is going to be heavy, no way around it.  I've got three similar scopes.  Stars images in it will have bloated blue halos.



#23 BDavis

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Posted 24 May 2020 - 07:11 AM

Just to update this topic, I've been waiting to buy one of these 80mm's until I could see at least a few reviews.  I noticed this morning, that quite a few user-supplied images have shown up on SVBony's Facebook pages (along with other products).  Lots of new images produced with their SV503 and several of their (very inexpensive) cmos cameras as well.

 

http://www.facebook.com/groups/Svbony/




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