Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Purged EPs Do They Work ?

  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:33 PM

I am posting this in the equipment forum rather than the ep forum because it may get more, a broader exposure to more eyepiece experts knowledge, so here goes ! A few of the big names in eyepiece manufacture and sales offer some pretty expensive eps that have been purged with some sort of gas at quite a premium as a water / moisture proofing but not sure why as they aren’t being used out in rainy conditions where they will be saturated with H2O like say sonar systems, used for fishing or subsurface exploration, where weather conditions aren’t a controlling factor. Can the astronomers that have, I assume, studied their benefits, the pros and cons if you will prior to purchase, explain to me and I am sure others what type of seals including the material type that has been developed to maintain the seal in order to eliminate / prevent the sealed gas from escaping ? After all these eps are subjected to some pretty drastic temperature variants which as we all know cause a fair amount of expansion / contraction in these working seals, they have to insure the loss of gas for which you have paid a lot more when you buy the ep. And as well if a seal does let go what are the indicators that it has happened and what then, do you send it back and someone installs a new seal(s) and re-purges ? In marine electronics the screen starts to fog up drastically as the main indicator of the loss of Nitrogen when the heat of the day builds up in the unit but I have never heard of eps regularly fogging up except maybe in high humidity or heavy icy frost where most probably won’t be out observing anyway / very often ! What type and length of warranty do the sellers give the purging or should I say the loss of purging, if in fact it can be detected, is it a lifetime guarantee ? I mean there has to be an answer after all owners, the purchasers have paid for it ! Is it possible many are using these premiums and the gas has long escaped and no one even knows it ? Before I buy them, the thoughts are there, some things have to be answered ! Clear Skies and heres hoping for some great replies to help myself and other potential buyers understand !   PS:  I know its been a problem in some of the big brand names in marine sonar equipment for at least 25-30 years, I mean I have been involved with that problem for that long !


Edited by LDW47, 21 February 2020 - 01:11 PM.

  • markb likes this

#2 markb

markb

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 544
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2006
  • Loc: Long Island; in transition to Arizona

Posted 21 February 2020 - 12:55 PM

There is a parallel thread just going, and I'm with the mostly-useless-feature for advertising group.

 

One of the brands has had enough postings about dust in very expensive eps that I would never consider them.

 

I also am concerned about long term loss of purging gas, to the extent it does anything of note. I assume the biggest draw is dryness, followed by airless conditions to prevent mold growth.

 

I am sure there are some folks with big temperature and humidity swings that may benefit, but those temperature swings may impair gas tightness too.

 

As to waterproofing I would view it as a minor plus, but astronomy and clouds don't mix. I view water as a risk in transport but minor. Very.

 

If 'Uncle Al' doesn't use it on Televue I'm not seeing an overriding concern to address.

 

I have never had an issue with TV, nor with Baader, APM  or KK, all were fairly valued, well made, excellent performers. I stopped looking elsewhere long ago. I'll toss Vixen in there as well on selected products. None were purged or sealed to my knowledge. Results spoke for themselves, not ad 'features'.



#3 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:10 PM

There is a parallel thread just going, and I'm with the mostly-useless-feature for advertising group.

 

One of the brands has had enough postings about dust in very expensive eps that I would never consider them.

 

I also am concerned about long term loss of purging gas, to the extent it does anything of note. I assume the biggest draw is dryness, followed by airless conditions to prevent mold growth.

 

I am sure there are some folks with big temperature and humidity swings that may benefit, but those temperature swings may impair gas tightness too.

 

As to waterproofing I would view it as a minor plus, but astronomy and clouds don't mix. I view water as a risk in transport but minor. Very.

 

If 'Uncle Al' doesn't use it on Televue I'm not seeing an overriding concern to address.

 

I have never had an issue with TV, nor with Baader, APM  or KK, all were fairly valued, well made, excellent performers. I stopped looking elsewhere long ago. I'll toss Vixen in there as well on selected products. None were purged or sealed to my knowledge. Results spoke for themselves, not ad 'features'.

One of my ?’s for quite a while is, in all of the literature, I assume there is literature, do the sellers or whom ever fully explain to the potential buyers / users all of the virtues, the pros and cons, the reasons for astronomers buying these ? If not they should ! Its important if you are trying to sell something like these !



#4 havasman

havasman

    Voyager 1

  • ****-
  • Posts: 10,446
  • Joined: 04 Aug 2013
  • Loc: Dallas, Texas

Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:17 PM

Do they work?

 

Yes, of course they work. As eyepieces. Which is good. If they happen to need cleaning then they can be cleaned. Like any other eyepiece.

 

But do they make good ballast for a fish trap or other underwater device? Can't say as that's much of a concern. They're eyepieces. But if the owner has sense enough to register them with ES they are covered by the best-in-class warranty so you could chuck 'em in the pond if you want I guess. Then you'll know. But the value of that new knowledge might not outweigh the risks involved.



#5 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:20 PM

There is a parallel thread just going, and I'm with the mostly-useless-feature for advertising group.

 

One of the brands has had enough postings about dust in very expensive eps that I would never consider them.

 

I also am concerned about long term loss of purging gas, to the extent it does anything of note. I assume the biggest draw is dryness, followed by airless conditions to prevent mold growth.

 

I am sure there are some folks with big temperature and humidity swings that may benefit, but those temperature swings may impair gas tightness too.

 

As to waterproofing I would view it as a minor plus, but astronomy and clouds don't mix. I view water as a risk in transport but minor. Very.

 

If 'Uncle Al' doesn't use it on Televue I'm not seeing an overriding concern to address.

 

I have never had an issue with TV, nor with Baader, APM  or KK, all were fairly valued, well made, excellent performers. I stopped looking elsewhere long ago. I'll toss Vixen in there as well on selected products. None were purged or sealed to my knowledge. Results spoke for themselves, not ad 'features'.

The reason I introduced this thread is that the other deals with a specific brand, I assume there are others, mine also expands the issue by I think providing more details, more questions ! If not then sorry for the overlap and the powers that be can can take it down, never to be seen again, lol !  Clear Skies to all !



#6 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,725
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:21 PM

I, for one, like the waterproof feature of my ES eyepieces. Not because I'm worried about dew, but because I don't have to worry about cleaning fluid seeping into them. And I have actually accidentally dropped one of them in mud and cleaning it was as simple as holding it under the tap and running some lukewarm water over it. 

 

I think it's a nice and convenient feature. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark 


  • wrnchhead likes this

#7 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:23 PM

Do they work?

 

Yes, of course they work. As eyepieces. Which is good. If they happen to need cleaning then they can be cleaned. Like any other eyepiece.

 

But do they make good ballast for a fish trap or other underwater device? Can't say as that's much of a concern. They're eyepieces. But if the owner has sense enough to register them with ES they are covered by the best-in-class warranty so you could chuck 'em in the pond if you want I guess. Then you'll know. But the value of that new knowledge might not outweigh the risks involved.

Great answer, I think and as long as you don’t mind paying more for what ! Thanx for your expertise though !  And Clear Skies be with you !



#8 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 21 February 2020 - 01:27 PM

I, for one, like the waterproof feature of my ES eyepieces. Not because I'm worried about dew, but because I don't have to worry about cleaning fluid seeping into them. And I have actually accidentally dropped one of them in mud and cleaning it was as simple as holding it under the tap and running some lukewarm water over it. 

 

I think it's a nice and convenient feature. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark 

But you haven’t answered the big question of, how do you know the purging is still there, it hasn’t leaked out through ineffective / defective seals ? Do you even care or just assume its still there ? I hope you understand what I am getting at as with many others ie are you getting what you think you paid for ?



#9 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,725
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 21 February 2020 - 02:54 PM

But you haven’t answered the big question of, how do you know the purging is still there, it hasn’t leaked out through ineffective / defective seals ? Do you even care or just assume its still there ? I hope you understand what I am getting at as with many others ie are you getting what you think you paid for ?

I just assume it's still there. I mean, how can I check? Yeah, I can't. I can confirm that the waterproofing is the real deal, though. 

 

And about getting what I paid for: These eyepieces are AMAZINGLY GOOD and they're about half the cost of an equivalent Televue eyepiece, so I do think I'm getting what I'm paying for. The Argon filling and waterproofing are essentially thrown in for free, as far as I'm concerned. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


  • turtle86 and Spacedude4040 like this

#10 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 21 February 2020 - 07:06 PM

I just assume it's still there. I mean, how can I check? Yeah, I can't. I can confirm that the waterproofing is the real deal, though. 

 

And about getting what I paid for: These eyepieces are AMAZINGLY GOOD and they're about half the cost of an equivalent Televue eyepiece, so I do think I'm getting what I'm paying for. The Argon filling and waterproofing are essentially thrown in for free, as far as I'm concerned. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

It isn’t just thrown in for free, check the price of Argon gas, even for that small amount at their inflated price ! Someone has to pay for it ? And Nitrogen isn’t too far behind !  Clear Skies !


Edited by LDW47, 21 February 2020 - 07:08 PM.


#11 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,725
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 22 February 2020 - 09:43 AM

It isn’t just thrown in for free, check the price of Argon gas, even for that small amount at their inflated price ! Someone has to pay for it ? And Nitrogen isn’t too far behind !  Clear Skies !

As far as I'm concerned, it IS thrown in for free. I don't really care whether it's there or not. I get Televue-equivalent (or very nearly so) eyepieces for half the price. How is that alone not an awesome deal? I would have bought the ES eyepieces, even if they weren't waterproof or nitrogen filled, even at the current asking price, so for me, the AR or N filling and waterproofing ARE thrown in for free. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


  • turtle86 and rockethead26 like this

#12 LDW47

LDW47

    Gemini

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 3,185
  • Joined: 04 Mar 2012
  • Loc: North Bay,Ontario,Canada

Posted 22 February 2020 - 10:00 AM

As far as I'm concerned, it IS thrown in for free. I don't really care whether it's there or not. I get Televue-equivalent (or very nearly so) eyepieces for half the price. How is that alone not an awesome deal? I would have bought the ES eyepieces, even if they weren't waterproof or nitrogen filled, even at the current asking price, so for me, the AR or N filling and waterproofing ARE thrown in for free. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

One way of looking at it, just ignore the issue, the sales pitch ! Maybe thats the way to do it, lol !  And Clear Skies to you !


Edited by LDW47, 22 February 2020 - 10:00 AM.

  • Astrojensen likes this

#13 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    Voyager 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 12,725
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 22 February 2020 - 10:09 AM

One way of looking at it, just ignore the issue, the sales pitch ! Maybe thats the way to do it, lol !  And Clear Skies to you !

Less worry = more bliss. 

 

 

Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


  • LDW47 likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics