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Methyl Orange: Is this even a safe solar filter?

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16 replies to this topic

#1 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 08:40 AM

so, from the same guy who had this idea of a new kind of telescope  with two objectives and a single eyepiece, also claimed to have achieve Hydrogen Alpha quality solar photography by using a toxic chemical known as Methyl Orange and then dichroic filter elements.

I have tried to scour the entire internet and i find no answer whatsoever if other more experienced solar astronomers have used that setup.


this guy has been spamming around on the local philippine astronomy community and no one is criticizing his work, which, knowing he is a graphic designer/artist, there exists a possibility he is just ripping off images from the internet and passing it off as his own, which is very very unethical.


anyways here are the images he sent:

His "Methyl Orange Filter" in between 2 compact discs

87148242_10157867680528911_5580268097920565248_o.jpg
 

What he claims as what he got off the said setup:
80650565_10157696208303911_8357362864540876800_o.jpg



#2 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:21 AM

I seriously doubt his Solar Shots are from his setup.



#3 happylimpet

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:28 AM

A full aperture filter made of CDs? That would be like vomiting into your telescope.


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#4 AposkiiLola

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:48 AM

While it is entirely possible to build a "Compound telescope" using two objective lenses(the second lens operating as a barlow; but its function is at double its length placement making it twice as long)

 

You will never ever get hydrogen alpha images out of a compact disc filter,  nor a single layer of chemical dye.  This ABSOLUTLEY requires multiple bandpass filter and intereference filter elements which can end up costing thousands of dollars more than a dedicated solar scope offered by daystar, coronado, or lunt.

 

While he does have a solar image there,   everyone would permanently damage their eyesight and vision should they place an eyepiece in there use it visually.

 

I say this as respectfully as possible;  Do not follow anything THAT person is doing.


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#5 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:57 AM

While it is entirely possible to build a "Compound telescope" using two objective lenses(the second lens operating as a barlow; but its function is at double its length placement making it twice as long)

 

You will never ever get hydrogen alpha images out of a compact disc filter,  nor a single layer of chemical dye.  This ABSOLUTLEY requires multiple bandpass filter and intereference filter elements which can end up costing thousands of dollars more than a dedicated solar scope offered by daystar, coronado, or lunt.

 

While he does have a solar image there,   everyone would permanently damage their eyesight and vision should they place an eyepiece in there use it visually.

 

I say this as respectfully as possible;  Do not follow anything THAT person is doing.

Sadly i was banned from the Astrophotography Philippines webpage by a Canadian-Filipino Page admin, merely because I questioned the merits of this guy, and i get accused of "Micro aggressions".

this guy is going after popularity.


Now on my mere suspicion that he is plagiarizing the work of other astronomers as his own, Google Reverse image lookup does not seem to be able to detect anything.

Remember this guy is a Graphic artist by trade. Any idea how to see and verify if he is plagiarizing other people's work even after he played around with photoshop?

 



#6 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:02 AM

A full aperture filter made of CDs? That would be like vomiting into your telescope.

and yet not one single accomplished Filipino astronomer even questions him
he has taken certain Filipino Astro-related facebook pages by storm.


Imagine him teaching newbies to use a 5x barlow on a 60mm chinese made frac(no hate on fracs from china)
I was like, wait. whut?



#7 AposkiiLola

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:04 AM

Sadly i was banned from the Astrophotography Philippines webpage by a Canadian-Filipino Page admin, merely because I questioned the merits of this guy, and i get accused of "Micro aggressions".

this guy is going after popularity.


Now on my mere suspicion that he is plagiarizing the work of other astronomers as his own, Google Reverse image lookup does not seem to be able to detect anything.

Remember this guy is a Graphic artist by trade. Any idea how to see and verify if he is plagiarizing other people's work even after he played around with photoshop?

 

Dont even waste your time trying to go after the person, you gain nothing for it and revenge will get you nowhere. Especially If the admin of that server was nieve enough to not understand how unsafe that was, and allow the user to continue posting. 

 

It is possible to get images of the sun through a compact disc using a digital camera, but the image quality is garbage and nothing to brag over.  

 

The methyl orange is dye ,  a simple coloring agent and food coloring would achieve the same result.

 

Just move on with your life and only follow people that have real equipment.


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#8 coopman

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:07 AM

I would not risk an eye to try that.  I put my total trust in Baader solar film.


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#9 AposkiiLola

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:10 AM



Imagine him teaching newbies to use a 5x barlow on a 60mm chinese made frac(no hate on fracs from china)
I was like, wait. whut?

There is nothing wrong with a chinese made telescope by the way, and most modern optics come from there.  Quality is determined by the amount of money that goes into manufacturing it, not by the country or people who build it.  They could build you an objective lens made from pure sapphire and diamonds if you had the money to pay for it.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Solar_Telescope


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#10 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:14 AM

Dont even waste your time trying to go after the person, you gain nothing for it and revenge will get you nowhere. Especially If the admin of that server was nieve enough to not understand how unsafe that was, and allow the user to continue posting. 

 

It is possible to get images of the sun through a compact disc using a digital camera, but the image quality is garbage and nothing to brag over.  

 

The methyl orange is dye ,  a simple coloring agent and food coloring would achieve the same result.

 

Just move on with your life and only follow people that have real equipment.

the fun part is that he is teaching newbies all sort of wrong info and knowledge and people accept it as fact. this solar filter being the most dangerous one yet.

Now, is this solar photo of his even remotely achievable with the setup he claims he has?
80461944_10157696721123911_431834759472087040_o.jpg

Well i am not the kind of guy that seeks revenge, i want people to learn from you guys, who know more than I do, which well, comes from guys like you in this page anyways, as well as share knowledge that is safe, accurate and factual.


Please do know I and a few others appreciate all of you for your replies and guidance!



#11 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:16 AM

There is nothing wrong with a chinese made telescope by the way, and most modern optics come from there.  Quality is determined by the amount of money that goes into manufacturing it, not by the country or people who build it.  They could build you an objective lens made from pure sapphire and diamonds if you had the money to pay for it.

 

https://en.wikipedia...Solar_Telescope

the laughable thing really was this guy teaching newbies to use a 5x barlow on 6mm ortho on a small F11 60mm frac.
 



#12 AposkiiLola

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:30 AM

Theoretically you could use a 5x barlow to project into a 6mm eyepiece and onto a piece of paper,  but the magnification would be so high that you would not be able to achieve focus and you certainly would not get the picture that you have shown there..  A simple calculation for the magnification of a 1000mm telescope multiplied by 5x barlow   divided by a 6mm eyepeice     (    5000mm   / 6mm = 833x. ) Not even possible ona  100mm objective telescope.

 

The image provided, is possible yes but it would require other filters and not the compact disc shown which clearly has had the mylar peeled off of its plastic.  If you look at the image of his "filter"  it is entirely clear.   The transmission would be so high that it would burn out the camera sensor.

 

Again,  you are wasting your time trying to investigate this.  Nothing will transpire out of your persistence to prove him wrong, and nothing you say to him will punch a hole in his practice. If the admins choose to let him be stupid, then they are equally stupid.

Untitled.jpg


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#13 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:54 AM

well I am trying to get him to try register and discuss this "invention" of his.

he still refused



#14 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:57 AM

Theoretically you could use a 5x barlow to project into a 6mm eyepiece and onto a piece of paper,  but the magnification would be so high that you would not be able to achieve focus and you certainly would not get the picture that you have shown there..  A simple calculation for the magnification of a 1000mm telescope multiplied by 5x barlow   divided by a 6mm eyepeice     (    5000mm   / 6mm = 833x. ) Not even possible ona  100mm objective telescope.

 

The image provided, is possible yes but it would require other filters and not the compact disc shown which clearly has had the mylar peeled off of its plastic.  If you look at the image of his "filter"  it is entirely clear.   The transmission would be so high that it would burn out the camera sensor.

 

Again,  you are wasting your time trying to investigate this.  Nothing will transpire out of your persistence to prove him wrong, and nothing you say to him will punch a hole in his practice. If the admins choose to let him be stupid, then they are equally stupid.

attachicon.gifUntitled.jpg

agreed, its just he is misinforming the entire Philippine community with incorrect info, and people applauding him.

its just a matter of time till someone here gets their eye toasted.



#15 Don W

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:43 AM

If he does register here and tries to 'promote' his system, he will be shut down in a hurry. We do not allow potentially dangerous systems to be discussed on Cloudy Nights. Please don't invite him!

 

Don W

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#16 nakazatoGTR

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 06:00 PM

@Don

The fact he refuses to join is more than proof enough for me! 😂😂😂

#17 Michael Covington

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Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:55 PM

In general, dyes transmit way too much infrared.  I am not aware of any safe solar filter made with dye.  




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