Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Once our Sun is dead and cold...what will remain?

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1 Rich56

Rich56

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 131
  • Joined: 02 Jun 2012

Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:48 AM

Yes, I know our Sun will eventually bloat out and eventually shrink to a white dwarf...but what will be left after it finally loses all of it's heat?

 

Will it just be a ball of hard carbon? Or a ball of cold gas?


  • spereira likes this

#2 pyrasanth

pyrasanth

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,500
  • Joined: 08 Jan 2016

Posted 24 February 2020 - 09:59 AM

Probably will be a white dwarf made of iron & some carbon. The gas would probably get pushed out like most beautiful planetary nebula.


Edited by pyrasanth, 24 February 2020 - 10:00 AM.


#3 ascii

ascii

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,244
  • Joined: 04 Jun 2016
  • Loc: Orlando, FL, USA Approximately 28.5ºN,81.5ºW

Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:22 AM

Eventually, it should become a black dwarf.  White dwarfs are so long lived that the universe is not yet old enough to have any black dwarfs.

 

https://en.m.wikiped...iki/Black_dwarf
 



#4 sg6

sg6

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,230
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2010
  • Loc: Norfolk, UK.

Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:38 AM

Sun will shed a lot of mass as a planetary nebula.

Remains will be a white dwarf, slowly cooling. The white dwarf being by present ideas mainly Carbon and Oxygen.

The sun would need to be bigger to get to elements heavier and would form a supernova.

 

Inner planets get fried, including Earth. mrevil.gif

 

With the planetary nebula gasses being expelled then the central gravity would change so whatever planets are left would changed orbits.

 

Planets would change I guess, the effective explosion from the sun would I guess add heat/energy to Jupiter and Saturn and what the effect of the heat on a gas giant would be is probably a point of debate. Would seem to make sense that they lose gas/material.


  • Tyson M likes this

#5 Jim Davis

Jim Davis

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2014
  • Loc: Lewisberry, PA

Posted 24 February 2020 - 10:39 AM

Probably will be a white dwarf made of iron & some carbon. The gas would probably get pushed out like most beautiful planetary nebula.

The Sun is too small to fuse Iron. It will end up a carbon-oxygen white dwarf. It will eventually cool and go black.


  • bobzeq25 and Tyson M like this

#6 Dave Mitsky

Dave Mitsky

    ISS

  • *****
  • Moderators
  • Posts: 88,668
  • Joined: 08 Apr 2002
  • Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth

Posted 24 February 2020 - 01:20 PM

Anyway, if we say, arbitrarily, that at 5 K a white dwarf becomes a black dwarf, then it’ll take at least 10^15 years for one to form.

 

https://www.universe...96/black-dwarf/



#7 Codbear

Codbear

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 895
  • Joined: 23 Jan 2016
  • Loc: Novato, CA

Posted 24 February 2020 - 01:28 PM

Pluto becomes habitable and since it's been declared a dwarf planet then all the intelligent life will be...grin.gif


  • okiestarman56 likes this

#8 jaraxx

jaraxx

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Joined: 14 Sep 2017

Posted 24 February 2020 - 07:46 PM

It will be a white dwarf (mostly C and O) which supposedly will cool to a "black" dwarf as all the heat dissipates. No one knows this for sure, because theoretically the Universe isn't old enough for a white dwarf to loose enough heat to go cold - and I'm not sure how you would detect such a thing even if it had. Detection of "brown dwarfs" has been hard enough.

(Pure speculation - and I'm not planning on attending the event.)



#9 pyrasanth

pyrasanth

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,500
  • Joined: 08 Jan 2016

Posted 25 February 2020 - 03:31 AM

It will be a white dwarf (mostly C and O) which supposedly will cool to a "black" dwarf as all the heat dissipates. No one knows this for sure, because theoretically the Universe isn't old enough for a white dwarf to loose enough heat to go cold - and I'm not sure how you would detect such a thing even if it had. Detection of "brown dwarfs" has been hard enough.

(Pure speculation - and I'm not planning on attending the event.)

They will be easy to detect. McDonald's would have colonised everything by then- just look for the golden arches!


  • Pess and okiestarman56 like this

#10 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 16,783
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:43 AM

It can be said nothing will remain if there's no one around to observe it. I think, anyway. I never knew anything to exist without somehow seeing or otherwise sensing it, and even then not entirely sure we can believe our lying eyes or anything of what we hear. :)

Edited by Asbytec, 26 February 2020 - 08:47 AM.


#11 Jim Davis

Jim Davis

    Skylab

  • *****
  • Posts: 4,210
  • Joined: 05 Jul 2014
  • Loc: Lewisberry, PA

Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:18 AM

It can be said nothing will remain if there's no one around to observe it. I think, anyway. I never knew anything to exist without somehow seeing or otherwise sensing it, and even then not entirely sure we can believe our lying eyes or anything of what we hear. smile.gif

So, the world stops existing while you're asleep?


  • Asbytec and Pess like this

#12 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 16,783
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:31 AM

So, the world stops existing while you're asleep?

I knew there'd be a tough question to answer. :) 



#13 DaveC2042

DaveC2042

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 237
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2018
  • Loc: Sydney, Australia

Posted 26 February 2020 - 04:53 PM

So, the world stops existing while you're asleep?


As the old QM conundrum asks, is the moon still there when no one is looking at it?

#14 ColoHank

ColoHank

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,140
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2007
  • Loc: western Colorado

Posted 26 February 2020 - 06:19 PM

As the old QM conundrum asks, is the moon still there when no one is looking at it?

Until we put satellites in orbit around the Moon and were able to remotely observe it, the side that faces away from Earth didn't exist.  



#15 Mister T

Mister T

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,810
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2008
  • Loc: Upstate NY

Posted 28 February 2020 - 07:05 AM

Until we put satellites in orbit around the Moon and were able to remotely observe it, the side that faces away from Earth didn't exist.  

Shh!!! you get the flat earthers all riled up!



#16 Jeff B1

Jeff B1

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,642
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014
  • Loc: South Central Florida

Posted 28 February 2020 - 09:37 AM

Shh!!! you get the flat earthers all riled up!

Hum, I believe in a flat Mars too.



#17 SillySMS

SillySMS

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 07 Aug 2019
  • Loc: Austin, TX

Posted 28 February 2020 - 10:18 AM

Based on my understanding of QM, stuff that exists continues to exist; the dark side of the Moon exists even if you're not looking at it.

 

What you're uncertain of is the state of the particle/wavicle until it's been observed, and just about anything can be an observer. An electron can be observed by the nucleus it's bound to, a stray passing photon, etc. The atoms that make up a rock are rather constantly observing the other atoms in the rock, so there's not much time for weird quantum shenanigans to happen until probabilistic waveforms collapse to a state.



#18 Jarad

Jarad

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,420
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2003
  • Loc: Atlanta, GA

Posted 28 February 2020 - 03:11 PM

The universe is just like baby Groot at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy - it only dances when Drax isn't looking: https://www.youtube....h?v=6dQK8TCTuTY

 

Jarad



#19 ColoHank

ColoHank

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,140
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2007
  • Loc: western Colorado

Posted 28 February 2020 - 03:42 PM

Shh!!! you get the flat earthers all riled up!


My ambitions extend only so far as riling up the flat mooners.
  • Dave Mitsky and Jim_V like this

#20 Jeff B1

Jeff B1

    Mercury-Atlas

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,642
  • Joined: 07 Mar 2014
  • Loc: South Central Florida

Posted 28 February 2020 - 05:31 PM

My ambitions extend only so far as riling up the flat mooners.

Of Moonies :)



#21 Jim_V

Jim_V

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,694
  • Joined: 20 Jan 2018
  • Loc: Iron Range Lake Ontario

Posted 28 February 2020 - 09:13 PM

My ambitions extend only so far as riling up the flat mooners.

Oh Please no....bangbang.gif



#22 BillP

BillP

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 19,213
  • Joined: 26 Nov 2006
  • Loc: Spotsylvania, VA

Posted 28 February 2020 - 10:15 PM

So, the world stops existing while you're asleep?

Only if everybody is asleep.  As long as someone is looking at it from somewhere it continues to exist.  Why it's important that not everyone goes to sleep at once.  Someone always needs to keep watch.  That's the whole purpose of posting sentries, to make sure everything stays in existence while others sleep!  Now you know why NASA has put up spacecraft like the LRO and MRO.  They are automated sentries so those objects don't go in and out of existence and someone at NASA is always looking at the data stream from them.  Why don't you know any of this!!! lol.gif


Edited by BillP, 28 February 2020 - 10:19 PM.

  • llanitedave likes this

#23 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,947
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:20 PM

It can be said nothing will remain if there's no one around to observe it. I think, anyway. I never knew anything to exist without somehow seeing or otherwise sensing it, and even then not entirely sure we can believe our lying eyes or anything of what we hear. smile.gif

Pretty certain we're alone in the universe?  I'm not.  I do doubt they have any reason to visit.  <smile>



#24 Asbytec

Asbytec

    Guy in a furry hat

  • *****
  • Posts: 16,783
  • Joined: 08 Aug 2007
  • Loc: Pampanga, PI

Posted 29 February 2020 - 02:30 PM

Pretty certain we're alone in the universe?  I'm not.  I do doubt they have any reason to visit.  <smile>

I'm pretty certain there is life out there, and probably intelligent life on distant worlds...even though I have not seen them. However, I am still not sure whether the cat is alive or not, or whether a falling tree makes a sound unheard. (Where is the pulling your hair out emoticon?) :lol:  



#25 Pess

Pess

    (Title)

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,937
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Toledo, Ohio

Posted 01 March 2020 - 09:16 AM

Shh!!! you get the flat earthers all riled up!

 

Pesse (These types of comments push me right over the edge!) Mist  ;)




CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics