Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

The best travel telescope for a color Orion Nebula for under $340 and fit car trunk space of 33" wide x 15" deep

  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#1 Vietbear

Vietbear

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 26 Feb 2020
  • Loc: Louisiana

Posted 26 February 2020 - 06:52 PM

Good afternoon CN members. 

 

I've read many posts for telescopes under $300 but would like your opinions on what I need for the best views of Orion Nebula with color.

 

I came across an Amazon page with a customer's image review of a colorful M42 from the Meade 80mm Adventure scope but don't know what EP I would need to get a colorful image like the review pic?

 

https://www.amazon.c...customerReviews

 

I recently went to a star party at the Griffith Observatory in LA.  My first viewing was a colorful Orion Nebula through a Meade LX90 and I was hooked.  So beautiful.

 

Since then,  I wanted to buy a Sky-Watcher 6" DOB,  Starblast 6,  or AWB but don't have enough room for a stool too to put in the car's trunk;  and I would like to keep the setup simple with a stand being provided.  I would consider Used but haven't found anything on ebay, CN classfied or on New Orleans craigslist for under $340 for a total setup.

 

If you have a link for used or new,  I would like to know.

I am strongly considering buying a new Meade Infinity 102 for $188 from walmart for their easy return policy.
Is the new Meade StarPro AZ 102 alot better for $239?
And with your recommendations,  what eyepieces would I need?

 

I plan to go camping in Yosemite and Yellowstone in a couple of months and have 1/3 of the car's trunk space available for a telescope.

Viet



#2 Augustus

Augustus

    Fly Me To The Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,949
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2015
  • Loc: Stamford, Connecticut

Posted 26 February 2020 - 06:55 PM

What you are asking for does not exist.


  • Jon Isaacs, Illinois, vtornado and 3 others like this

#3 JohnBear

JohnBear

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: 08 Jul 2017
  • Loc: Sandy, Utah

Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:04 PM

In terms of telescope space in your trunk, I often use a small wooden folding TV Tray/stand or stool to put my OneSky on. Walmart also has folding stools (about $15) to sit on that would go well with that setup and take up minimum space. 

Love that OneSky!


Edited by JohnBear, 26 February 2020 - 07:07 PM.

  • Augustus likes this

#4 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,996
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:35 PM

Good afternoon CN members. 

 

I've read many posts for telescopes under $300 but would like your opinions on what I need for the best views of Orion Nebula with color.

 

I came across an Amazon page with a customer's image review of a colorful M42 from the Meade 80mm Adventure scope but don't know what EP I would need to get a colorful image like the review pic?

 

https://www.amazon.c...customerReviews

 

I recently went to a star party at the Griffith Observatory in LA.  My first viewing was a colorful Orion Nebula through a Meade LX90 and I was hooked.  So beautiful.

 

Since then,  I wanted to buy a Sky-Watcher 6" DOB,  Starblast 6,  or AWB but don't have enough room for a stool too to put in the car's trunk;  and I would like to keep the setup simple with a stand being provided.  I would consider Used but haven't found anything on ebay, CN classfied or on New Orleans craigslist for under $340 for a total setup.

 

If you have a link for used or new,  I would like to know.

I am strongly considering buying a new Meade Infinity 102 for $188 from walmart for their easy return policy.
Is the new Meade StarPro AZ 102 alot better for $239?
And with your recommendations,  what eyepieces would I need?

 

I plan to go camping in Yosemite and Yellowstone in a couple of months and have 1/3 of the car's trunk space available for a telescope.

Viet

You mean the _picture_ of M42?

 

Don't make an all too common mistake.  Astrophotography images bear no resemblance at all to what you can see with your eyes.

 

Your eyes take an exposure of a fraction of a second.  The camera exposes for hours.  Then the data from the camera is processed intensively on a computer.  The result bears zero resemblance to what you see through the scope.

 

It's a _completely_ different thing.  Cannot emphasize that enough.


  • lee14, pugliano, BFaucett and 5 others like this

#5 siriusandthepup

siriusandthepup

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,124
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Central Texas, USA

Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:46 PM

Those long exposure photos do NOT represent what the view will look like at the eyepiece. Your eye can only store about 1/30 of a second worth of light.

 

If you would like to see color in the Orion Nebula you are gonna need a 12" + telescope. And that will still not be as dramatic as the color in the photo.

 

Just something you need to get used to in this hobby.

 

A 6" f/8 would be a wonderful starter scope, though I understand your desire for compactness.

 

Good luck!


  • Augustus, Arthur NY, sunnyday and 1 other like this

#6 SeattleScott

SeattleScott

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,155
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011

Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:49 PM

You need an EAA camera for color view of Orion Nebula. The cheapest EAA kit is $300, or a bit less if you supply your own laptop. You would also need to spend at least $300 on a scope, probably more like $500 retail price.

It still won’t look like the picture on the box. But it is the cheapest way to see color.

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 26 February 2020 - 07:55 PM.

  • Starman27 likes this

#7 DavidC

DavidC

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,634
  • Joined: 24 Nov 2005
  • Loc: Mesa, Arizona

Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:52 PM

And don't buy any telescope from wally world {walmart} that's a good way of getting discouraged in astronomy really quick. They have lousy mounts, lousy optics, and lousy telescopes all around. They promise magnificent views, but all you'll get is confusion and discouragement.. Save your money and get a good one, look here in CN classifieds, you might find a good used one within your budget. 


  • siriusandthepup, Augustus and Vietbear like this

#8 acochran

acochran

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 647
  • Joined: 19 Jun 2008
  • Loc: Sonora, CA

Posted 26 February 2020 - 07:56 PM

Is it possible that Vietbear was looking through some kind of image intensified/night vision type equipment? I see Tele Vue sells one for several thousand dollars.

Andy



#9 NorthernlatAK

NorthernlatAK

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 870
  • Joined: 22 Sep 2018

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:06 PM

I've seen slight color, again, slight, on extremely transparent nights on m42 through my 8" dob. It is gray overall with a tinge of green around the trapezium and a rusty pink on the "wings". Images and what your eyes see are completely different. Any color visible will be very dependant on conditions and observing experience. Most nights m42 is gray, but occasionally some color shows. Don't expect anything near what you see in photos, but what detail you can tease out of an object with a given telescope.
  • Augustus, Star Geezer and Vietbear like this

#10 SillySMS

SillySMS

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 22
  • Joined: 07 Aug 2019
  • Loc: Austin, TX

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:17 PM

I was able to go to a star party a few weeks back and looked at the Orion nebula in both a pair of 7x50 binoculars and a 70mm refractor. It was a beautiful, breathtaking... faint fuzzy white "bat wing" extending from a star. I was happy just seeing the nebula, but wasn't able to pick out any real detail or color.

 

I'll defer to others on their experience with big telescopes, but I'm inclined to believe they're correct: either you need a really big telescope and a good night, or a long-exposure astrophotographic rig. I'm not sure what electronically assisted astronomy is, though I suspect it's basically live astrophotography, where a computer stores frames and attempts to dynamically build up a composite image rather than waiting to get back home and process the data. Please correct me if I'm wrong!


  • Jon Isaacs, bobzeq25 and Vietbear like this

#11 Eddgie

Eddgie

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 25,728
  • Joined: 01 Feb 2006

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:44 PM

Is it possible that Vietbear was looking through some kind of image intensified/night vision type equipment? I see Tele Vue sells one for several thousand dollars.

Andy

It would not be color if he viewed using an image intensifier.  The output of these is either a yellowgeen color or a white with a slighly bluish tint.

 

Not sure what the OP say, but we know that to see color, the scope has to be quite large, or some kind of imaging or EAA camera was being used.

 

If it was NV though, it would be monochrome either white or green


  • Augustus and Vietbear like this

#12 vtornado

vtornado

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,579
  • Joined: 22 Jan 2016
  • Loc: Northern Illinois

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:45 PM

I have a 12 inch dob.  Nebula looks great, but not much color.  maybe ... maybe a tinge of green in the mostly grey mass.

I do have bright skies, maybe I could see a little more color if not for sky wash.

 

Stars have color, planets have color.  That is about it.

 

If you are going to a real dark site, I would choose short, refractor and long focal length eyepiece, and just sweep the sky.

Something you can't do at home.   However ... you have to think the scope will come home and not be as useful.

in an urban sky.

 

Bino's are excellent in dark skies.


  • Augustus and Vietbear like this

#13 SeattleScott

SeattleScott

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,155
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:52 PM

I was able to go to a star party a few weeks back and looked at the Orion nebula in both a pair of 7x50 binoculars and a 70mm refractor. It was a beautiful, breathtaking... faint fuzzy white "bat wing" extending from a star. I was happy just seeing the nebula, but wasn't able to pick out any real detail or color.

I'll defer to others on their experience with big telescopes, but I'm inclined to believe they're correct: either you need a really big telescope and a good night, or a long-exposure astrophotographic rig. I'm not sure what electronically assisted astronomy is, though I suspect it's basically live astrophotography, where a computer stores frames and attempts to dynamically build up a composite image rather than waiting to get back home and process the data. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

That is a good description of EAA. In general it is doing very short exposures to view in near real-time, or night vision.

Short exposure is a relative term in EAA. For some it is a few seconds. For others it might be several minutes. But it is NOT spending hours imaging the same target through half a dozen filters. That is AP.

Scott

Edited by SeattleScott, 26 February 2020 - 08:55 PM.

  • SillySMS likes this

#14 sunnyday

sunnyday

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 5,113
  • Joined: 23 Sep 2019
  • Loc: Ottawa,Canada

Posted 26 February 2020 - 08:53 PM

when i started doing astronomy, i think the same as you.
but unfortunately it's impossible due to the way our eyes work in the dark and process information,
However, in a wide aperture telescope, i can see the color green.
this is the easiest for our brain to process. good sky to you.


Edited by sunnyday, 26 February 2020 - 08:53 PM.

  • Augustus and Vietbear like this

#15 Jon Isaacs  Happy Birthday!

Jon Isaacs

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 82,939
  • Joined: 16 Jun 2004
  • Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA

Posted 26 February 2020 - 09:32 PM

Under dark skies, some nights, it's possible to see color in M-42 with a larger aperture scope.  But the colors are subtle at best.

 

The color vision of the human eye is not very sensitive and outside of bright, colorful stars, the planets, and a few bright planetary nebula,visual astronomy is essentially a grayscale experience.

 

I have no expectations of seeing color even with my 22 inch because the darker adapted eye is not about seeing color.

 

Jon


  • Illinois, Augustus and Vietbear like this

#16 Vietbear

Vietbear

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 26 Feb 2020
  • Loc: Louisiana

Posted 26 February 2020 - 10:07 PM

Augusta,
I was hoping it exist for $300 but it seem like I would need to spend $3000 for a Meade 12 LX90.

 

John Bear,
If I can find a folding TV Tray/stand for an OneSky AWB, Starblast 6, or Zhumell Z130;  I'll go with this setup.
There are posts of home built stands but I find it cumbersome.

 

bobzeq25,
The M42 picture from Amazon reviewer on the Meade Adventure 80mm must have been an Astrophotography image.  I'm happy with that small size of Orion Nebula in 80mm.
The image I saw at the star party at Griffith Observatory was similar to it but twice the size and colorful (purple and blue) in real time.  I remember seeing a sticker LX90 on the side of the telescope and a giant dark blue short tube.  It was probably a Meade 12 LX90.
I knew nothing about telescopes and was too speechless to ask about his setup.

 

siriusandthepup,
Thank you for your recommendation of a 6" f/8 scope.  I really want that Sky-Watcher 6" but it is 50" long in length and won't fit in my car trunk.
Will the Table Top telescopes provided much better views over the 80mm and 102mm?  Probably...
I am satisfy with the Amazon page reviewer's pic of M42 with the Meade 80mm Adventure Scope even if it just white and black.

 

Seattlescott,
Thanks for making me realize that I will have to spend more to see color.  If I do buy a $300 EAA kit,  what $300 scope and what eyepieces would you recommend to view the Orion Nebula?

 

DavidC,
Some members here are satisfy with the Meade Infinity 102.  I probably need at least a 6" DOB for Orion Nebula.  Wish I can just buy a Meade 12 LX90.  :)

 

acochran,
I should had ask what his setup was but there was a long line and I didn't want to be bothersome.

 

NorthernlatAK,
Hoping to see some color with

 

SillySMS,
It was breathtaking.  Wish I can go back in time and view it again.

 

Eddgie,
When looking through the eyepiece, the image was similar to the Amazon Meade Adventure 80mm M42 reviewer's pic but it was twice as large.  The Orion Nebula was beautiful in bright purple and blue.

 

vtornado,
Hoping to see color again when I leave the urban city to dark sites4

 

sunnydays,
How wide of an aperature I need?  Is a 6" with dark sites good enough?  good sky to you too

Jon Isaacs,

 

I will lower my expectations and accept that it will be a grayscale experience.

Now to see if a 6" table top and a folding stand will fit in my trunk.  I enjoy reading your responses.

 

As they said "Clear Skies",
Viet


  • sunnyday likes this

#17 Augustus

Augustus

    Fly Me To The Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,949
  • Joined: 26 Dec 2015
  • Loc: Stamford, Connecticut

Posted 26 February 2020 - 10:09 PM

Augusta,
I was hoping it exist for $300 but it seem like I would need to spend $3000 for a Meade 12 LX90.

That is not the solution either, and a 12" Dob is $900 and has the same views. I suggest doing some basic reading and research.


  • BFaucett, SeaBee1 and Arthur NY like this

#18 Napp

Napp

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,910
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2015
  • Loc: Florida, USA

Posted 26 February 2020 - 10:25 PM

Look up your local astronomy club.  Join them for their next star party or observing session so you can look through different scopes and start to learn what to expect.  I notice you plan to transport your scope in the trunk of your car.  Can you instead use the back seat?  It would allow transporting a larger scope.


  • Jim4321, Augustus and sunnyday like this

#19 lonn

lonn

    Explorer 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 63
  • Joined: 24 Mar 2019
  • Loc: Happy Valley, N. California

Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:01 PM

Maybe a 6in dob and a car top storage?  https://www.walmart....f-Bag/15125810? Orion SkyQuest XT6 Classic Dobsonian Telescope. May not fit in this bag but you get the idea.


Edited by lonn, 26 February 2020 - 11:03 PM.


#20 SeattleScott

SeattleScott

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 7,155
  • Joined: 14 Oct 2011

Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:03 PM

For specifics about EAA you should ask in the EAA forum. But in general you want a GoTo scope around F6-F5. Aperture isn’t a big deal, but 80mm is a good lower limit.

I am a relative novice in this area so others in EAA forum can better advise you.

Scott
  • Augustus likes this

#21 Vietbear

Vietbear

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 26 Feb 2020
  • Loc: Louisiana

Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:06 PM

Thank you Napp and Ionn.  Will look up an Astronomy Club in New Orleans.

 

I'm planning a month long road trip with my parents from New Orleans to Montana and we will have many stops along the way. 

I rather not keep anything in the rear seats or on top of the car to prevent theft.



#22 Napp

Napp

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,910
  • Joined: 26 Jul 2015
  • Loc: Florida, USA

Posted 26 February 2020 - 11:45 PM

https://skyandtelesc...=&tag=louisiana


  • Vietbear likes this

#23 Anony

Anony

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 198
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2018
  • Loc: Long Island, NY

Posted 27 February 2020 - 01:35 AM


If you have a link for used or new,  I would like to know.

I am strongly considering buying a new Meade Infinity 102 for $188 from walmart for their easy return policy.
Is the new Meade StarPro AZ 102 alot better for $239?

 

I can only speak for myself, but in bortle 6 skies with a 6" dobsonian and an Infinity 102, the orion nebula is just a small cloud -- and on good nights I can make out the 4 stars in the trapezium. Forget about color.

 

As an owner of the Infinity 102, I would strongly recommend NOT to get it. The mount is complete garbage. I know some members here have recommended it to beginners ... one reason I got it actually.  But my telescope, less than three months old, is close to useless due to the mount.

 

Anyone considering that scope should first watch this video:

https://www.youtube....h?v=vFqUuhbqiVA

 

And I'd say the mount is even worse than he experiences ... the jerkiness of it is actually a best case scenario. Mine can't hold its vertical anymore unless I keep tightening it with a wrench.

 

The Starpro 102 has to be better than the Infinity, so if you want a refractor, at least try that one instead. It almost can't be worse, unless the scope literally falls off the mount every time you look through it.


Edited by Anony, 27 February 2020 - 01:39 AM.

  • Jon Isaacs and Vietbear like this

#24 MalVeauX

MalVeauX

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,655
  • Joined: 25 Feb 2016
  • Loc: Florida

Posted 27 February 2020 - 07:42 AM

Heya,

 

Most of it is covered, so mainly looking at your latest response; I would suggest a 6" aperture mirror for your road-scope. Under a dark sky you will see a lot of with that. M42 (Orion's nebula) is pretty big and bright in many scopes, but it's a target that fleshes out and you start to see the structures, the trapezium, the dust lanes, etc, go farther and farther from its core as your aperture gets bigger and bigger. I'm under a dark sky (green zone) and when I compare what M42 looks like from an 80mm to my 250mm, it's significantly different. Even with my 127mm aperture, I can see significant detail around the core, the structures around the trapezium. And it just gets better and better with larger apertures. I think most subject matter really starts to open up in that 150mm (6") aperture range under a dark sky, from a ratio of portability/size to what you can see with such an aperture. Granted, all subjects are even better with a 12" aperture, but for the size/weight it's not always an option. You clearly need something portable. For cost, nothing will beat a 6" newtonian.

 

GSO 6" F5 Newtonian Reflector ($229)

13lbs total weight on the OTA; under 30" length (the shipping box is that big, so it shorter than that), so it's well within your space needs

Mount it either on a Porta II Tall or a SkyviewDeluxe for all-terrain use anywhere (both are $299).

Personally I'm not a fan of the dob-mount approach, especially when using it for camping or traveling (bulky, heavy, can be broken, they're just boards).

 

Very best,


  • SpaceConqueror3 and Vietbear like this

#25 rhetfield

rhetfield

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 310
  • Joined: 14 Aug 2019
  • Loc: Suburban Chicago, IL, USA

Posted 27 February 2020 - 08:51 AM

If I can find a folding TV Tray/stand for an OneSky AWB, Starblast 6, or Zhumell Z130;  I'll go with this setup.

There are posts of home built stands but I find it cumbersome.

 

 

Walmart, Menards, Home Depot and the like are good places to look for that sort of stuff.  Also, the little tabletops can be set on just about anything.  5 gallon bucket, cooler, minifridge, hotel trash bucket, chair, rock, patio table, car hood.  Some have been known to sit on the ground with it in their lap.  The Onesky OTA is only 7 lbs and it has a vixen mount on it.  Not sure what the others have.  A look through the classifieds might find a suitable tripod mount for a reasonable price.  These are pretty light tubes and don't need much tripod.


Edited by rhetfield, 27 February 2020 - 08:52 AM.

  • harbinjer and Vietbear like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics