Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Looking for Recommendations-Orion ED80 vs Sky-Watcher 72ED

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 brlasy1

brlasy1

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2020

Posted 27 February 2020 - 11:16 PM

Looking to buy a modestly priced APO doublet for hobby level astrophotography and grab and go.  I've got a Nexstar 4SE for the moon and planets and have used a cheap Meade 80 Adventure Scope with my DSLR for prime focal shots of Andromeda, Orion, Pleiades, etc. using my Nexstar mount and wedge.   

 

I'm looking for a modest upgrade for the astrophotography side of my hobby, and have narrowed things down so far to the Orion ED80 and the Sky-Watcher Evostar 72ED.  Wondering what the pluses and minuses of each are?  The Orion is a bit slower, and has a single speed focuser.  The Skywatcher has a wider FOV and a dual speed focuser.  My OTA budget is a hard $500. 

 

At some point, I'll add an EQ mount.  I don't expect to go any bigger on the scope, whichever one I choose.

 

Thoughts, please.  Thanks in advance.



#2 klaussius

klaussius

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Buenos Aires

Posted 27 February 2020 - 11:33 PM

I just got the evostar 72ed, and I have to say I have mixed feelings about it.

First, it was sent without the flattener. A mixup that will get sorted out, but with the cov ordeal it will take a long time, and it's a bummer. It's not a good time to be depending on SW customer support these days.

Other than this time, SW has been very good to me, so I'm confident in time this will get sorted out, I'll only have los some time.

That said, I gave it a try last night. It's hard to properly assess optical quality without the flattener, but at first sight it looks well corrected. Stars near the center are nice and have good color.

Mechanically, though, it's not without issues. The focuser is a bit stiff for what I'm used to, but it held a heavy DSLR pointed up without focus shift so... can't complain really. But it has very little back focus travel, and that can be an issue.

I had to add an extension to reach focus on the DSLR. It probably wouldn't have been necessary had it had the flattener installed, but in any case the short focus travel can complicate things.

It's also not been easy mounting the guide scope on top of it. My setup is a bit unusual and maybe that plays a part in it, but the rings are small and I'll have to manufacture a dovetail for it because the one they sell is the wrong size.

I got a ton of flexure last night due to the makeshift coupling I could come up with. I couldn't help but notice that it hadn't been as troublesome with the 150P so I think a bit of the blame has to go to the 72ed design.

Other than those nuisances, my experience was good. I expect to get nice images out of it from what I could see... once I get the flattener.
  • brlasy1 likes this

#3 wrnchhead

wrnchhead

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,589
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2017
  • Loc: NE Kansas

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:26 AM

The ED80 is good. With a flattener. Which puts you over budget unless you can be patient and get both used. The focuser is frankly pretty cludgy although with the well-documented tuneups like flattening the friction surface on the drawtube, it can be made to work. It held my DSLR in any orientation if you crank down the tension knob.

Optically good, in every other way, it is built to a price.

Edited by wrnchhead, 28 February 2020 - 12:27 AM.

  • brlasy1 likes this

#4 Astrodymium

Astrodymium

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 83
  • Joined: 04 Sep 2019

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:35 AM

Please just get a AT72EDII or Apertura 72EDR.

The telescopes I listed above are literally better than the Evostar in every single regard. This is not an exaggeration.

You cannot rotate the focuser, there is no threaded connection, the focuser is not great without modifications, and the colour correction is poor for an ED doublet. You can see this in every image taken with the scope, there are halos around stars. I can see this in my own images and there is no way to easily fix it without destroying star colour.

 

https://www.astrobin.../full/366642/0/

https://www.astrobin...1982/D/?nc=user

https://www.astrobin.../full/405171/0/

https://www.astrobin.../full/419138/0/

https://www.astrobin...rukx/0/?nc=user

https://www.astrobin...mogm/0/?nc=user

https://www.reddit.c...lum_galaxy_m33/

 

Look at the stars. Most have blue/red/purple fringing.

You can also buy the TS70 from Europe which is very similar.


Edited by Astrodymium, 28 February 2020 - 11:04 PM.

  • OldManSky likes this

#5 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,943
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:36 AM

The 72, all the way. 

 

The 80ED is a great classic scope, I started with one.  Emphasis on "classic".  It's slow.  The focuser is mediocre.

 

For learning AP, the 72 beats it hollow.  Not a close call.


Edited by bobzeq25, 28 February 2020 - 12:36 AM.

  • wrnchhead likes this

#6 wrnchhead

wrnchhead

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,589
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2017
  • Loc: NE Kansas

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:39 AM

I see both the Apertura and the Astro Tech are backordered. Here is patience will really pay off.

 

You could also put out a wanted ad in the classifieds and someone may have something for you. 



#7 Redbetter

Redbetter

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,897
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2016
  • Loc: Central Valley, CA

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:41 AM

For AP color correction is probably more of a factor.  The ED80 is visually apochromatic, while what little I have heard of the SW 72ED is that it is not.  Instead the description of its performance sounded more like the original AT72ED in color correction.  The AT72EDII upgraded the glass to effectively the same type used in the ED80 and AT60ED (also visually apochromatic.)  I have an AT72EDII on backorder...oh well.



#8 RJF-Astro

RJF-Astro

    Mariner 2

  • -----
  • Posts: 298
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2018
  • Loc: Zeist, Netherlands

Posted 28 February 2020 - 05:15 AM

I have good experience with the 72ED without the SW reducer/corrector. I have used it in the past with a TS-optics 1.0x flattener and the results looked great, with very little color problems.

 

However when I added the SW reducer/corrector earlier last year, color problems emerged. Together with my Fuji X-T20 strange artifacts started to appear, see below.

 

Here's an image with the 1.0x flattener, made with a Nikon D750 (full frame). And here is one with the reducer/corrector and X-T20 (APS). Note that these are stretched subs with no correction.

 

And the artifacts on a stacked image:

 

20191030 M42 def.jpg

 

So I agree with Bob that a 70/72 is a good scope to start, especially with reducer making it something like f/5. But I don't know about the 72ED with the SW R/C. To be honest I sold it just recently, and if I were to pick one again I would take another scope, like the TS-Optics or AT. You could try with a third party reducer, but that only complicates matters. A dedicated reducer is easier to mount.


Edited by RJF-Astro, 28 February 2020 - 05:22 AM.


#9 terry59

terry59

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 9,408
  • Joined: 18 Jul 2011
  • Loc: Colorado, USA

Posted 28 February 2020 - 07:47 AM

The Orion 80ED is a well corrected doublet with the blue channel spot size (on mine) slightly larger than red and green. My "complaint" is that overall spot sizes are larger than those from a good triplet. Lots and lots of very good images are taken with them. As to speed and FOV, add a matched SW 0.85x reducer if desired


  • brlasy1 likes this

#10 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,943
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 28 February 2020 - 12:54 PM

I have good experience with the 72ED without the SW reducer/corrector. I have used it in the past with a TS-optics 1.0x flattener and the results looked great, with very little color problems.

 

However when I added the SW reducer/corrector earlier last year, color problems emerged. Together with my Fuji X-T20 strange artifacts started to appear, see below.

 

Here's an image with the 1.0x flattener, made with a Nikon D750 (full frame). And here is one with the reducer/corrector and X-T20 (APS). Note that these are stretched subs with no correction.

 

And the artifacts on a stacked image:

 

attachicon.gif20191030 M42 def.jpg

 

So I agree with Bob that a 70/72 is a good scope to start, especially with reducer making it something like f/5. But I don't know about the 72ED with the SW R/C. To be honest I sold it just recently, and if I were to pick one again I would take another scope, like the TS-Optics or AT. You could try with a third party reducer, but that only complicates matters. A dedicated reducer is easier to mount.

If necessary, you can use the 72 without a flattener to start.  Funny shaped stars at the edges don't interfere with learning AP.  It's still as fast as the 80 with a reducer.

 

Once you're in the ballgame, you can get the flattener or flattener/reducer.



#11 brlasy1

brlasy1

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2020

Posted 28 February 2020 - 01:59 PM

Great feedback from you all!   I had overlooked the field flattener as part of the equation.  Doh!  

 

I'll also give the alternate OTAs mentioned a look see.

 

Thanks, and keep it coming.



#12 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    Hubble

  • *****
  • Posts: 18,943
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 28 February 2020 - 04:37 PM

Keeping it coming.

 

Get the EQ mount sooner, rather than later, and _do not_ skimp on it.  The cheapest I'd recommend is a CEM25P.


Edited by bobzeq25, 29 February 2020 - 12:15 AM.

  • brlasy1 likes this

#13 brlasy1

brlasy1

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 13 Jan 2020

Posted 01 March 2020 - 10:15 PM

Found a used Meade 6000 80MM triplet APO in the Classifieds at my price point. Seemed like a good deal, so I jumped on it.  Thanks again for all the input! 


  • wrnchhead and OldManSky like this

#14 OldManSky

OldManSky

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,051
  • Joined: 03 Jan 2019
  • Loc: Valley Center, CA USA

Posted 01 March 2020 - 10:41 PM

Found a used Meade 6000 80MM triplet APO in the Classifieds at my price point. Seemed like a good deal, so I jumped on it.  Thanks again for all the input! 

Good find!

You'll still want a flattener, however...:)


  • brlasy1 likes this

#15 wrnchhead

wrnchhead

    Surveyor 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,589
  • Joined: 28 Aug 2017
  • Loc: NE Kansas

Posted 01 March 2020 - 11:44 PM

Still a great find. I did a year of learning without a flattener, and wowed my friends and family (my actual astrophotography goal). 


  • brlasy1 likes this

#16 klaussius

klaussius

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 352
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2019
  • Loc: Buenos Aires

Posted 02 March 2020 - 06:08 AM

Still a great find. I did a year of learning without a flattener, and wowed my friends and family (my actual astrophotography goal).

I also started without a flattener. You can still learn a lot. But the flattener turns nice images into great ones.

Getting one for that triplet imo should be a priority.

Edit: of course I'm not saying flatteners are magic, only that not having one will heavily degrade images through no fault of your technique. At some point, not too far ahead, you'll really want one.

Edited by klaussius, 02 March 2020 - 06:13 AM.

  • brlasy1 likes this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics