Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Hans Lippershey spyglass patent?

optics refractor
  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Clarkw

Clarkw

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2018
  • Loc: Southern California

Posted 22 March 2020 - 07:42 PM

Does anyone have a link to an image of the Hans Lippershey patent? I was trying to retrace exactly what he claimed to have invented for a presentation. I can find a lot of references to the patent application, the refusal, the subsequent patent by another eyeglass maker, etceteras, yet no image of his patent. Is that lost to the trash pile of history?

 

TIA for any information.

ClarkW



#2 Benach

Benach

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,254
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2008

Posted 23 March 2020 - 01:59 AM

If it still exists, it will most likely be kept in the Dutch national archives. Just did a very quick search query there up to no avail.
If you are really really interested, I can contact them as soon as this Corona is over. At the moment there is a near lockdown for governmental affairs. Visiting them will cost me about two hours single way. So yeah, doable but it is also not nextdoor for me.

But it could also be that the patent was never filed but only the rights of the invention were given to Lippershey. The Netherlands were at war at the time of the invention and it was in fact shown to the Prince of Orange as a military instrument and not as an astronomical instrument. Could be that because of strategic reasons it was never filed.

#3 Clarkw

Clarkw

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2018
  • Loc: Southern California

Posted 23 March 2020 - 03:00 AM

I appreciate the offer but it is really not that important. I thought the Netherlands would have posted such a thing and it would be readily available on the internet. The typical spyglass arrangement of a convex objective with convex eyepiece will have to do. It is only a 30 minute presentation and I've got images of Galileo's drawings. I'll just slip quickly from Herr Lippershey to the Master.

 

I'll do without.

 

Thank you though for the offer. I am truly grateful.

ClarkW



#4 BGRE

BGRE

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,820
  • Joined: 21 Mar 2016
  • Loc: New Zealand

Posted 23 March 2020 - 03:51 AM

Whilst application was made, was it actually granted?

#5 beggarly

beggarly

    Viking 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 787
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2015
  • Loc: Belgium

Posted 23 March 2020 - 04:22 AM

Here it is. In the Dutch version of Wikipedia: https://nl.wikipedia.../Hans_Lipperhey

It also says that his name is Lipperhey.

Another article with a larger picture of the patent: https://isgeschieden...an-de-telescoop


Edited by beggarly, 23 March 2020 - 04:29 AM.


#6 Clarkw

Clarkw

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2018
  • Loc: Southern California

Posted 23 March 2020 - 04:37 AM

Point well taken.

Application was made and denied as you said, basically because the lens arrangement was considered to be “common knowledge”.

However the application and denial should have been archived.

 

I believe two years later a patent was granted to another applicant and a court case ensued. Lippershey won and the later patent was rescinded.

 

There are several references on three different Wikipedia pages discussing the history of the telescope, Lippershey and Galileo. But I would have to check my notes to be certain. However, a denial of the patent would not preclude an archiving of the paperwork. So I was hoping. 
 

ClarkW



#7 Clarkw

Clarkw

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2018
  • Loc: Southern California

Posted 23 March 2020 - 04:49 AM

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. This is perfect. There’s no drawing but the article and images should work well. I did have to stretch my High School Dutch to read the article but it is always good to force yourself to reinforce idle brain cells. 
 

if you want to know about astronomy or telescopes look no further than the folks on Cloudy Nights. 
 

Thank you again

ClarkW 



#8 Benach

Benach

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,254
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2008

Posted 23 March 2020 - 06:16 AM

ClarkW: am native Dutch so I can make a direct translation if you want. The two other Dutch contestants of the patent claim were Zacharias (Zackary) Jansen and Jacob Metius. As far as I can find on various websites, cannot read that hardwritten scribbling on that website, it is only the letter of recommendation by the Gecommitteerde Raden (comparable to the State House of Representatives nowadays). The province that issued this letter, Zeeland, was the second but most important province of that time (First being Holland). However, it, is not the patent application itself. Of course this was legally a very strong document though.

However, I found where I can find this document. It is in the archives of the Dutch parliament. If you want me to try to make a full copy, just nudge. Here is a link that will provide you with more information in English: https://www.dwc.knaw...-12-Origins.pdf
This link will provide probably all the answers of the riddle of who invented the telescope once and for all. Note btw, that this book is published by the Dutch academy of sciences, a credible source.

BGRE: Yes, it was granted in the end as far as I know. The stadtholder of that time, Prince Maurice of Orange-Nassau (In the NLs known as Prins Maurits) was convinced of it's military value by being able to read the clock tower from The Hague to Delft (about 10km away) and details in the city of Leiden (about 35km away). He even showed it to his archenemy, Ambrogio Spinola who reportedly said "now I have nothing to hide, my war is lost.". This resulted in 12 years of armistice (Twaalfjarig bestand) between the Dutch and the Spanish. The final peace treaty was signed about 40 years later though.
  • howardcano likes this

#9 Clarkw

Clarkw

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2018
  • Loc: Southern California

Posted 23 March 2020 - 10:58 AM

WOW!!! This reference is perfect! I was immediately sucked into a time-warp and read the entire amazing collection of articles.

I had tried to find information all day on Lippershey and his place in the development of the telescope. I was beginning to lose hope. I would not have thought to delve into the Dutch Parliament archives.

 

The information is a gold mine of history and historiography. Everything I need was in the first and last articles. Especially tracing how in less-than-a-year the design had traveled from Holland to Italy and even to Southeast Asia. Just wonderful stuff. It is the kind of thing that brings-to-life the inanimate object of glass and cardboard or iron and makes the telescope an integral object in the lives of humans seeking to understand how it works.

 

Vanguard, thank you so very much. The history of the Dutch is sometimes glossed over in the USA education system but the rich history especially around the 17th and 18th centuries is vital to our culture. Much of our freedom of religion and bicameral government came from copying the Dutch settlements all along the north-eastern shores of the US. And the exploits of Michiel de Ruyter are legendary in Naval warfare ("The Admiral" was a pretty good movie too). I note that the "Grandfather" was born in 1607 and in every image I've seen of him he is holding a spyglass.

 

Thank you again sir! This has been a treasure trove of wonder for me.

ClarkW



#10 Benach

Benach

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,254
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2008

Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:00 PM

The nickname is Benach. smile.gif But no problem. Something that is not well known but is actually true is that the American declaration of independance is directly derived from the Dutch declaration of independance from Spain (Acte van Verlatinghe). Apart from that, many places in New York can still be recognised as a Dutch origin. To name a few:

 

Brooklyn, Breukelen: Dutch city between Amsterdam and Utrecht

 

Wall Street, de Wallen (city walls): The place where the First city was, or named after the Walloon people.

 

Staten Island, Staaten Eylandt: Staten is the Dutch word for states, but probably it is derived from the Dutch word for estates (standen). The name can still be seen in the Dutch official name for the parliament: Second chamber of the general estates (Tweede kamer der Staten Generaal).

 

To show some additional things: here is a link a photo of the outer wall of the current Dutch parlementary buildings. The tower on the right is where reportedly Prince Maurice of Nassau (Stadhouder Prins Maurits) stood when he was testing the telescope. The small tower behind that fountain is the current Prime Minister's office.



#11 RalphMeisterTigerMan

RalphMeisterTigerMan

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,103
  • Joined: 01 Nov 2016

Posted 23 March 2020 - 12:30 PM

The reason that the Netherlands was at war and that the telescope could be mis-construed as a "secret weapon" is one reason why the Hague did not to issure a patent.

 

The other reason is that during the same week (or so) that Hans applied for a patent, the Hague received approx. 5 other patents from 5 independant inventors (developers) the Hague declared that the patents were submitted so close together that it would be inappropriate to give a patent to ONE particular inventor.

 

However, Hans Lippershey is the person credited for the invention. Despite many people erroniously believing that Galileo Galilie discovered the instrument that we all know and love!

 

Clear skies!

RalphMeisterTigerMan



#12 Benach

Benach

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,254
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2008

Posted 23 March 2020 - 01:03 PM

RalphMeisterTigerMan: This story about the secret weapon is not true. Stadtholder Prince Maurice showed the telescope almost immediately to his archenemy Ambrogio Spinola. However, he was clearly overwhelmed by it's military advantage. See above for the direct consequences.



#13 Benach

Benach

    Vanguard

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,254
  • Joined: 24 Jan 2008

Posted 23 March 2020 - 07:33 PM

I am mistaken above. The patent was never granted because it was copied so incredibly fast and so many others claimed it was their invention. Very soon Lippershey was largely forgotten as the inventor of the telescope. It was not until the 19th century that he got the credits, see book above.
He made some money from a few orders from the government though.


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: optics, refractor



Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics