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Takahashi fc100dz, 100dl or fs102

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#26 bockos

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 10:05 PM

I read in an old post here https://www.cloudyni...02-vs-fc-100dc/

that fs102 has more contrast and magic wow compared to fc100df and since some say that there is no much difference between 100dl and 100df,

can we conclude that fs 102 is better than 100dl on finer planetary detail?



#27 sunnyday

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 10:44 PM

don't get bogged down in the carpet flowers.cool.gif


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#28 YAOG

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 11:31 PM

My second run DL has a serial number above 100. I highly doubt there are only 200 copies.

Takahashi only made 200 pieces of the DL per every report I've seen. Could it be that you are misinterpreting whatever number you are looking at? 


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#29 YAOG

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Posted 03 April 2020 - 11:33 PM

I read in an old post here https://www.cloudyni...02-vs-fc-100dc/

that fs102 has more contrast and magic wow compared to fc100df and since some say that there is no much difference between 100dl and 100df,

can we conclude that fs 102 is better than 100dl on finer planetary detail?

No need to speculate, if put them side by side the FS-102 lags behind the FC-100DL at high magnification.   


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#30 bockos

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 12:05 AM

I wonder which to buy and thats why i am curious which will be better for contraster and finer planetary detail at high magnifications. Maybe it depends on the copy variations between DL,DZ and FS.



#31 sunnyday

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 12:13 AM

you break your head for nothing.
 a person can  find this model interesting and you no and me yes
I tell you whatever model you choose you will be satisfied.


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#32 m9x18

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 12:24 AM

Go with the Takahashi you can best afford (and at the same time - acquire, outfit and use) and you will not be disappointed. 


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#33 25585

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 01:24 AM

How many DL's are still available to be bought new ?

 

Once the 2nd run of 100 have sold out they won't be making any more as far as I know.

http://www.takahashi...fc100dl_pe.html



#34 paul

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 02:03 AM

Hi ,

I had a DF ... I sold it because .. well it just wasn't perfect. I bought a used FS 102 and it is ,, I cannot over power it. built like a tank and good for the soul.. guess I just like it old school..

Good luck!!!

Paul


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#35 25585

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 02:59 AM

Hi ,

I had a DF ... I sold it because .. well it just wasn't perfect. I bought a used FS 102 and it is ,, I cannot over power it. built like a tank and good for the soul.. guess I just like it old school..

Good luck!!!

Paul

How was the DF less perfect? 



#36 rerun

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 03:07 AM

I own a FC100DF  for two years now and it is perfect ! It gave me amazing views with all my eyepieces. Nagler 11mm, 7mm,5mm and 3,5mm and Panoptic 27mm. It is my most used 4" Refractor I ever had, it is lightweight and handy. With perfect optic.

 

Clear skies Markus 


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#37 StarDust1

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 03:57 AM

Don't get me wrong. The DF/DC/DL are excellent scopes. I haven't had the DZ, so I can't comment on that.

Though I wouldn't wright off the FS-102 as some folks here do. Look through one, do a side by side test if you can, on Jupiter/Saturn or Mars, then let us know what you think.


Edited by StarDust1, 04 April 2020 - 03:58 AM.

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#38 donadani

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 04:15 AM

Don't get me wrong. The DF/DC/DL are excellent scopes. I haven't had the DZ, so I can't comment on that.

Though I wouldn't wright off the FS-102 as some folks here do. Look through one, do a side by side test if you can, on Jupiter/Saturn or Mars, then let us know what you think.

...there will be no remarkable difference - same for the FL-102S... btw.

 

All those discussions about color-correction are academic - if you want to see differences lay those apos on an optical bench and do a startest at 400x in doublepass - then you see real differences but not really under the night sky... 

 

Much more important for me would be weight, size, robustness, back-focus, focusser-travel, collimateable lenscell... - maybe spherical correction of each sample where I never saw a REAL bad one within 3x FL, 2x FS, 1xDC, 2xFC(old) and my most liked fluorit doublet is a FS-128 btw. that with some luck one can get for the price of a new DL or DZ smile.gif

 

It never lusted me to much for a better color corrected 4" fluorit doublet because I have one of the best color corrected fluorit triplets - an f/10 105mm oil filled Astro Optik Manufaktur apo and even the differences to that one are not really worth mentioning compared to my Tasco FL-102S.

 

...on the other side... go, go buy some more DZ´s - so somewhere in future we can get some for a low price on the used market when Tak releases their next one laugh.gif


Edited by donadani, 04 April 2020 - 04:29 AM.

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#39 StarDust1

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 04:16 AM

I bought a used FS 102 and it is ,, I cannot over power it. 

Paul

Well, I will take on your challenge lol.gif 

 

Yesterday the seeing was excellent. I let the FS-102NSV cool for an hour or so. Tried different eyepieces on the Moon (Waxing gibbous, 65% visible), XW, XO, TOE, HR and the views were sharp all the way to the 2mm HR eyepiece. I tried 1.6mm HR eyepiece, still acceptable view. Then for fun, I put the Baader VIP 2x barlow with the 1.6mm HR eyepiece, that is 1025x power, I was astonished that I could still make out details. Of course with these high magnification no new details can be seen. It sure is fun...


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#40 StarDust1

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 04:20 AM

Agreed Donadani, difference are small with these scopes. I would go with weight, size etc criteria... when choosing one. And don't look back... We are still talking about only 4" aperture...

 

I would say, when looking inside/outside of focus, the slower the focal length the color free it gets. As of color correction from the samples that I have owned, I would rank as following, DF -> FS -> DL, not sure where the DZ falls in to as I haven't looked through one. To my eyes the FS and DL were very close. What counts is the in focus image. All the FC/FS/DL that I owned were excellent. I would be happy with either.

 

If these scope labels were hidden, without knowing which one one was looking through, I would be hard impressed if one could make out these scopes. I do believe the longer focal length scopes, like FS and DL (or the DZ, I haven't had this scope, I can't comment on this one) can take a little more magnification.


Edited by StarDust1, 04 April 2020 - 04:54 AM.

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#41 donadani

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 05:42 AM

When I got my AOM 105 we had some scopes on the optical bench 

 

FS-102

TSA-102

LZOS-100f8

FC-100N

 

The FS was somewhat of a "parrot" at 400x in doublepass - best the AOM followed by LZOS and TSA & FC on a third place (where the TSA disappointed a bit in my view...). Later on a DL and FL was tested too colorwise the DL was very close to the triplets what I heard I would guess the DZ should be in the same league... The FL was tested too and seemed to be somewhere between the FS and DL. 

 

But that is not relevant for the nightsky! The TSA as well as any FS I had were great, great scopes for the planets! 

 

The newer DC I had too - it showed one of the best startest I ever saw - and was such a cute scope! I should not have sold it... wink.gif

 

At the end I stay with the AOM fluorit-triplet, a classic FC-100N and Tasco FL - comparing them 1:1 I would be more then happy whith the FL-102S as the "one&only" (luckily I must not decide such things! laugh.gif )

 

...and as mentioned regarding the FS - I LOVE the FS-128 and I don´t think it is as well corrected as it´s little brother the FS-102...


Edited by donadani, 04 April 2020 - 06:18 AM.

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#42 mikeDnight

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 06:42 AM

I read in an old post here https://www.cloudyni...02-vs-fc-100dc/

that fs102 has more contrast and magic wow compared to fc100df and since some say that there is no much difference between 100dl and 100df,

can we conclude that fs 102 is better than 100dl on finer planetary detail?

No! 

 

I've used numerous FS refractors for observing the planets and they were all great scopes, but they did show a more noticeable colour fringe around bright objects than the old Vixen FL 102, which is the equivalent effectively of the new DL. I always felt that the Vixen FL102 had an edge in planetary performance when compared to the FS102 and deeply regretted not being able to acquire one for myself.

I've had the chance also, to observe with three different DL refractors and boy were they good. The finest view of Jupiter I've ever had through any telescope, regardless of aperture, was through a FC100DL, which gave the finet definition ive ever seen.  My incoming DZ has a hard act to follow!


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#43 Marcus Roman

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 07:22 AM

No need to speculate, if put them side by side the FS-102 lags behind the FC-100DL at high magnification.   

Not tried ever Taka FC100DL but this summer in medium-good seeing, my 20 years old Taka FS102 reached easily 300x with Taka MC-OR 2.8 eyepiece on Jupiter and Saturn giving me absolutely sharp and contrasty images....so DL must really be magic to exceed this magnitudes.

Maybe DL is just more corrected on colour aberration as some friends from Japan told me.


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#44 mikeDnight

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 08:24 AM

Even the FC100DC with a 1.6X extender Q and 2.5mm Vixen LV, gave amazing colour free views of Mars at 4.8 arc seconds with a power of 474X. Flying over the Appenine mountains at 474X literally took my breath away as my stomach rolled when I drifted over the 3D cliff edge. Venus at 474X was the ultimate party trick and wowed several seasoned observers who came to check out the new DC. And after buying the Vixen HR's I was equally amazed by the DC's colour free limb of the Moon at 463X while at its native F7.4. Whatever the real world differences there may be between these scopes, its really splitting hairs, but i suppose thats part of the Tak owners sport.


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#45 bockos

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 09:26 AM

Thanks for the very useful opinions. Acrtually I have a chance to look through Tak 100DC in February this year but wasn't impressed, maybe it was a bad sample, it was also dim and not sharper than 120ed. Actiually my skaywatcher 120ed was alot brighter at 300x with more contrast and a tinty bit sharper and holds better high power viewing. So I hope 100dl or fs102 to be better than 100dc, at least with more sharpness, contrast and brighter image.


Edited by bockos, 04 April 2020 - 09:28 AM.


#46 Bill Barlow

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 11:36 AM

A 120mm scope should be a noticeably brighter than a 100mm scope, no matter what brand they are.

 

I once owned one of the first run DL scopes and a DC at the same time and did a few side by side comparisons.  From what I remember, I couldn’t tell any difference in the views at similar magnifications when looking at deep sky objects, Jupiter, Saturn and the moon.  Both were outstanding, but the DC was more portable as many have already said.

 

If I were buying a new FC 100mm Tak today, not sure which one I would get.  But I did like the long and sleek look of the DL, so might lean toward that one, plus it already has the MEF-3 duel speed focuser installed.  But since I have a Stowaway coming soon, will keep the very portable 76DCU and the A-P.

 

Bill


Edited by Bill Barlow, 04 April 2020 - 11:39 AM.

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#47 Hesiod

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 01:50 PM

I suppose that dc was not one of the best, or there was an issue of some sort with visual accessories.
The "magic" of these small refractors is that can push the magnifications to absurd values almost without realizing how far have gone

#48 John Huntley

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 03:44 PM

This is dated 17th August 2018.

 

Translation:

 

Thank you for your patronage of our products.

 

The FC-100DL lens barrel, which had been sold in limited quantities since last May, has reached the planned number and will be closed. We are sorry for the customers who have been considering purchasing, but we would like to thank you for your understanding because it is a product that we have been informed in advance as limited production.

We do not have stock, but there are places where we have stock at dealers, so if you are planning to purchase it, it is better to contact us as soon as possible.

 

In addition, we will continue to produce FC-100DC and FC-100DF, 10cm 2 piece flourite, so we hope you will consider this as well.

 

My reading of that is they stopped after 2 batches of 100 scopes. As they said they would.

 

I guess there are a few that remain unsold here and there though.


Edited by John Huntley, 04 April 2020 - 03:46 PM.

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#49 25585

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 04:05 PM

This is dated 17th August 2018.

 

Translation:

 

Thank you for your patronage of our products.

 

The FC-100DL lens barrel, which had been sold in limited quantities since last May, has reached the planned number and will be closed. We are sorry for the customers who have been considering purchasing, but we would like to thank you for your understanding because it is a product that we have been informed in advance as limited production.

We do not have stock, but there are places where we have stock at dealers, so if you are planning to purchase it, it is better to contact us as soon as possible.

 

In addition, we will continue to produce FC-100DC and FC-100DF, 10cm 2 piece flourite, so we hope you will consider this as well.

 

My reading of that is they stopped after 2 batches of 100 scopes. As they said they would.

 

I guess there are a few that remain unsold here and there though.

Correct. I bought my 2nd run DL in Jan 2018 & Nick at Trutek Astro told me then they were winding down, but a "3rd run" (we now know as the DZ series) was coming.

 

Following SGL & CN, DL sales & buys of pre-loved ones in these small communities do happen, perhaps making the DLs seem more recently made than 2018.  



#50 m9x18

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Posted 04 April 2020 - 04:07 PM

This is dated 17th August 2018.

 

Translation:

 

Thank you for your patronage of our products.

 

The FC-100DL lens barrel, which had been sold in limited quantities since last May, has reached the planned number and will be closed. We are sorry for the customers who have been considering purchasing, but we would like to thank you for your understanding because it is a product that we have been informed in advance as limited production.

We do not have stock, but there are places where we have stock at dealers, so if you are planning to purchase it, it is better to contact us as soon as possible.

 

In addition, we will continue to produce FC-100DC and FC-100DF, 10cm 2 piece flourite, so we hope you will consider this as well.

 

My reading of that is they stopped after 2 batches of 100 scopes. As they said they would.

 

I guess there are a few that remain unsold here and there though.

That is true. According to Texas Nautical Repair, there are a couple of them left unsold. 


Edited by m9x18, 04 April 2020 - 04:08 PM.



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