119 replies to this topic

[GoFish]

Thank you for this.

 

I will definitely go through the effort of setting up ASIAIR Live View Calibration Masters. Thank you for the info about using Live View to do it for EAA.

 

Just a few more questions (apologies):

 

1. I'm assuming that for all these Live View Calibration Masters they have to be done with my telescope + camera + ASIAIR Plus all fully setup and in position outdoors prior to my EAA session?

 

2. Would these need to be done every time before an EAA session?

 

3. Is it possible to set up my scope indoors to take Live View darks, bias and flats calibration masters? (Lights being done by pointing my telescope at my intended viewing target on the night)

 

Thank you. Appreciate the help.

1. Only the flats require telescope + camera + AAP be set up together.

 

2. Only the flats would be done before each session.  And if the focus has not been significantly changed, nor the camera removed/repositioned, then even flats can be reused. (Beware, though, if any new dust somehow gets in the imaging train then you might have to redo the flats).

 

3. Taking darks and bias (or dark flats) can be done indoors. There is no need for the camera to even be attached to the scope.  Flats could be done indoors so long as the scope and camera remain attached in the same config for lights as for the indoor flats.  I think most would avoid this method, though. Ideally you’d like to not handle the scope after taking flats. 

 

As others have suggested, a cooled camera allows the creation, indoors, of a darks library to cover a range of exposure times (and sensor temperatures if you wish).

[Darth Riker]

Oh cool. So since I have a cooled camera I can literally just have the camera connected to the ASIAIR Plus with the lens cap on and take my darks and bias indoors that way (just be in a dark room to reduce any potential light bleed).

 

Thanks for the info re: flats.

 

Just for my own curiosity I might have a go at indoor flats, though. Would be interesting to the see the difference in EAA quality achieved.

[Darth Riker]

Hi all,

Well I'm looking at purchasing a LED Light Pad for taking Flats in Live mode using the ASIAIR Plus.

Would any of these work with taking Flats for a Celestron C8 SCT with my ASI294MC Pro camera? Do I need to have my Dew Shield attached when I do this?

Flats I'm considering:

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,245&sr=8-7

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,245&sr=8-4

https://www.amazon.c...aps,245&sr=8-15

https://www.officewo...#specifications

Edited by Darth Riker, 13 July 2022 - 01:06 AM.

[Darth Riker]

Hmm. Actually, I'm going to try using an embroidery loop with white cotton t-shirt/white cotton fabric and take sky flats at dusk before an EAA (Live Stacking) session.

 

Similar to the way it's done here in this video (obviously not capturing flats using autorun as he has done): https://www.youtube....H6mBf5nw&t=573s

[steveincolo]

Hmm. Actually, I'm going to try using an embroidery loop with white cotton t-shirt/white cotton fabric and take sky flats at dusk before an EAA (Live Stacking) session.

 

Similar to the way it's done here in this video (obviously not capturing flats using autorun as he has done): https://www.youtube....H6mBf5nw&t=573s

That should work so long as your setup isn’t too far from focused. It’s definitely easier than mucking about with an LED panel. Remember to use the auto exposure setting for the flats.  

Edited by steveincolo, 16 July 2022 - 10:29 AM.

[jcheak]

Does anyone know if you can name the master dark more descriptive, to possibly have the exposure and gain as part of the name? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Thanks

John

[norvegicus]

Does anyone know if you can name the master dark more descriptive, to possibly have the exposure and gain as part of the name? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

Thanks

John

Yes, there is a setting for which things make it into the name.  I don't remember off hand where that is, but it's in some settings/preferences screen.  I think I turned everything on; the most useful was the camera model being included.

Edited by norvegicus, 14 October 2022 - 07:34 AM.

[steveincolo]

I made several suggestions in the ZWO forum for how to improve live stacking on the ASIAir (scroll to the bottom). 
 

• Noise reduction
• Unsharp mask
• Gradient removal
• Color balancing by aligning histogram peaks
• Dither without guiding
• Undo the last sub
• “Save” gives a full resolution jpeg, not half size

ZWO did acknowledge them, at least. 

[norvegicus]

I made several suggestions in the ZWO forum for how to improve live stacking on the ASIAir (scroll to the bottom). 
 

• Noise reduction
• Unsharp mask
• Gradient removal
• Color balancing by aligning histogram peaks
• Dither without guiding
• Undo the last sub
• “Save” gives a full resolution jpeg, not half size

ZWO did acknowledge them, at least. 

Thanks for doing that.  The save issue is incredibly annoying.

[davidparks]

In the latest Beta, yes, you can rename any file directly in Image Management.

 

Also, you can Stack using any images from any mode, aka Plan, Autorun, Live.  You can Stack and create Master calibration images which are saved into a new area called “Stacked” and automatically have the word “Master” included in their file name.  You can reuse any Masters saved.  Masters can be created from just one image, like you would have from Live Stacking, or from multiple subs like you would have from Autorun.

 

When stacking Lights, you can include multiple subs from Autorun, or a single ‘Master’ from Live, or any previously created Master.  If using multiple subs, a Master of that type will be automatically created and saved into the new file folder structure.

 

Additionally you can then do rudimentary image processing like adjusting the histogram, crop/rotate, and adjust brightness, contrast, saturation.  This image can then be Shared with the new Community, Shared Albums, or any extensions you have installed in your devices ‘Sharing’ feature (aka, Airdrop, Messaging, Mail, etc).  This includes either JPG or FITs.  This image can also be saved to your devices photo album and is shared/saved as a full resolution image (not half resolution)

 

[steveincolo]

In the latest Beta, yes, you can rename any file directly in Image Management.

 

Also, you can Stack using any images from any mode, aka Plan, Autorun, Live.  You can Stack and create Master calibration images which are saved into a new area called “Stacked” and automatically have the word “Master” included in their file name.  You can reuse any Masters saved.  Masters can be created from just one image, like you would have from Live Stacking, or from multiple subs like you would have from Autorun.

 

When stacking Lights, you can include multiple subs from Autorun, or a single ‘Master’ from Live, or any previously created Master.  If using multiple subs, a Master of that type will be automatically created and saved into the new file folder structure.

 

Additionally you can then do rudimentary image processing like adjusting the histogram, crop/rotate, and adjust brightness, contrast, saturation.  This image can then be Shared with the new Community, Shared Albums, or any extensions you have installed in your devices ‘Sharing’ feature (aka, Airdrop, Messaging, Mail, etc).  This includes either JPG or FITs.  This image can also be saved to your devices photo album and is shared/saved as a full resolution image (not half resolution)

 

As described, these new processing features sound like post-processing and outside the scope of this forum.  My requests are for adjustments specifically within Live mode, that are seen real-time and can be saved as seen within Live mode.  
 

Here’s a live view from last night that shows, for example, why a gradient removal feature would be useful. With gradient removal I would be able to stretch more aggressively and show more of the nebulosity.  C6 at 307 mm; Hyperstar v. 4; Optolong l-Pro; ASI533MC bin 1, 5 C, gain 300.  20 sec x 49.  Saved as seen in ASIAir Live mode. 
 

 

Note also that this jpeg was saved as seen in Live mode and is half the 3008x3008 size of the ASI533 sensor, which was operating in bin 1.  When I previously noted this issue, your incorrect response was: “ASIAIR only half sized images.  !?!?!?!? Nonsense.” 

Edited by steveincolo, 14 October 2022 - 02:31 PM.

[alphatripleplus]

Moderator Note:

 

Everyone, let's please keep the discussion here on live stack features or on-the-fly processing at the time of capture, rather than any post-processing tools appropriate for an AP forum discussion. Thanks.

[Darth Riker]

I have a question regarding calibration frames using the ASI294MC Pro (cooled to 0 degrees Celsius) with an ASIAIR Plus (which is similar to the Pro).

 

I have recently come across the information that Bias frames taken at the short 0.001s exposure time should not be used with the 294MC Pro camera (refer to this video https://www.youtube....?v=nl_LQDmkg2o)

 

The video also states that Flat frames should be taken at an exposure of a minimum of 3s (hence the need for good quality dimmable light panel).

 

It then states that a set of Darks should be taken that match the Flat frames (i.e. Flat Darks or Dark Flats) and that these should be integrated with the Flat frame to create a Master Flat (go to 8:56 in the video).

 

So let's say I create a Master Flat, Stack of 20, taken at 3s.

 

Now I already have a Master Dark, Stack of 20, taken at 3s which I will use as my Flat Dark/Dark Flat.

 

I also have a Master Dark, Stack of 20, taken at 10s - which is the one I'm going to use to match my Light frames.

 

My question: How would I do this when Live Stacking in the AAP? Is it possible to select the 3s Master Dark - i.e. my Flat Dark/Dark Flat - in the Bias setting so that it gets integrated correctly with the 3s Master Flat and also select the 10s Master Dark as my Dark frame to match the Light frame?

Edited by Darth Riker, 02 June 2023 - 08:32 AM.

[dave85374]

You put the bias master OR the dark flat/flat dark in the Bias folder and just select the one you want to use.

 

When I had my 294, I just used a bias master made @ .001 and had no problem.  You can look at my gallery under the 294 to see the results.

 

I originally made my flats at 2 seconds until I read about making them at 5 seconds and I liked the ones made at 5 seconds better.

[Darth Riker]

Thanks.

I have been using .001s Master Bias.

I'll test it out when I get the chance to see if there's any difference compared to using dark flat/flat dark when Live Stacking.

[Meies]

Note also that this jpeg was saved as seen in Live mode and is half the 3008x3008 size of the ASI533 sensor, which was operating in bin 1.  When I previously noted this issue, your incorrect response was: “ASIAIR only half sized images.  !?!?!?!? Nonsense.” 

 

This is a recurring controversy, and while I don't doubt anyone's actual experience, both sides are convinced they are right. I wonder if there is a setting somewhere that people have set differently.

 

I upload all my EAA images directly from the phone I use to control the AA+ to astrobin. They all save there with the full resolution of the camera. Images from my ASI2600MC, for example, are saved at 6248x4176. I upload these images from the phone (/internal storage/Pictures/ASIAIR/Live_jpeg....jpg), not from the AA+ eMMC. And if I use the app to open any of the fit files stored in eMMC/Live/Light/(target)/Stacked...fit, they also report the full camera resolution.

 

Running ASIAIR Plus 2.1 (10.74) on a Galaxy S21.

 

Steve, just noted the date of your post. Hopefully it's been resolved by now and this is old news.

[steveincolo]

This is a recurring controversy, and while I don't doubt anyone's actual experience, both sides are convinced they are right. I wonder if there is a setting somewhere that people have set differently.

 

I upload all my EAA images directly from the phone I use to control the AA+ to astrobin. They all save there with the full resolution of the camera. Images from my ASI2600MC, for example, are saved at 6248x4176. I upload these images from the phone (/internal storage/Pictures/ASIAIR/Live_jpeg....jpg), not from the AA+ eMMC. And if I use the app to open any of the fit files stored in eMMC/Live/Light/(target)/Stacked...fit, they also report the full camera resolution.

 

Running ASIAIR Plus 2.1 (10.74) on a Galaxy S21.

 

Steve, just noted the date of your post. Hopefully it's been resolved by now and this is old news.

 It may well be that ZWO has fixed the problem.  I listed this as one of the enhancements ZWO should make to Live view on a post in the ZWO forum, which ZWO responded to.  But I’m certainly not the only person who reported the problem. 

[steveincolo]

 It may well be that ZWO has fixed the problem.  I listed this as one of the enhancements ZWO should make to Live view on a post in the ZWO forum, which ZWO responded to.  But I’m certainly not the only person who reported the problem. 

Reporting back - I’m happy to say that the save function now works at full resolution!

[RoscoeD]

Creating calibration masters in ASIAIR for use with Live Mode is very easy.

 

In the briefest terms, you simply go into ASIAIR Live Mode, and using the configuration menu, select the type, number of subs, and sub exposure length.  ASIAIR will then automatically shoot, stack, and save the Master on to it’s file storage.  When using Live Mode to shoot, stack, and view Lights, the same configuration menu will allow you to select any Masters you have previously saved to use for calibration.

After setting all three cal frame parameters (darks, flats, biases), I assume you then select "save" and then the execute (big white button).  I tried this for the first time last night at an outreach event and my issue was that it just started shooting without telling which of the three it was doing.  Looking back on it I could have guessed by the duration of the the shot, but I'd like to know ahead of time so I know whether to install a light source or lens cap.  Can I assume Flats, then darks, then bias?  last night I was in a time crunch and got flustered when I discovered I had no clue what it (or I) was doing so I just pressed on without calibration frames.

 

The lower part of the dialog box allows one to check a cal type and select a folder.  It doesn't say this anywhere but I assume this is where previous calibration masters can be selected?.

 

Different topic, but mine did not focus (I have an EAF) nor did it guide.  What did I do wrong? (Plans guide and focus automatically....I just assumed they would live as well)

 

Thanks!

[Darth Riker]

After setting all three cal frame parameters (darks, flats, biases), I assume you then select "save" and then the execute (big white button).  I tried this for the first time last night at an outreach event and my issue was that it just started shooting without telling which of the three it was doing.  Looking back on it I could have guessed by the duration of the the shot, but I'd like to know ahead of time so I know whether to install a light source or lens cap.  Can I assume Flats, then darks, then bias?  last night I was in a time crunch and got flustered when I discovered I had no clue what it (or I) was doing so I just pressed on without calibration frames.

 

The lower part of the dialog box allows one to check a cal type and select a folder.  It doesn't say this anywhere but I assume this is where previous calibration masters can be selected?.

 

Different topic, but mine did not focus (I have an EAF) nor did it guide.  What did I do wrong? (Plans guide and focus automatically....I just assumed they would live as well)

 

Thanks!

You should link to the thread you created so people can post there to help you rather than posting in two locations.

Here's the link: https://www.cloudyni...tacking-issues/