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Ts 152mm f5.9 widefield extravaganza

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#1 jag767

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 09:36 AM

Well, I've been wanting to get into the land of a 6" refractor for a while now, and really had planned on a 140sd, but as financially thats not going to be an option for a while, the Ts152mm f5.9 started looking pretty good, particularly since I tend to always observe at low mag, and I really just want it for Dso's in my light polluted neck of the woods. After reading a lot of first hand experiences on these, it seems like it'll fit the bill just fine. Just ordered today, so not sure when it'll get here with all thats going on in the world!
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#2 j.gardavsky

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 09:54 AM

Looking forward to your first light report,

JG


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#3 Schurke

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 02:47 PM

That one is on my wanted list as well. Very good price for 6 inches. Sure its an achromat but for nebulae and galaxies it will be just fine.

I had a chance to look through one at a star party last year. The view of M17 was the most impressive thing i saw that evening.

Edited by Schurke, 23 April 2020 - 02:55 PM.

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#4 jag767

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 03:45 PM

That one is on my wanted list as well. Very good price for 6 inches. Sure its an achromat but for nebulae and galaxies it will be just fine.

I had a chance to look through one at a star party last year. The view of M17 was the most impressive thing i saw that evening.


Thats entirely my plan. With my 40mm or 30mm for hunting out stuff that's hard to see in my 102.

#5 Jeff B

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 04:08 PM

Congrats!  You'll love it.  waytogo.gif

 

"Sure its an achromat but for nebulae and galaxies it will be just fine."  So how come 8 out of 10 people here don't understand that?    hmm.gif 

 

Oh, that's right...because they have never actually looked through one.  Sorry, forgot. foreheadslap.gif

 

Now, with say a Denk II viewer at its lowest power setting of 1.3X, with a pair of nice 24mm, 65-68 AFOV eyepieces, you'll still get ~1.4 degrees of real filed of view.   I'm just saying....

 

grin.gif

 

Jeff


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#6 jag767

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 04:53 PM

True. I've come to the realization that while I much prefer refractors, it's so light pulluted where I am, I need to get more aperture to see anything to write home about. At very low powers, from what I gather the difference from achro to apo isn't going to play a very large role.
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#7 SeattleScott

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 05:47 PM

I had a 100ED and AR102 side by side. I couldn’t see any noticeable difference in DSO save for Pleiades until I exceeded 100x.

I have a 6” F8 refractor. While I don’t have a 6” Apo to compare to, the views are sharp up to 150x. I prefer the views of open clusters in the 6” achro over my 8” F4 newt. Stars just look prettier in the refractor, and it has enough light grasp to compete with the newt. That being said the newt is smaller, easier to mount and plays better with a camera. But the 6” refractor definitely looks more majestic.
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#8 Tyson M

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 05:53 PM

Well, I've been wanting to get into the land of a 6" refractor for a while now, and really had planned on a 140sd, but as financially thats not going to be an option for a while, the Ts152mm f5.9 started looking pretty good, particularly since I tend to always observe at low mag, and I really just want it for Dso's in my light polluted neck of the woods. After reading a lot of first hand experiences on these, it seems like it'll fit the bill just fine. Just ordered today, so not sure when it'll get here with all thats going on in the world!


The scope is fantastic for deep sky. Well worth the money. Comes with a nice carrying handle and focuser
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#9 jag767

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 06:55 PM

I had a 100ED and AR102 side by side. I couldn’t see any noticeable difference in DSO save for Pleiades until I exceeded 100x.

I have a 6” F8 refractor. While I don’t have a 6” Apo to compare to, the views are sharp up to 150x. I prefer the views of open clusters in the 6” achro over my 8” F4 newt. Stars just look prettier in the refractor, and it has enough light grasp to compete with the newt. That being said the newt is smaller, easier to mount and plays better with a camera. But the 6” refractor definitely looks more majestic.


Good to know it'll do the trick!

#10 kmparsons

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 09:45 PM

I read a review of this scope a few years ago and someone complained that they saw a lot of color when they looked at Sirius. The reply was "Don't look at Sirius." Yep. If this scope is used to do what it is designed to do, then it will give deeply satisfying views. Orion has a very nice 24 mm "Edge On" 2" eyepiece that I have been enjoying. It should be great with this scope. 


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#11 Don Taylor

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Posted 23 April 2020 - 10:02 PM

I have the KUO 152mm F5.9 and its a very enjoyable scope for me. Took it to the TSP (in 2014 I think) - in fact it was the only scope I took that year along with the Duo-T (or Sky-T) altazimuth mount.  Cruising along the Milky Way was fabulous as were Omega Centauri and Centaurus A.  Mine was acquired 2nd hand from a CN'er but it was first sold by Hands-On Optics and is fitted with the Stellarview R&P focuser.

 

I posted an observing report here in the refractor forum after TSP. I can find it and link it if you have not seen it.

 

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.


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#12 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 05:46 AM

I have the KUO 152mm F5.9 and its a very enjoyable scope for me. Took it to the TSP (in 2014 I think) - in fact it was the only scope I took that year along with the Duo-T (or Sky-T) altazimuth mount. Cruising along the Milky Way was fabulous as were Omega Centauri and Centaurus A. Mine was acquired 2nd hand from a CN'er but it was first sold by Hands-On Optics and is fitted with the Stellarview R&P focuser.

I posted an observing report here in the refractor forum after TSP. I can find it and link it if you have not seen it.

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.


Yep pretty sure I read it. Looks like it's gotten lighter, grew a longer dewshield, and switched to a 2.5" r&p focuser (which I have on my f11ed and it's really fantastic). My initial plan is to try it without the Baader filter I have read so much about, since with the low mags I plan on using and the targets I want it for I'm not sure I will need it. As far as mounting it, I'm confident my mount head will do, but I may have to upgrade the tripod in the future.

#13 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 06:11 AM

I read a review of this scope a few years ago and someone complained that they saw a lot of color when they looked at Sirius. The reply was "Don't look at Sirius." Yep. If this scope is used to do what it is designed to do, then it will give deeply satisfying views. Orion has a very nice 24 mm "Edge On" 2" eyepiece that I have been enjoying. It should be great with this scope.


I have read varied responses on the topic of color, and I'm inclined to believe they are all true, as this seems to vary greatly by individual. I can say two things for certain. I will never go over 100x magnification with it (not a fan of high power on a manual mount), and feel that I'm not particularly sensitive to color to begin with. Spherical error is not my favorite, but I've read several times its not terrible on this guy. I guess I'll see soon enough.

As far as eyepieces, I'm slowly transitioning to all the ES 100° eps, although I will keep my maxvision 40mm 68°, ES 30mm 82°, and ES 9mm 120° (pure gold). I just picked up the 14mm 100°, next will be the 25mm.
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#14 RadioAstronomer

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 06:20 AM

This topic is tempting me. I did not know about this scope and now I'm considering getting one. However I'm very satisfied with my ES 6" Maksutov-Newtonian and its refraactor-like images with no CA.


Edited by RadioAstronomer, 24 April 2020 - 06:22 AM.

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#15 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 06:28 AM

This topic is tempting me. I did not know about this scope and now I'm considering getting one. However I'm very satisfied with my ES 6" Maksutov-Newtonian and its refraactor-like images with no CA.


Hmmm now thats an interesting shootout. The TS is going to be brighter, and stars will have the refractor effect, but the ES will have zero color. With the Baader filter I see many with this scope pick up, the refractor may even do a better job on planets, very hard to say.

#16 SeattleScott

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 09:46 AM

The Mak will win on planets unless collimation is out of whack.

The 6” achro will go a little deeper like you say. Also my R200 has roughly the same size CO as the ES Mak Newt. Maybe slightly larger. It puts up great views of open clusters but the 6” refractor is better. People talk about refractor-like stars a lot, but so far the only scopes I have seen that can produce them are refractors, or large Dobs where CO is down around 20% with premium optics. Maybe an Intes Nak Newt with their small CO.

I did a shootout with my 6” F8 and a buddy’s 6” F5 newt, which has surprisingly good optics for a cheap scope. It wasn’t much of a contest. On DSO the refractor had brighter, clearer views. My buddy described it as a night and day difference. That feels like an exaggeration, but it was obvious which scope provided better DSO views. And not just open clusters.

Scott
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#17 Jeff B

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 09:47 AM

The only issue with equal aperture MN's and refractors at low power is image brightness.  The achromat will be brighter and there is something magical for me about a big fully illuminated field of view, something which a well made refractor should have in spades.  The fully illuminated FOV's in a MN are very small, maybe a hand full of mm, like 4-5...maybe.  This can lead to field darkening towards the field stops of wide AFOV eyepieces.  Trust me, I've done side-by-side comparisons.   

 

Jag, you will completely enjoy your scope.  Here is an ATM build I did with a rescued 152mm F6.5 lens and cell.  It came out very well and the low power views are stunning with a good, well corrected, flat field eyepiece. 

 

  https://www.cloudyni...omat-ota-build/

 

Jeff


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#18 Jon_Doh

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 09:51 AM

The refractor has gotten some good reviews.  It's well built and has better than average glass for an achro and shows less CA than your average achro.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised once your complimentary clouds disapear and you get it out.


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#19 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 11:33 AM

Thanks guys, I'm thoroughly looking forward to it! Just got tracking info, no telling how long it'll take to get here under current conditions.

#20 daquad

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 01:49 PM

Thanks guys, I'm thoroughly looking forward to it! Just got tracking info, no telling how long it'll take to get here under current conditions.

I think you will enjoy the TS 152 f/5.9 if you use it mainly for its intended purpose, namely, rich field.  I own the Altair red version and find it to be very well built (typical Kunming quality).  Its CA is what you would expect from such a short focal length 6" achromat, as its theoretical color blur is 9 times the size of the Airy disc.  As a DSO scope it really delivers.  With my UO Mk 80 32 mm Koenig I get a 3 degree field at 28X.  The view of open and globular clusters seen in the context of their surroundings is almost magical.
 
I do use it at high power for lunar stopped down to 80 mm and it performs exactly like an 80 mm f/11.25 achromat, a slight blue fringe at the lunar limb, but shadows are black.  I can use it at high power at full aperture for double stars, because the Airy discs are textbook perfect, but the star colors are not true.  I split 52 Orionis (sep. 1.1") quite easily with black sky between the components, as any 6" aperture should be able to do.  So it's a pretty good double star scope if you are not too fussy about color rendition.
 
At full aperture the moon looks very sharp, but lunar shadows show that purple hue, which I am sure reduces the contrast.  But the lunar features that have high contrast don't seem to be affected that much.  Haven't tried it on Jupiter/Saturn/Mars yet at full aperture; I am not expecting much, unless I use it with the appropriate filters, but even then I am not getting my hopes up that it will perform any better than a smaller aperture as far as revealing low contrast features.  For those targets I use my old 4" f/15.5 Jaegers.

 

Dom Q.

 

 
 


Edited by daquad, 24 April 2020 - 01:51 PM.

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#21 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 02:21 PM

I think you will enjoy the TS 152 f/5.9 if you use it mainly for its intended purpose, namely, rich field. I own the Altair red version and find it to be very well built (typical Kunming quality). Its CA is what you would expect from such a short focal length 6" achromat, as its theoretical color blur is 9 times the size of the Airy disc. As a DSO scope it really delivers. With my UO Mk 80 32 mm Koenig I get a 3 degree field at 28X. The view of open and globular clusters seen in the context of their surroundings is almost magical.

I do use it at high power for lunar stopped down to 80 mm and it performs exactly like an 80 mm f/11.25 achromat, a slight blue fringe at the lunar limb, but shadows are black. I can use it at high power at full aperture for double stars, because the Airy discs are textbook perfect, but the star colors are not true. I split 52 Orionis (sep. 1.1") quite easily with black sky between the components, as any 6" aperture should be able to do. So it's a pretty good double star scope if you are not too fussy about color rendition.

At full aperture the moon looks very sharp, but lunar shadows show that purple hue, which I am sure reduces the contrast. But the lunar features that have high contrast don't seem to be affected that much. Haven't tried it on Jupiter/Saturn/Mars yet at full aperture; I am not expecting much, unless I use it with the appropriate filters, but even then I am not getting my hopes up that it will perform any better than a smaller aperture as far as revealing low contrast features. For those targets I use my old 4" f/15.5 Jaegers.

Dom Q.



Yup, same plan but with my 102mm f11ed. Also, this lets me see what a 6" refractor will show me where I am. If its not encouraging, not much sense in eventually going to a 6" apo, I'll just stick with this then.

#22 daquad

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 06:34 PM

Yup, same plan but with my 102mm f11ed. Also, this lets me see what a 6" refractor will show me where I am. If its not encouraging, not much sense in eventually going to a 6" apo, I'll just stick with this then.

OK, but don't judge what you see on planetary to decide on APO or not.  No way it can compete with an APO or even a 6" f/15 achromat for those targets.  

 

Dom Q.



#23 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 06:47 PM

OK, but don't judge what you see on planetary to decide on APO or not. No way it can compete with an APO or even a 6" f/15 achromat for those targets.

Dom Q.


Dont even plan to aim it at a planet.
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#24 Jeff B

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 08:19 PM

Dont even plan to aim it at a planet.

Awe come on now.  Be honest.  You know you're gonna do that just to see what it's like.  grin.gif


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#25 jag767

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Posted 24 April 2020 - 08:25 PM

Awe come on now. Be honest. You know you're gonna do that just to see what it's like. grin.gif


I did say I don't plan on it, not I'm going to, didn't I? Lol.


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