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William Optics Zenithstar 61 / Flat61A Optical Tilt?

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#26 Kevin_A

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 06:40 AM

Update on my tilt issue... found another issue that may have been contributing the issues I was having.... the focuser wasn't actually mounted to the drawtube firmly... it was slightly loose from the factory and I noticed it moved sideways when I rotated the focusing knobs yesterday. It is tight now and I am going to re-test now when the clouds clear. 



#27 DarrenW

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:45 PM

Update on my tilt issue... found another issue that may have been contributing the issues I was having.... the focuser wasn't actually mounted to the drawtube firmly... it was slightly loose from the factory and I noticed it moved sideways when I rotated the focusing knobs yesterday. It is tight now and I am going to re-test now when the clouds clear. 

Any updates? I too appear to be having issues with tilt on the Z61 with a Flat61R reducer.  I just received the reducer a week ago direct from WO.  When I rotate the camera using the reducer the problem stays in the same area.  I own the Flat61a but since I have a GT71 with a reducer it kind of defeats the purpose of having a Z61.

rotated z61tilit
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rotated z61tilit


#28 feygan

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Posted 18 October 2020 - 12:50 PM

I will receive my warranted ZS61 and will do some tests as soon as the clouds allow me. I'll keep you posted with my results 


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#29 Kevin_A

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Posted 20 October 2020 - 07:42 AM

My original copy was deemed bad after rigorous testing and WO agreed.

William Optics are a great company to deal with and really stand behind their product.

I just received a replacement scope from my vendor.... so as usua,l with a new scope the clouds quickly appeared as well.

Maybe tomorrow night I will get some results. 


Edited by Kevin_A, 20 October 2020 - 07:43 AM.

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#30 NJ3A

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Posted 14 March 2021 - 07:51 PM

I know this is an old thread, but I'm just getting into AP and have a similar experience...ZS 61 II, WO Flattener with egg around the outside.  Guidance would be appreciated.  I hate shooting in the dark (pun intended), I'd love to get some great suggestions where to look first or suggestion on what to do next.  FYI, My plan is to give it a go without the flattener and evaluate the results.   Here's an example.  I know this is not any special photo, just evaluating the EGGS...  Gotta start somewhere.  Is this out of focus? 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • SH248 2021-03-14, 14x180L, EQMod Mount, ZWO ASI294MC Pro  _stacked.jpg


#31 feygan

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 05:15 AM

I know this is an old thread, but I'm just getting into AP and have a similar experience...ZS 61 II, WO Flattener with egg around the outside.  Guidance would be appreciated.  I hate shooting in the dark (pun intended), I'd love to get some great suggestions where to look first or suggestion on what to do next.  FYI, My plan is to give it a go without the flattener and evaluate the results.   Here's an example.  I know this is not any special photo, just evaluating the EGGS...  Gotta start somewhere.  Is this out of focus? 

Doesn't seem to be out of focus. To clear out any focusing issues, just use the built-in bahtinov mask to achieve perfect focus.

 

However, the ZS II is unusable without a proper field flattener



#32 Kevin_A

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Posted 16 March 2021 - 10:11 PM

I know this is an old thread, but I'm just getting into AP and have a similar experience...ZS 61 II, WO Flattener with egg around the outside.  Guidance would be appreciated.  I hate shooting in the dark (pun intended), I'd love to get some great suggestions where to look first or suggestion on what to do next.  FYI, My plan is to give it a go without the flattener and evaluate the results.   Here's an example.  I know this is not any special photo, just evaluating the EGGS...  Gotta start somewhere.  Is this out of focus? 

Your back spacing is off. The sensor is slightly too close to the flattener. 



#33 trycatchfinally

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 02:24 AM

My original copy was deemed bad after rigorous testing and WO agreed.
William Optics are a great company to deal with and really stand behind their product.
I just received a replacement scope from my vendor.... so as usua,l with a new scope the clouds quickly appeared as well.
Maybe tomorrow night I will get some results.

Hi Kevin_A,

I was wondering if you were able to sort out your z61 issues? Im interested in getting a Z61 ii.

Thanks

Edited by trycatchfinally, 08 April 2021 - 02:25 AM.


#34 feygan

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:02 AM

Hi Kevin_A,

I was wondering if you were able to sort out your z61 issues? Im interested in getting a Z61 ii.

Thanks

 

Hey,

 

I sent my ZS61 back for warranty and they sent me back a ZS61 II. I still have the same issue but maybe it's not that pronounced or I got used to it. I suspect the scope is fine and the flattener is actually the bad guy.

 

I'm quite happy with the scope itself tho. I need to try with a different flattener at some point



#35 Kevin_A

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:04 AM

My replacement scope has pinched optics when cold and signs of coma.  WO isnt returning my email now.... hope that answers your question!


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#36 trycatchfinally

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 08:19 AM

Hey,

I sent my ZS61 back for warranty and they sent me back a ZS61 II. I still have the same issue but maybe it's not that pronounced or I got used to it. I suspect the scope is fine and the flattener is actually the bad guy.

I'm quite happy with the scope itself tho. I need to try with a different flattener at some point


I see, I'm interested in getting a Z61ii to be used on a SkyGuider pro (for now, I'm planning to get a bigger mount sometime down the road).

I'm a newbie and I'm not very familiar with the issues mentioned. So are these issues like "pinched optics" or tilted optics affect the corners only? I'm planning to use an APSC 1.5x cropfactor camera then an asi294mc pro camera. Will I notice these issues with those cameras?

Thank you

#37 trycatchfinally

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 08:32 AM

My replacement scope has pinched optics when cold and signs of coma. WO isnt returning my email now.... hope that answers your question!


Hi,

May I ask where would you see the "coma" and what kind of a camera do you use?

I was able to get some test shots from my friend's Z61ii + wo flat61a and using a 1.5x apsc camera and I don't think I know enough if something is wrong with it, I'm easily impressed I reckon.

 

Here is a test shot from a friend's z61 ii using an Xt2, skyguider pro, 60seconds unguided, I was wondering if you can tell me if there's something wrong with it? If it has any of the issues being discussed?

 

https://drive.google...ew?usp=drivesdk

 

Thank you!


Edited by trycatchfinally, 08 April 2021 - 08:44 AM.


#38 Kevin_A

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 10:18 AM

Hi,

May I ask where would you see the "coma" and what kind of a camera do you use?

I was able to get some test shots from my friend's Z61ii + wo flat61a and using a 1.5x apsc camera and I don't think I know enough if something is wrong with it, I'm easily impressed I reckon.

 

Here is a test shot from a friend's z61 ii using an Xt2, skyguider pro, 60seconds unguided, I was wondering if you can tell me if there's something wrong with it? If it has any of the issues being discussed?

 

https://drive.google...ew?usp=drivesdk

 

Thank you!

I looked at the image and no pinching at all. The stars on the left far side are slightly egg shaped but that may be due to less than perfect guiding as the center ones are slightly un-round too. It is much better than mine and does not show any noticeable signs of coma like mine does.  Since it is a doublet it will always have a slight blue halo around stars but that can corrected in post processing easily. I used 3 different cameras to test with... nikon d5300, z6 and z7 with both 61a and 61r field flatteners. I would say he has a good copy and it would be even better if it were guided. Hope this helps.


Edited by Kevin_A, 08 April 2021 - 10:20 AM.


#39 trycatchfinally

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 02:54 PM

I looked at the image and no pinching at all. The stars on the left far side are slightly egg shaped but that may be due to less than perfect guiding as the center ones are slightly un-round too. It is much better than mine and does not show any noticeable signs of coma like mine does. Since it is a doublet it will always have a slight blue halo around stars but that can corrected in post processing easily. I used 3 different cameras to test with... nikon d5300, z6 and z7 with both 61a and 61r field flatteners. I would say he has a good copy and it would be even better if it were guided. Hope this helps.


Hi Kevin_A,

That is very helpful! So it seems that there are copies that could have some issues... I was wondering if I can expect the same QC issues with the redcat?

thank you!

#40 feygan

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 03:08 PM

Hi Kevin_A,

That is very helpful! So it seems that there are copies that could have some issues... I was wondering if I can expect the same QC issues with the redcat?

thank you!

I have seen people very happy with their scopes and people very angry. 

 

I've tried to communicate with William Optics but their support team is very very uncommunicative. Took me about 1 year to get a replacement for my scope and even now the problem is not yet fully fixed. 

 

I probably won't buy any WO scopes soon, given the low trust I have with this company. However people seem to be very happy about their ZS and Redcats.

 

Their CNC products, like the iOptron base are very sturdy and well made. They probably messed something up with the ZS production line.


Edited by feygan, 08 April 2021 - 03:09 PM.

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#41 trycatchfinally

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 07:51 PM

I have seen people very happy with their scopes and people very angry.

I've tried to communicate with William Optics but their support team is very very uncommunicative. Took me about 1 year to get a replacement for my scope and even now the problem is not yet fully fixed.

I probably won't buy any WO scopes soon, given the low trust I have with this company. However people seem to be very happy about their ZS and Redcats.

Their CNC products, like the iOptron base are very sturdy and well made. They probably messed something up with the ZS production line.


Hi Feygan,

I'm sorry to hear that. Now it makes me wonder if I should get a refractor from them. I do have the skyguiderpro base and I agree it's very well built.

I might need to look for other options.

Thanks

#42 Kevin_A

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Posted 08 April 2021 - 09:20 PM

I think WO products generally are very well built and maybe it is a question of expectation vs price point. Everything about my scope including the mounting and build quality is top notch but the z61 seems to have a few issues with the lens cell from what i am seeing. My second replacement just seems to have a very tight lens cell even when the collimation screws are not even tightened. I would give the product rave reviews if i could actually fix it myself.... but if the screws arent touching and i still have 4 pinched spikes then I cant fix that. They disappear only when applying 4 dew strips around the cell and tube... in warm weather. Haha maybe i should start imaging in the tropics!


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#43 trycatchfinally

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Posted Today, 03:22 AM

I think WO products generally are very well built and maybe it is a question of expectation vs price point. Everything about my scope including the mounting and build quality is top notch but the z61 seems to have a few issues with the lens cell from what i am seeing. My second replacement just seems to have a very tight lens cell even when the collimation screws are not even tightened. I would give the product rave reviews if i could actually fix it myself.... but if the screws arent touching and i still have 4 pinched spikes then I cant fix that. They disappear only when applying 4 dew strips around the cell and tube... in warm weather. Haha maybe i should start imaging in the tropics!

Hi,

 

So I did end up getting a Z61 ii.  I'm not too happy about the corners, especially when comparing my image from my friend's Z61 ii.  

 

 

Here is an example sub exposure at 60 seconds, guided:  https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

On the bottom left and right I can see some weird star shapes, I have tried different backspace settings and I still get some weird shapes.  

 

Can you please advice what is wrong with it and what I need to do to get rounder stars on the corners?

 

Thank you



#44 Kevin_A

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Posted Today, 06:11 PM

Hi,

 

So I did end up getting a Z61 ii.  I'm not too happy about the corners, especially when comparing my image from my friend's Z61 ii.  

 

 

Here is an example sub exposure at 60 seconds, guided:  https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

 

On the bottom left and right I can see some weird star shapes, I have tried different backspace settings and I still get some weird shapes.  

 

Can you please advice what is wrong with it and what I need to do to get rounder stars on the corners?

 

Thank you

Looks like mine, but mine is worse! First you need to make sure your focuser tube is not sagging in the main body tube as if it is up/down tilt then that is the first place to check. There are set screws on the top and your focuser needs to be snug as well. Mine came very loose. Which flattener did you get? I have a solution for the 61r but not yet for the 61a flattener, as my 1mm gap was not even in all areas around its circumference when the threads were tightened up.... i have a m54 x 1mm thick spacer on order to make this even.



#45 trycatchfinally

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Posted Today, 06:34 PM

Looks like mine, but mine is worse! First you need to make sure your focuser tube is not sagging in the main body tube as if it is up/down tilt then that is the first place to check. There are set screws on the top and your focuser needs to be snug as well. Mine came very loose. Which flattener did you get? I have a solution for the 61r but not yet for the 61a flattener, as my 1mm gap was not even in all areas around its circumference when the threads were tightened up.... i have a m54 x 1mm thick spacer on order to make this even.


Hi,

Which screws would help if there is a focuser sag? There is a "tensioner" flat screw at the bottom, and to allen screws (manual says not to adjust those) and I have one dial on the top that seems to be a focus tensioner as well? My focusing dials are oriented to the lower part of the scope closer to the docetail.

I'm using the Flat 61a and an XT3 camera. I do plan in getting the Flat61r too (I'm curious to know what's the fix for the R version too!)

Thank you!


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