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Project: Cinder Block Pier

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#1 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:36 AM

Hey all,

 

I decided to add a 2nd pier to the property next to my observatory that already has a large pier and all that inside it. But I didn't want to do the back breaking effort my original pier was (1300lbs of concrete...). This time I wanted to keep it simple, minimal hardware, minimal material, inexpensive stuff, but still an imaging class pier if I ever wanted it to be. Also important is the ability to remove the pier should I change my mind later or simply need it gone. My original pier is forever, I can't move that thing ever, and breaking it down would take a lot of work and a tractor and a jack hammer probably. This pier, well, can be taken down with a sledge hammer to the grass line in two swings probably. So, like many folk, I looked to the wooden pier idea with a bunch of 4x4's but didn't want to fool with leveling plates. Then I looked to steel piers and that was too costly for this project. Finally, there's plenty of images out there of block piers, large and small. I saw a few rather simple cinder block piers that were bolted to an anchor block of concrete and all this other stuff. I wanted to go even more simple. So, cinder blocks was a go! But, I didn't want to do a bunch of work and drilling, so I didn't want to bolt the blocks together, when construction adhesive will bond it and be stronger than the concrete itself. I used paper and traced my mount head's base and where the threaded screw holes are and drilled appropriate holes in the block to allow it to be secured. Overall, it was a very easy project. I documented the whole thing. It's inexpensive and really sturdy. It may not look classy, but it's functional and can be removed. Also, no warping like timber will.

 

I took about 3 days to complete the project, each day was a day of something curing for 24 hours basically until the 3rd day which was painting and then it was ready for use.

 

Back story: My Twilight 1 mount has been great for small scopes, but my 120mm F8.3 refractor crippled it to its knees. Couldn't handle the scope. I tried other mods, didn't really do the job. Ultimately, it was the tripod and the connection to the tripod mostly and then a little bracing of the arm that made the difference. I wanted to use my Twilight 1 head if I could on this cinder block pier to see if I could get very last drop of use out of the mount head, before having to buy another mount (I have too many as it is) to be able to handle 120mm class refractors that are longer. I had nothing to go off, other than just doing it and see the results. But, ultimately, it worked out. So this is the result. Any mount head could be used, it doesn't change how it's attached to the cinder block really, I just happened to use a Twilight 1 alt-az head here. I wanted to use an EQ5 head, but didn't want to buy that either.

 

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Time: 3 days to complete

Labor: You can do it yourself without help most likely

Cost: Around $100 USD from Lowes for all the stuff and mounting hardware and things needed (could obviously be cheaper if you already have some stuff)

 

Materials and tools:

 

Quickcrete Fast-Setting Concrete Mix (50lb bag) No mixing needed! I used 4 of these for a 200lb footer. $7 per bag. Why this stuff? again, no mixing needed. No pouring. Nada. Just dump this stuff in a hole, pour some water on it and walk away. It's that simple. It's meant for fast post-hole setting. A pier is a big post, so... I about died doing my last pier mixing and pouring 1300lbs by hand... not again!

 

Cinder Blocks, they were $1.22 each. I used 4 and a half of them for this project for the height I wanted. They're standard 8x8x16 blocks.

 

Stainless steel 1/4" threaded bolts and some large 1/4" washers for securement, ran me around $10 total in hardware for these. I took my mount head's base to the store and just tried a few different types, turned out standard 1/4" with typical threading worked fine, it wasn't some fancy metric thing.

 

5/16" Masonry drill bit (and I already had a drill, most of you do too) which was about $7 or so. I wanted the bit to be a little larger than the bolts so that the holes had wiggle room in case they're not straight so that nothing binds up. It worked well this way, no fuss, no messing up.

 

Construction Adhesive, just some basic Loctite for just under $5. I already had a hand pump tool to use it, they're cheap too though if you need one. I only needed one tube, even though I bought two just in case. It doesn't take much of this stuff. I had built some cinder block steps in the past using this stuff with toppers and they're solid years later without any bolts, with several hundred pound people walking on them on the edge and nothing budgets. So this stuff should handle the small weights of telescope stuff. And it does. This adhesive bonds to the concrete and is really strong, it will not let go. If your concrete was going to break, it won't be where this stuff is. I decided against drilling and more bolts because frankly you're just adding stress to the concrete when this adhesive (which you would use anyways with it) already does the job many times over. Drilling bolts may put one's mind at ease, but the adhesive is not going to let go and anywhere the concrete would break would not be saved by the bolts anyways.

 

A shovel or similar to dig your hole. I already had one.

 

A level to get it kind of level. I already had one.

 

White paint (flat white paint just to make it look nicer, cooler to the touch in the sun, and just something to act as a barrier to the elements in general, but mainly just to look nicer than just ordinary cinder blocks in the yard). I already had some paint and a brush, but if you bought it, it would be a sample can's size, so less than $10 even for good stuff.

 

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Results:

 

CinderBlockPier_25.jpg

 

Build Log to Follow....

 

Very best,


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#2 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:42 AM

Build Log

 

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Day One

 

I mowed some grass around my observatory where I wanted this 2nd pier to be. I dug a hole where I wanted it. No measuring, but it was deep enough that I put a 1/2 cinder block in the bottom, filled with quickcrete, then put a full cinder block on that with its top sticking up above the grass line a bit with room to spare around it, so maybe a 20 inch hole, depth wise, and around 15~18 inches across both ways. My goal was just to be able to put 4 bags of 50lb quickcrete in there and call it a day and that's what I did. I had patted the bottom of the hole to be flat so that the blocks would be relatively level and checked it and it was pretty level. I dumped in the quickcrete one bag at a time and added 1 gallon of water to the dusty mess after each bag. No mixing. I placed my cinder block on the bottom 1/2 block and filled around it with quickcrete and some water, again, no mixing.

 

CinderBlockPier_01.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_02.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_03.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_04.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_05.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_06.jpg

 

Very best,


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#3 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:44 AM

Day One continued....

 

I finished filling concrete around the cinder block and left it's top just above the grass line. It was still pretty level, so that was good enough. I left this to cure over night before starting with the next group of blocks.

 

CinderBlockPier_07.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_08.jpg

 

Very best,


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#4 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:48 AM

Day Two

 

On day two, the concrete was cured enough to continue working. Time to stack some cinder blocks. I used the construction adhesive on each block after brushing them clean and kept them dry before hand. Thin layers works best, not gobs of the stuff where the block will slide around. It will set fast. But it needs another 24 hours to cure and the bond is permanent. I did not wait for each block to cure. I just did them all, straighten them up afterwards, and just watched them. They stopped being able to move, so I was done with that, left it to cure till the next day.

 

I also needed to drill my top cinder block to allow my mount's head to attach to it. I used some paper to make a stencil of the threaded holes on the mount and used that to make marks on the block where it would go. I drilled the block gently with a masrony bit a little bigger than my hardware bolts were going to be to allow wiggle room so that if I wasn't straight with the drill it wouldn't matter. Worked out great.

 

CinderBlockPier_10.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_11.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_12.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_13.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_14.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_16.jpg

 

Very best,


Edited by MalVeauX, 28 April 2020 - 12:49 AM.

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#5 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:53 AM

Day Three

 

The pier is done at this point, but I wanted to paint it first. I painted it white with a single thick coat of UV resistant flat white paint. I painted the outside & inside. Just looks nicer at least. I assembled the hardware for mounting the head to the pier and put it into place after the paint dried and tightened it up. I used washer as spacers and to spread the compression out as to not break the concrete. Instead of just a center bolt approach, I used three threaded bolts as noted in the bottom of the mount head. For a larger mount I'd just use the center bolt to save space with really large washers to spread out the compression load on the concrete. Tightened it up. Mounted the head to it after that (Twilight 1 Head) and tested it. I have a TG365 cover that I'll leave on it (already had this; but not needed) between use.

 

CinderBlockPier_18.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_19.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_20.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_23.jpg

 

Very best,


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#6 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:59 AM

Project Complete

 

I've used it and so far it's great. The mount head (Twilight 1) behaves much better on this pier than a tripod and it finally handles my 120mm F8.3 refractor well enough to use it. I wedged the arm on the Twilight 1 with a block of treated lumber and painted it white too. After tightening everything up, I gave it a spin. I looked at the moon and Venus later in the evening with my Lunt 7~21mm eyepiece and took it from low power to 142x magnification and it was surprisingly handling it well. It wasn't shaking and wobbling all over. Pretty solid. Once focused, using the slow motion control produced a smooth steady tracking without bouncing, this was a total surprise as I'm not used to that with this mount with anything large on it.

 

I tested my 120mm F8.3 frac initially as this would be the most difficult. Everything else I use on it will be smaller. I tested my 120mm F5 frac and it of course handles that as if its not there. It handles my 127mm F12 Mak with ease too, again, as if it's not not there, very steady, only small dampening time at high power on this one. It handles my ED80 with HA solar filters, really heavy scope setup, quite nicely too.

 

Overall, very satisfied with the pier. It's way better than a tripod. The mount head works on a different level than it did before and I don't need to buy something just to use my longer bigger fracs visually when I'm not in my observatory with the imaging mount and all that.

 

Here's a video of the mount head's action with a 120mm F8.3 frac loaded on there (YouTube).

 

CinderBlockPier_21.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_22.jpg

 

CinderBlockPier_24.jpg

 

Very best,


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#7 DLuders

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 03:31 AM

You can place pads inside the open cells of the block, and store beverages, eyepieces and other accessories in them while observing.  wink.gif 


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#8 Stanislaus

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 05:39 AM

What a great idea. Cheap, simple but very effective. Thanks for posting.


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#9 mikerepp

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 10:58 AM

Marty, awesome job!  I like DLuders  idea for storage in the open spaces.  You could also clad it with outdoor plywood or vinyl product.   Could even make a lockable compartment if you wanted.  But just as it is its great!   Nice simple build.


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#10 RAKing

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:12 PM

Great idea and a wonderful follow through!

 

I never thought a perpendicular stack of cinderblocks could work so well. Wow!  waytogo.gif 

 

Congrats!

 

Ron


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#11 DSOGabe

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:39 PM

I've seen other similar cinder block and concrete block piers. I thinks its a awesome cost and labor effective option; perfect for a klutz like me. My only question relates to the load capacity. I have a CEM60  and a CGE and a 30 pound scope. Will this kind of pier carry that load? Especially at this kind of height?? Do NOT want to find out the hard way!!


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#12 Stargazer3236

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 12:47 PM

Interesting. I will have to consider this if I choose to build a permanent pier in my backyard!


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#13 OldManSky

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 01:16 PM

I've seen other similar cinder block and concrete block piers. I thinks its a awesome cost and labor effective option; perfect for a klutz like me. My only question relates to the load capacity. I have a CEM60  and a CGE and a 30 pound scope. Will this kind of pier carry that load? Especially at this kind of height?? Do NOT want to find out the hard way!!

Mine with 2 blocks (not 4, like the OP's) carried a CEM60 and 30 pound load without batting an eye.  Very solid and stable.


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#14 junomike

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 01:48 PM

Simple yet effective.  I like it, especially for an Alt/Az set up.


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#15 MalVeauX

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 01:54 PM

Thanks all, bow.gif

 

I'm definitely thinking of adding a little clad armor in the future perhaps, just to hide the cinder blocks. Some painted/stained exterior grade ply or even just some basic treated lumber deck boards could make it more handsome, maybe just over the areas with the open holes. I'll have to clean out the holes all the time anyways, they will literally become bug nests over time in this humid field in Florida. Spiders and wasps guaranteed. Probably will get a bat in there at some point too. Wouldn't be the first time!

 

If I do anything else beyond that, I might build a 2nd one next to it and install a beefier manual mount, like an EQ5. I could also throw one more block or even a 1/2 cinderblock on top of this pier and glue it down too and mount something else on there even higher up. Even at this height, anything refractor wise pointed up high required me to get down to my knees to look through.

 

I went with the height I did on this one specifically for long refractor use of planets at my location (29 degrees, Florida) while standing for fast sessions. Honestly if I wanted to use it full time for all observing, I would have to make it about 2 feet taller!

 

 

I've seen other similar cinder block and concrete block piers. I thinks its a awesome cost and labor effective option; perfect for a klutz like me. My only question relates to the load capacity. I have a CEM60  and a CGE and a 30 pound scope. Will this kind of pier carry that load? Especially at this kind of height?? Do NOT want to find out the hard way!!

Actually most of the stuff we do in astronomy with respect to piers that we make are beyond overkill for the application. Everyone worries about their pier of any material being able to hold their light weight little mounts and tiny telescopes (relative to the actual load capacity of concrete, steel and thick treated lumber). 

 

A cinderblock can take about 120,000 lbs of compression load capacity (which is why so many heavy things are sitting on cinderblocks...). Concrete in general is far beyond what little telescope gear weighs. Houses are set on these things. Capacity of load is not the issue though, that's beyond well handled, its the torque and shear on the anchor(s) in the substrate. The 1/4th inch bolts in the concrete would take around ~800lbs to pull out straight brute force and over well over 1k lbs of force to shear them out out. Even a 50lb mount head with a 40lb telescope load's moment arm would not be sufficient to do that. Still has room to handle any mount that could fit on there.

 

Constructive adhesive bonded to concrete can handle 100+ lbs of horizontal load, vertical load is even stronger, several magnitudes more force to push a bonded concrete block over and have it break the bond of the adhesive and topple. You're more likely to actually break the concrete pushing it over and the adhesive will be intact still holding onto the broken concrete. This is why I didn't bother with bolting the concrete together, it's not necessary for telescope/mount loads even at the height I made this one.

 

waytogo.gif

 

Very best,


Edited by MalVeauX, 28 April 2020 - 03:32 PM.

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#16 DSOGabe

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 03:21 PM

Mine with 2 blocks (not 4, like the OP's) carried a CEM60 and 30 pound load without batting an eye.  Very solid and stable.

What kind of adapter did you use to mount the scope? I was looking at Dan's Pier Plates but I'm concerned that the mounting bolts on those would be too close to the edges of the block.


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#17 mich_al

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Posted 28 April 2020 - 06:44 PM

Something to think about is how brittle block is.  One decent blow (not wind) and a block can disintegrate.


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#18 OldManSky

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Posted 30 April 2020 - 10:55 PM

What kind of adapter did you use to mount the scope? I was looking at Dan's Pier Plates but I'm concerned that the mounting bolts on those would be too close to the edges of the block.

I made my own, for both the CEM25 and CEM60. Scrap yard 1/2” aluminum, a drill press, and tap is all it takes.


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#19 PETER DREW

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Posted 01 May 2020 - 04:39 AM

These piers are commonly known as "Todmorden" piers in the UK as they originated years ago at the Astronomy Centre near Todmorden.  We have a dozen similar piers at the Centre performing bases for various instruments, all are free standing.  It's easy to fit a cosmetic cladding for protection or presenting a more aesthetic shape.  <astronomycentre.org.uk>


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#20 speedster

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Posted 01 May 2020 - 02:15 PM

Blocks will be there forever.  Adhesive will fail at some point.  Moisture and temp variations accelerate the failure.  Epoxy thin set grout in lieu of construction adhesive avoids the adhesive failure issue.


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#21 OneGear

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Posted 01 May 2020 - 04:48 PM

Is grout an adhesive or a sealant?



#22 speedster

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Posted 01 May 2020 - 11:10 PM

Grout is an adhesive.  It's graded aggregate, Portland cement, water dispersing agents, and plasticizers.  What's called for in bonding blocks like this is called "thinset".  Bog box stores sell it in small bags.  It is unaffected by water and has the same thermal expansion as the block.  It is typically used to set ceramic tile.  It is cement based rather than being latex or urethane based like common construction adhesives. 


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#23 PETER DREW

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 05:34 AM

I've always bolted mine together after "grinding" the mating faces together.  Needs large, thick washers to avoid cracking the webs. No problems over the years.  


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#24 jcj380

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 07:32 AM

Brilliant!  Cheap and simple.

 

I've been under the impression that the weak link on the TW1 is the arm, even with an arm brace.  Seems that's not the case.  Did you notice any difference with the arm at 45 deg vs. vertical?



#25 CCD-Freak

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Posted 02 May 2020 - 09:10 AM

Here is the link to the Todmorden piers..

 

https://www.cloudyni...todmorden-pier/

 

 

 

John

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