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Celestron CR150 f/8 HD6 ?

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#51 Rutilus

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 05:50 AM

Actually, in my opinion, it is one of the least fun scopes to use one could ask for.

 

See, to use these for anything above the treetops, the mount has to be very tall, or otherwise, you will be sitting on the ground to view, and at zenith, you will be practically laying on the ground. 

 

And when you make the tripod tall enough to avoid having to sit on the ground it becomes very unstable and even focusing will induce very long period oscillations.

 

 

The tripod is the weak link in mounting these scopes. That's why I did away with them and built piers for my scope.

For several years I used my scope on a Vixen GP mount fixed on top of pier. I could easily observe at the zenith while sat

comfortably in a chair without focus shakes. The piers do not have to be expensive, I built all of mine with less than $20 of materials. 


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#52 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 07:46 AM

If it's your dream I say go for it. Equatorial mounts do take a bit of setup. And this is a big scope. That would be things to be aware of.

I have looked through the 6 inch F8 and it was very nice for DSOs. A good amount of chromatic abberration on planets, but still a nice view.

A 120mm F8 scope would probably be better if planets and the Moon were the primary focus. But the 6 inch should give a little boost on dimmer objects.

Although a lot of people discourage these scopes, I think they can be quite nice for the right person.

I watched a video of a little girl...err...petite young lady, setting one of these AVX6 up. She didn't seem to have much problem with it. 

 

I looked at some deluxe model 8" dobs, which I could've just left fully assembled and likely would've been a breeze to set up(except for collimation and cool down time). But couldn't get past looking through the wrong end, along with the particle board and tin can feel. I'm sure the view would've been terrific, other than the spikes around bright stars.

Maybe I'll get a bigger one down the road..One that I could run up close to 500x. Leave it assembled on a hand truck when not in use.


Edited by Echolight, 09 May 2020 - 07:47 AM.


#53 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 07:54 AM

The good thing about these chinese 150mm F/8 achros is that they can be purchased cheaply on the pre-owned market so its quite possible to own one, have some fun with it and get that "big frac" buzz and the move it on without much impact on the wallet.

 

I seem to recall that the ones that I've owned (all pre-owned) cost $200 or less apiece as optical tubes.

I might spend the rest of my life looking to find a good used one for two hundred bucks and then be dead before I did.



#54 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:00 AM

This is the way I have gone with my 6 inch f/8 scopes. Around my neck of the woods I see them going

for less than $200.

I've seen exactly one locally. He was asking $400. I made a 60 mile round trip to go look at it, and when I got there it was gone.

 

If you subtract the cost of the AVX mount on the combo, it's that same $400 for a brand new one.



#55 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:22 AM

A new AVX 6 is on the way. I figure I gave full price for the mount, and $400 for the scope. I think the whole setup is mostly what I wanted for a first telescope in my backyard viewing initiation.

 

Even if the mount isn't big enough, I wanted it for the Goto as my eyes aren't what they used to be. And trying to learn by reading charts in the dark might've been too high a hurdle.

 

Plus the mount is a relatively inexpensive way for me to mount a small scope for dabbling in AP. Along with being perfectly acceptable for anything smaller than the 150 that I might want to try in the future.

 

I'll probably build a bigger mount for the C6R. 


Edited by Echolight, 09 May 2020 - 08:24 AM.

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#56 Jond105

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:34 AM

I would have waited for the HEQ-5 or Sirius Mount like Astrojensen for these as they have a 16” pier extension that would have kept the refractor higher up for you with no fear of running into a tripod, of course I’m late to reading this. 



#57 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:41 AM

The tripod is the weak link in mounting these scopes. That's why I did away with them and built piers for my scope.

For several years I used my scope on a Vixen GP mount fixed on top of pier. I could easily observe at the zenith while sat

comfortably in a chair without focus shakes. The piers do not have to be expensive, I built all of mine with less than $20 of materials. 

My plan is a mobile pier.



#58 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 09:00 AM

I would have waited for the HEQ-5 or Sirius Mount like Astrojensen for these as they have a 16” pier extension that would have kept the refractor higher up for you with no fear of running into a tripod, of course I’m late to reading this. 

My plan is to win the lottery and buy it all.

 

But seriosly, I would love to have a pier extension.

 

The cost would've gone way up..

My setup was $1300. 

$1100 to $1150 for one of those mounts. Plus another $80 to $100 for the pier extension. And I would've had to pay the whole $699 for the new scope. So that's pushing right up on 2k.

 

Can I not add a pier extension to the AVX? Somehow...?

 

 

 


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#59 Jond105

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 09:08 AM

My plan is to win the lottery and buy it all.

 

But seriosly, I would love to have a pier extension.

 

The cost would've gone way up..

My setup was $1300. 

$1100 to $1150 for one of those mounts. Plus another $80 to $100 for the pier extension. And I would've had to pay the whole $699 for the new scope. So that's pushing right up on 2k.

 

Can I not add a pier extension to the AVX? Somehow...?

 

 

 

This is the extension. Some are white. It fits the HEQ, Sirius, Synta EQ-5’s and Eq 3-2. I couldn’t live without it now. Just for future reference. 

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#60 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 10:05 AM

I'll take the other side. I say, resist the temptation. They're cooler to look at than look through. A decent 10" dob with coma corrector will blow it away in almost every department.

One of the four or five reasons that I didn't choose the dob to start with was because I didn't think I'd like looking through the side of the scope. But I will never know until I try.



#61 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 10:18 AM

This is the extension. Some are white. It fits the HEQ, Sirius, Synta EQ-5’s and Eq 3-2. I couldn’t live without it now. Just for future reference. 

Part of the plan with this purchase was to have a mount with Goto that I could use for smaller scopes. And for casual imaging with a very small scope. All without spending over a grand for just the mount. I understand it's not the best option for anything. But Celestron seems to have a good rep on their guidance system, in general. So I don't think it was a complete mistake.

 

But I would absolutely love to put a pier extension on it.



#62 precaud

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 10:39 AM

One of the four or five reasons that I didn't choose the dob to start with was because I didn't think I'd like looking through the side of the scope. But I will never know until I try.

 

It seems like an odd theoretical objection to me. But you've ordered the scope, so you'll soon see if it is to your liking.

 

For me, observing through a 8-10" dob is by far the most comfortable and efficient observing setup. A 6" F/8 frac is the least comfortable. My setup consists of the dob, a small table for gear, and an ordinary telescoping office chair. I can comfortably observe (including using the finder) anywhere in the sky from that seated position. And at the end of the evening, my body feels fine. That was definitely not the case with the 6" achro on a mount with pier extension. Get ready for lots of movement, cursing, and yoga-like postures.

 

Both setups are challenging to use when observing objects direcly overhead, but the frac is downright uncomfortable. Sitting or kneeling on the ground, especially in the winter, to find and observe objects near zenith is no fun at all. If I were to ever have one again, I'd want a solid, motorized adjustable-height pier. But IMO, the views aren't worth doing all that for. A 5" ED frac makes a lot more sense, and outperforms the 6" achro.


Edited by precaud, 09 May 2020 - 10:41 AM.


#63 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 01:02 PM

It seems like an odd theoretical objection to me. But you've ordered the scope, so you'll soon see if it is to your liking.

 

For me, observing through a 8-10" dob is by far the most comfortable and efficient observing setup. A 6" F/8 frac is the least comfortable. My setup consists of the dob, a small table for gear, and an ordinary telescoping office chair. I can comfortably observe (including using the finder) anywhere in the sky from that seated position. And at the end of the evening, my body feels fine. That was definitely not the case with the 6" achro on a mount with pier extension. Get ready for lots of movement, cursing, and yoga-like postures.

 

Both setups are challenging to use when observing objects direcly overhead, but the frac is downright uncomfortable. Sitting or kneeling on the ground, especially in the winter, to find and observe objects near zenith is no fun at all. If I were to ever have one again, I'd want a solid, motorized adjustable-height pier. But IMO, the views aren't worth doing all that for. A 5" ED frac makes a lot more sense, and outperforms the 6" achro.

A 5" ED would've tripled my cost.

 

But I did struggle with the decision to pick the AVX with 6" refractor over a dob.

But my reasoning was that even if I don't like the large scope, I'll still have a good mount for smaller scopes and dabbling in astrophotography.

 

I'm sure I'll get a dob down the line. A part of me just couldn't make up my mind which size. An 8" looks plenty convenient. But a 12" would really be something to look through.

 

And don't think I haven't considered cancelling the order, and just going with the little 8" dob to get started. Maybe that would be best in the long run. Would certainly leave more money on the table for a smaller grab and go along with some accessories.


Edited by Echolight, 09 May 2020 - 01:07 PM.


#64 GOLGO13

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 01:26 PM

I don't see any reason to cast so much doubt on this setup. This should be a very nice scope and setup. I'm sure it will do just fine.

 

Nothing wrong with the 6 inch refractor. 

 

Sure, a 5 inch ED scope would be better, but as you say that's super expensive. Maybe sometime in the future, and your mount would hold it just fine.

 

The Celestron 6 inch F8 is a classic scope and should give some really nice views.


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#65 GOLGO13

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 01:47 PM

I just read a bunch of reviews of this setup and all positive. 

 

Sure, when viewing objects at Zenith it will be low to the ground...similar to a Dob when pointed toward the horizon (granted you don't often view that low).

 

In my opinion the only part of this scope that would benefit from an upgrade down the road is the focuser. But it will be fine for a few years.


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#66 SeattleScott

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 02:14 PM

I don’t find an extension necessary. I put a Rigel Qwikfinder about midway up on the mounting rings so I don’t have to crawl on the ground to line up targets near zenith. Then I found a deal on a 50mm RACI to compliment it, but that is somewhat of a luxury.

Not saying an extension wouldn’t be useful. But I use multiple scopes on the same mount, including a reflector, so I don’t want to change the height to suit a single scope.

Scott
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#67 GOLGO13

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 03:29 PM

The chair I use is good for those low refractor views

 

vixen81s

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#68 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 05:05 PM

I just read a bunch of reviews of this setup and all positive. 

 

Sure, when viewing objects at Zenith it will be low to the ground...similar to a Dob when pointed toward the horizon (granted you don't often view that low).

 

In my opinion the only part of this scope that would benefit from an upgrade down the road is the focuser. But it will be fine for a few years.

Thanks. Really the only thing I would like is a 2" diagonal. As those are the eyepieces I'd prefer to invest in initially....which might make the focuser upgrade more necessary. But these are things that I had planned on anyway.

 

That and knowing it is slightly undermounted going in.

 

I've already been brainstorming on ways to make a removable pier via a ground-level capped pipe in the ground that a snugly fit smaller pipe can slide into.



#69 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 05:07 PM

I don't see any reason to cast so much doubt on this setup. This should be a very nice scope and setup. I'm sure it will do just fine.

 

Nothing wrong with the 6 inch refractor. 

 

Sure, a 5 inch ED scope would be better, but as you say that's super expensive. Maybe sometime in the future, and your mount would hold it just fine.

 

The Celestron 6 inch F8 is a classic scope and should give some really nice views.

Appreciate the vote of confidence. I think it'll be a great scope to start out with. Didn't want to wait on trying out a 6" reflector until I'm too old to wrangle it around.



#70 GOLGO13

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 05:16 PM

Thanks. Really the only thing I would like is a 2" diagonal. As those are the eyepieces I'd prefer to invest in initially....which might make the focuser upgrade more necessary. But these are things that I had planned on anyway.

 

That and knowing it is slightly undermounted going in.

 

I've already been brainstorming on ways to make a removable pier via a ground-level capped pipe in the ground that a snugly fit smaller pipe can slide into.

I don't think it will be undermounted, though SeattleScott may be able to let you know. Just ensure to balance it properly. 

 

A 2 inch diagonal would be a good idea and a wide 2 inch eyepiece. Probably don't have to go too expensive here right away. The used market should have plenty of these also.


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#71 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 05:22 PM

I don’t find an extension necessary. I put a Rigel Qwikfinder about midway up on the mounting rings so I don’t have to crawl on the ground to line up targets near zenith. Then I found a deal on a 50mm RACI to compliment it, but that is somewhat of a luxury.

Not saying an extension wouldn’t be useful. But I use multiple scopes on the same mount, including a reflector, so I don’t want to change the height to suit a single scope.

Scott

I agree. This mount was on the threshold of what I thought was reasonable for me to purchase getting into the hobby.

 

The plan was all along to build some kind of tall portable/removable/elevating pier for the back yard.

 

The tripod will surely be used when taking the scope to a dark site. And for the planned tiny scope for ap. And maybe a 127 mak.



#72 SeattleScott

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 06:56 PM

I find my Sphinx Mount does just fine up to 100x. Given the crude single speed focuser, vibrations start getting frustrating at 150x. That is as high as I normally go with the scope due to CA.

I would expect an AVX Mount to be similar.

I tried an LXD75 also but found it very frustrating because of the excessive backlash. The backlash however did effectively distract me from the vibrations so I cannot fairly assess the stability with that mount.

Scott
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#73 Steve Cox

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:35 PM

Congrats on the purchase.  Now that you've got one on the way, I would suggest you shop and buy a new dewshield for the scope; I bought an Astrozap flexible shield for mine - if I recall correctly it was the AZC5 at Scopestuff.  Reason being the stock dewshield is a 2lb steel weight, which is excess and unnecessary weight up top.  Removing the stock shield for something lighter shifts the CG back some allowing you to move the scope a little higher in the saddle.

 

As for the pier extension, I very much appreciate mine, as it allows me to keep the legs retracted and adds needed weight down low, making it more stable, and it keeps the scope away from the legs.  Before adding the extension, I always had to watch my goto's to ensure my focuser wasn't going to run into a tripod leg.  That said, the AVX is different than all the other previous Celestron/Synta mounts, even the CG5 it replaced.  The coupling between mount and tripod are different.  If you order an extension (which is a three piece assembly, tube and two endcaps) you'll have to find someone to fabricate two new aluminum endcaps which perform the coupling.


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#74 Echolight

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:53 PM

Congrats on the purchase.

 

As for the pier extension,

The coupling between mount and tripod are different.  If you order an extension (which is a three piece assembly, tube and two endcaps) you'll have to find someone to fabricate two new aluminum endcaps which perform the coupling.

Thank you!

 

Something like this?

https://www.highpoin...ASABEgK90PD_BwE

I searched AVX pier extension and this popped up. Says "ADM mount adapter". But not sure if that's what I'm looking for.

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Edited by Echolight, 09 May 2020 - 08:57 PM.


#75 Steve Cox

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:59 PM

No, that's an adapter that goes between the scope and mount head, and wouldn't work with your scope or mount.  The coupling I'm referring to is between the base of the mount head and the top of the tripod where they screw together.  And it would be the same type of adapter plate you would have to make if you're planning on building your own pier; you'll need an adapter to secure the mount head to the pier.  Once you get your scope and assemble it, you'll understand better.

 

edit - just get your scope first and get to know it, then you'll begin to figure out what you need and want to modify.  And until you get the scope in, setup and get some use on it, you won't know how tall a pier you'll want to build.  Just get the scope first and enjoy it for a while.


Edited by Steve Cox, 09 May 2020 - 09:08 PM.

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