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#126 25585

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 01:40 PM

I can confirm with Gerald that Takitis can lead to something much more severe...

 

The Takahashi will have to find another home to make room for the new arrival.

 

attachicon.gif20201106_190151.jpg

 

attachicon.gif20201106_192440.jpg

Tyson, what made you change from the TOA to an AP130? I see your big binos have gone from your signature too.



#127 Tyson M

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 02:05 PM

Tyson, what made you change from the TOA to an AP130? I see your big binos have gone from your signature too.

TOA130 outperformed the APM binoculars, I didn't find any benefit from two eyes observing except comfort. Binocular summation did not make dark lanes pop out more, perhaps maybe against another 100mm scope but no match for 30mm aperture and top of the line optics.

The AP130 because it is same aperture as the TOA130, but a lot less weight(half if you include the counterweightfor the TOA which I had to use), same optical quality better build quality(the best build quality you can buy), and hopefully faster cooldown with the oil spacing.

The last 3 or 4 outings with the TOA were foiled by unexpected cloud before the scope cooled down. Waited almost 2 hours or so the last time, but it is possible it was also a mix of the below average seeing. But this was at low to medium power - not high power work.

Edited by Tyson M, 07 November 2020 - 03:07 PM.

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#128 25585

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 03:08 PM

TOA130 outperformed the APM binoculars, I didn't find any benefit from two eyes observing except comfort. Binocular summation did not make dark lanes pop out more, perhaps maybe against another 100mm scope but no match for 30mm aperture and top of the line optics.

The AP130 because it is same aperture as the TOA130, but a lot less weight(half if you include the counterweightfor the TOA which I had to use), same optical quality better build quality(the best build quality you can buy), and hopefully faster cooldown with the oil spacing.

The last 3 or 4 outings with the TOA were foiled by unexpected cloud before the scope cooled down. Waited almost 2 hours or so the last time, but it is possible it was also a mix of the below average seeing. But this was at low to medium power - not high power work.

Thanks, did you keep both Noblex eyepieces?

 

I did not know the 130 was oil spaced. Thought TOAs were built as well as APs. 



#129 Tyson M

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 03:12 PM

Thanks, did you keep both Noblex eyepieces?

I did not know the 130 was oil spaced. Thought TOAs were built as well as APs.

I kept one Noblex. Keeping the other as it is my favorite eyepiece.

The Taks ARE built well, I just think Astrophysics have the best build quality that money can buy.

Edited by Tyson M, 07 November 2020 - 03:13 PM.

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#130 Haydon

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 03:32 PM

It makes the TOA look like a 150.  Congrats 


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#131 Howard Gao

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 07:06 PM

The 130GT I owned. It’s a perfect scope.

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Edited by Howard Gao, 07 November 2020 - 07:07 PM.

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#132 Howard Gao

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 07:10 PM

The only AP I have now. Hopefully I will keep it forever.

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Edited by Howard Gao, 07 November 2020 - 07:10 PM.

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#133 gjanke

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Posted 07 November 2020 - 07:18 PM

The only AP I have now. Hopefully I will keep it forever.

I am hoping my next scope will be a traveler!


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#134 edif300

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 12:57 AM

It makes the TOA look like a 150.  Congrats 

Thank you.

 

When one is involved into *serious* astrophotography with nearby 5 kg uploaded in the stock focuser of the TOA ... you know why a TOA is built as is done... and then one gives thanks for it. Thats my own experience.


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#135 EricCCD

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 10:02 AM

TOA130 outperformed the APM binoculars, I didn't find any benefit from two eyes observing except comfort. Binocular summation did not make dark lanes pop out more, perhaps maybe against another 100mm scope but no match for 30mm aperture and top of the line optics.

The AP130 because it is same aperture as the TOA130, but a lot less weight(half if you include the counterweightfor the TOA which I had to use), same optical quality better build quality(the best build quality you can buy), and hopefully faster cooldown with the oil spacing.

The last 3 or 4 outings with the TOA were foiled by unexpected cloud before the scope cooled down. Waited almost 2 hours or so the last time, but it is possible it was also a mix of the below average seeing. But this was at low to medium power - not high power work.

I'll echo Tyson's impressions of the two scopes. I had both the TOA and the AP130 for a gloriously short time several years ago. I would have loved to keep both scopes (both gave terrific views as should be expected) but couldn't justify this to myself, and kept the AP130.

 

Mass-wise, the TOA felt like a 5" scope masquerading as a 6" .

 

The AP felt like a 5" scope masquerading as a 4" scope.

 

Attached is my own SBS of the two scopes when I had them both. The upper picture (upside-down so the orientation of both images are the same) is with dewshields retracted, bottom with both extended.

 

The kicker for me: I mounted the TOA onto a Universal Astronomics mount with the saddle side-mounted. I needed my wife's help to mount the scope: the assembly was so massive that I had to mount the dovetail/ring assembly to the mount's saddle first, then the OTA onto the rings. I could not hold the OTA to the rings with one hand while closing the rings: I had to ask my wife to close the rings for me.

 

When I repeated the above for the AP130, it was a simple solo task.

 

Eric

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#136 Marcus Roman

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 10:13 AM

I'll echo Tyson's impressions of the two scopes. I had both the TOA and the AP130 for a gloriously short time several years ago. I would have loved to keep both scopes (both gave terrific views as should be expected) but couldn't justify this to myself, and kept the AP130.

 

Mass-wise, the TOA felt like a 5" scope masquerading as a 6" .

 

The AP felt like a 5" scope masquerading as a 4" scope.

 

Attached is my own SBS of the two scopes when I had them both. The upper picture (upside-down so the orientation of both images are the same) is with dewshields retracted, bottom with both extended.

 

The kicker for me: I mounted the TOA onto a Universal Astronomics mount with the saddle side-mounted. I needed my wife's help to mount the scope: the assembly was so massive that I had to mount the dovetail/ring assembly to the mount's saddle first, then the OTA onto the rings. I could not hold the OTA to the rings with one hand while closing the rings: I had to ask my wife to close the rings for me.

 

When I repeated the above for the AP130, it was a simple solo task.

 

Eric

Eric, this was the same very reason which made me lean towards the AP 130EDF (on top of its acclaimed great optics) vs the TOA130.

Still, I'm curious about the optical differences in performance you or any other friend of the forum saw between these two beauties?


Edited by Marcus Roman, 10 November 2020 - 10:13 AM.


#137 EricCCD

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 11:45 AM

Here's my post from the archives:

 

https://www.cloudyni...130f-round-one/

 

A rematch from me is no longer possible, as the TOA is long gone with the new owner loving it as his imaging workhorse.


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#138 25585

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 12:54 PM

Which AP refractors have & had air spaced elements?



#139 donadani

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 12:57 PM

The 130GT I owned. It’s a perfect scope.

Really like the look of the GT! (as long as the dewcap is closed ;) )

 

Sold mine only to buy the predecessor some months later... love the tailored tube ones! 

 

They all are great scopes!



#140 donadani

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 12:59 PM

Which AP refractors have & had air spaced elements?

present 130EDF-GTX (for two lenses), 160EDF, 175EDF, some older EDT´s - further ones?



#141 vahe

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 06:08 PM

Which AP refractors have & had air spaced elements?

Back in 1992 I received word from AP that my 155mm F/9 EDT was almost ready, I also received a letter from Marj giving me the option to choose between "true and proven air spaced" triplet or their all new oil spaced design, Marj in her letter gave me the pros and cons of each design including higher efficiency of oil spaced vs +/-6% light loss in air spaced lens assemblies.
.
I accepted her suggestion and went with oil spaced objective. I still do not understand how a triplet lens can be designed to be either/or oil vs air spaced.
.
I received the F/9 EDT in January of 1993, probably the finest portable planetary APO made by anyone.
.
Vahe


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#142 ron scarboro

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 07:30 PM

Eric, this was the same very reason which made me lean towards the AP 130EDF (on top of its acclaimed great optics) vs the TOA130.

Still, I'm curious about the optical differences in performance you or any other friend of the forum saw between these two beauties?

I owned both scopes for about a year.  My impressions from an optical perspective only.

 

1.  The AP130GT routinely outperformed the TAK.  Not because the optics are better (they weren't on my examples), but because the TAK with the wide air space takes a long time to cool down.  Once both scopes reach thermal equilibrium the views were identical. 

 

2.  I suppose the TAK has better color correction, but I could never discern a difference.  Both scopes were/are colorless to my eye.

 

3.  I never saw details in either scope the other wouldn't show when at equilibrium.  I did learn that my Ethos eyepieces outperform my Delos eyepieces by having two scopes with such identical performance.

 

In the end, I kept the AP and sold the TAK (kept the EM200 mount).  AP is lighter, the build quality is better and the scope delivers more quickly which suits my casual observing habits.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

Clear skies,

 

Ron

 

PS: Because I can't help myself...  My AP130GT is the finest mechanically assembled scope I've ever owned.  Better than the TAK130, better than the TEC180, better than a LZOS 130, better than my Stowaway 92, better than any compound telescope I currently own, or have ever owned.  Until you have one, it is hard to appreciate the difference.


Edited by ron scarboro, 10 November 2020 - 07:36 PM.

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#143 Tyson M

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 09:22 PM

I owned both scopes for about a year.  My impressions from an optical perspective only.

 

1.  The AP130GT routinely outperformed the TAK.  Not because the optics are better (they weren't on my examples), but because the TAK with the wide air space takes a long time to cool down.  Once both scopes reach thermal equilibrium the views were identical. 

 

2.  I suppose the TAK has better color correction, but I could never discern a difference.  Both scopes were/are colorless to my eye.

 

3.  I never saw details in either scope the other wouldn't show when at equilibrium.  I did learn that my Ethos eyepieces outperform my Delos eyepieces by having two scopes with such identical performance.

 

In the end, I kept the AP and sold the TAK (kept the EM200 mount).  AP is lighter, the build quality is better and the scope delivers more quickly which suits my casual observing habits.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

Clear skies,

 

Ron

 

PS: Because I can't help myself...  My AP130GT is the finest mechanically assembled scope I've ever owned.  Better than the TAK130, better than the TEC180, better than a LZOS 130, better than my Stowaway 92, better than any compound telescope I currently own, or have ever owned.  Until you have one, it is hard to appreciate the difference.

After receiving the 130GT and after owning all of the scopes I have, I'd agree with you. The only scope that equalled the GT for build quality is the AP 105 traveller. But it felt stout for its size, whereas the 130GT feels svelte and small. I have immeadiately fell in love with it.

 

I have mildly regretted letting the traveller go but this is 25mm bigger aperture and likely not much bigger in size so now that regret has faded into knowing I ended up in the right direction.

 

That being said, if I could afford it in the future i'd consider another pebble finish 105mm.


Edited by Tyson M, 10 November 2020 - 09:26 PM.

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#144 gjanke

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 09:41 PM

Ron

 

PS: Because I can't help myself...  My AP130GT is the finest mechanically assembled scope I've ever owned.  Better than the TAK130, better than the TEC180, better than a LZOS 130, better than my Stowaway 92, better than any compound telescope I currently own, or have ever owned.  Until you have one, it is hard to appreciate the difference.

I have had both and sold both. Here are the things I remember about each.

 

The TOA130 was a leviathan, challenging to balance and needed a stout mount to view a steady image.

 

The AP GT creates a kind of vacuum seal when an eyepiece was inserted. When you pull the eyepiece out a sound is created by pressure differences and the  sound waves reflect at the boundaries of the lenses and at the vacating eyepiece. More simple put its the sound that Darth Vaders helmet makes when its being put on in his head when he is in his chamber on the star destroyer in Empire Strikes Back. 

 

From just a plain fun factor I have never enjoyed a scope more than the new AP 92 stowaway. The GT was awesome and the TOA was great but the Stowaway has been my gateway to the heavens this past summer and looks to continue well into the winter and coming spring. 

 

I think we can agree, AP makes a fantastic scope!


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#145 George9

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Posted 10 November 2020 - 10:55 PM

I own the recent AP92 Stowaway, an early run AP130GT, and a late AP155EDF. The 155 is my favorite just because it is so light and small for its aperture, and its f/7 focal ratio is forgiving. I refuse to part with the 130 unless I am desperate. Someday I will shift back to the 130. In fact, just reading this thread, I am thinking it may be time to turn the 130 into a grab-and-go, which mainly means picking the right mount and using it where I currently use my 92.

 

If I were picking a non-AP scope, it would be a TOA, but I did not fully consider the cool-down time. Or a TEC180 if I had the space (well, or AP180, but that's a bigger financial investment).

 

George


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#146 25585

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Posted 11 November 2020 - 07:17 AM

Weight apart, how is the AP 130 better built than a TOA 130?

 

I appreciate lightness, love my TSA-120.

 

How resilient are AP coatings compared to Tak TOA ones?



#147 Swanny

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Posted 11 November 2020 - 09:19 AM

Taks lens cell being what it is creates a lot of the weight up front. And being an f7 not an f6. Kind of apples to oranges comparison except for aperture. Paint they use is different but build quality may be tilted to AP due to a better focuser. Otherwise I don’t see much of a difference externally.

And being air spaced I guess it takes longer to cool down. But I don’t understand the worry as I set up and then go inside and do stuff while the cool down happens. I think that also depends on where you live how long that cool down will be. In AZ I don’t notice much of a difference.
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#148 peleuba

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Posted 11 November 2020 - 12:41 PM

Weight apart, how is the AP 130 better built than a TOA 130?

 

I appreciate lightness, love my TSA-120.

 

How resilient are AP coatings compared to Tak TOA ones?

 

 

The TSA120 feels like a toy compared to the AP130GT.  I have both.  It does not take very long when fondling the AP130GT to realize how well its built.

 

The AP130GT is built to be a robust astrograph that one can also use visually.  The TSA120 is primarily a visual scope and therefore, has a lighter, thinner tube.  I think the TSA120 is the best refractor in the sub 130aperture class.  I have had some very good views of Jupiter, Saturn and Mars from my deck,  We've been blessed with some clear, dry weather over the last month and its my most used telescope during this time period.

 

Coatings on both are resilient as are most modern multi-coated objectives.  


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#149 vahe

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Posted 11 November 2020 - 01:23 PM

 

Coatings on both are resilient as are most modern multi-coated objectives.  

 

What is resilient coatings? Resilient in what ways?

.

Vahe



#150 donadani

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Posted 11 November 2020 - 02:30 PM

 

 

- tailored tube

- baffles made from the full tube

- 130mm show more then 120mm

- wanted to sell the tsa but, no! can not either... 

- ok not the GT but looks better laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif


Edited by donadani, 11 November 2020 - 02:33 PM.

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