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Orion XT6 as a first telescope. Thoughts?

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#26 uptheirons726

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 09:33 AM

Not bad, but a Crayford is usually better than a rack-and-pinion.  Plus, unlike the 1.25" rack-and-pinion, the 2" Crayford would allow you to use both 1.25" and 2" eyepieces. 

 

Skywatcher offers a version of this scope that has that focuser.  It's also carried by the sponsor of this forum:

 

https://www.astronom...ope-s11600.html

Say I did go with the 1.25 is it possible to get an adapter to use 2 inch eyepieces or is 1.25 inch the only one it would take?


 

#27 vdog

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 11:19 AM

Say I did go with the 1.25 is it possible to get an adapter to use 2 inch eyepieces or is 1.25 inch the only one it would take?
 

No, you would have to replace the focuser later if you wanted a 2" one, which could be done if you're DIY inclined.  People will sometimes upgrade and install a two-speed and / or premium focuser on their scopes.  This might involve enlarging the hole where the focuser goes.

 

Focusers are more important than you might think; that's why people upgrade them.  A rack-and-pinion works, but a Crayford has much smoother action and can be fine-tuned more easily.  You might want to at least consider that Skyline version with the 1.25" Crayford that was recommended.

 

It's possible you wouldn't ever need a 2" focuser if you were content with nothing but 1.25" eyepieces.  2" eyepieces are able to offer a wider field of view at longer focal lengths, which is something you may or may not ever care about.  It would, however, keep that option open.

 

FYI, I've been doing this seriously for just under 3 years, and I have yet to use any 2" eyepieces.  It just hasn't been a priority for me.  Just having the capacity, though, has come in handy, as I've been able to use a coma corrector and a 2" Barlow on a scope that didn't play nice with a 1.25" one.

 

I plan to purchase my first 2" eyepiece later this year, but that purchase is tied to a scope upgrade I'll be making around the same time. 


Edited by vdog, 08 May 2020 - 02:14 PM.

 

#28 GOLGO13

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 11:44 AM

Do you guys think the 2 inch version on the skywatcher is getting fully illuminated with a wide field 2 inch eyepiece? There could be a reason most of these come with 1.25. 

 

I think 1.25 is fine for this scope personally. A 32mm plossl would be a nice low power. 


 

#29 SteveG

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 01:21 PM

Do you guys think the 2 inch version on the skywatcher is getting fully illuminated with a wide field 2 inch eyepiece? There could be a reason most of these come with 1.25. 

 

I think 1.25 is fine for this scope personally. A 32mm plossl would be a nice low power. 

Even if it isn't, you would hardly notice it. What you will notice is the amazing wide-field capability that a 2" eyepiece offers. And at f8, you won't have to spend a fortune on it.

 

I had a 6" f8 reflector for years, and it was incredibly sharp. It's only downside was it lacked a 2" focuser, and just swapping it out wasn't an option (complicated). If you have the option to buy a scope with a 2" focuser, it's worth an extra $180 at least!


 

#30 GOLGO13

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 01:59 PM

I think they are about the same price. Just wasn't sure if the secondary is sized correctly. But if it is fair enough.
 

#31 Mike T.

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 03:31 PM

The Skywatcher on Astronomics states it comes with a crayford but the pic looks like a rack and pinion. Other vendor websites of the same scope state it is a rack and pinion. You may want to clarify with Astronomics.

 

My beginner research led me to the opinion that a 2" focuser in a 6" f/8 scope is questionable. There is a long thread on cloudy nights about it. I ended up making a conscious decision to start with the 1.25" format only. Mainly to keep it simple and keep the cost down.

 

https://www.cloudyni...-6-f8-worth-it/

 

I think if you really want to get wide field views in a 2" inch eyepiece go with the 8" F/6 scope.

 

I have been more than ecstatic with my 6" f/8 and 1.25" crayford focuser. No shortage of beautiful objects to find. I will be busy for many years to come.


 

#32 GOLGO13

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:02 PM

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 1.25 inch setup. Don't have to really worry about balance issues either. 

 

I would just be sure to max out that format with either a 40mm or 32mm Plossl and or a 24mm 68 (either ES or televue are excellent, but a bit pricey though ES is on sale I believe). 

 

I actually only have one 2 inch eyepiece I use ( a 34mm 68 degree) and it's great. But, I don't think I would get too wrapped up in the 2 inch format. Plus you can then focus on 1.25 inch filters only which saves a lot of money.

 

For this scope (assuming it actually works properly with 2 inch) the field of view with my 34mm 68 is 1.93 and a 32mm plossl (50 degree) is 1.33. So it's not a gigantic increase. Noticeable, yes, but not gigantic. 

 

Now, in my 60mm refractor it is a bigger difference. 6.42 field of view with the 34mm 68 and 4.44 with the 32mm 50. And that scope does have a 2 inch capability.


 

#33 JohnBear

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 05:02 PM

Ditto above comments on 2" EPs.  90+% of the time you will be using 1.25"ers anyway, and you will seldom see any visual difference on your 6" Dob. When you get your future 16" Dob you will be able to really appreciate what the 2" EPs can do.


 

#34 LDW47

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 05:54 PM

Even if it isn't, you would hardly notice it. What you will notice is the amazing wide-field capability that a 2" eyepiece offers. And at f8, you won't have to spend a fortune on it.

 

I had a 6" f8 reflector for years, and it was incredibly sharp. It's only downside was it lacked a 2" focuser, and just swapping it out wasn't an option (complicated). If you have the option to buy a scope with a 2" focuser, it's worth an extra $180 at least!

Its not an additional $ option with at least 50% of reflectors / dobs they come with stock 2” focusers this day and age !  Look around !  Clear 2” skize !


 

#35 LDW47

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 05:59 PM

Ditto above comments on 2" EPs.  90+% of the time you will be using 1.25"ers anyway, and you will seldom see any visual difference on your 6" Dob. When you get your future 16" Dob you will be able to really appreciate what the 2" EPs can do.

Don’t say 90%+ because you are wrong with us astronomers that have a collection of 2” eps down to about 18mm ! Its a great option to pick up a scope that comes with a 2” focuser even if it is for future use and with most it doesn’t take long unless they are just an ‘against the grain ‘ type astronomer ! Clear future option skiys !


 

#36 LDW47

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 06:04 PM

The Skywatcher on Astronomics states it comes with a crayford but the pic looks like a rack and pinion. Other vendor websites of the same scope state it is a rack and pinion. You may want to clarify with Astronomics.

 

My beginner research led me to the opinion that a 2" focuser in a 6" f/8 scope is questionable. There is a long thread on cloudy nights about it. I ended up making a conscious decision to start with the 1.25" format only. Mainly to keep it simple and keep the cost down.

 

https://www.cloudyni...-6-f8-worth-it/

 

I think if you really want to get wide field views in a 2" inch eyepiece go with the 8" F/6 scope.

 

I have been more than ecstatic with my 6" f/8 and 1.25" crayford focuser. No shortage of beautiful objects to find. I will be busy for many years to come.

Don’t worry the 6” SW has a 2” focuser, it always has and the 2” views are great just like the 8”, I have both !  Most today that don’t get 2” capabilities kick themselves shortly down the road at no extra cost !  Clear kickin’ skize !


 

#37 LDW47

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 06:08 PM

Say I did go with the 1.25 is it possible to get an adapter to use 2 inch eyepieces or is 1.25 inch the only one it would take?

My advice like it or not is to don’t go with the 1.25” focuser not this day and age ! These are modern times, lol ! And modern times say 2” every time, why wouldn’t you for no extra cost ?  Clear modern skies !


 

#38 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 07:47 PM

I'd certainly opt for the 2" focuser and being a Crayford, a better one at that.  One only needs one 2" wide-field eyepiece and, at f/8, inexpensive 70-degree apparent field of view Erfle-type oculars like the 38mm Agena SWA or the 35mm Bresser will work rather well.  A 2" wide-field will make locating objects easier and will allow views of some of the larger deep-sky objects in their entirety.


 

#39 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 08:44 PM

BTW, the 38mm Agena SWA eyepiece will produce a true field of view of about 2.2 degrees, almost a full degree greater than a 1.25" 32mm Plössl.


 

#40 macdonjh

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 09:15 PM

My son and I used an XT6i for a couple of years.  I really liked it.  On good nights it would support 300x for the moon and planets.  The 6" mirror has enough light grasp for bright DSO.  I just wish Orion still offered the Intelli-Scope DSC for it.  I have not developed any skill in star hopping.


 

#41 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 09:39 PM

A few thoughts:

 

- I believe the Skywatcher 2 inch focuser is a rack and pinion. I also believe the XT-6 focuser is plastic, at least the body.  In my mind, a 2 inch focuser versus a 1.25 inch: the 2 inch is m9ney in the bank, you don't have to use it but it's there if you want it.

 

- I think the 8 inch F/6 is worth considering.  The OTAs are about the same length, the bases are about the same size and weight, only the 8 inch OTA is heavier but its about the weight of the base.  I always move tube Dobs in two pieces, the OTA and the base so an 8 inch is not much more effort than the 6 inch.  

 

- The 8 inch mirror adds significant light gathering and resolution but additionally, it will come with better components and accessories. 

 

The Apertura AD 8 is about $470.  It comes with a 50 mm RACI finder, a decent 30 mm 2 inch wide field and a quality 2 inch, 2 speed Crayford.  New the finder is $60, the eyepiece $65 and the focuser $135.  The finder is something one will want, some sort of 2 inch wide field is something one will want and the 2 inch Crayford, it is a very nice thing to have. 

 

Yes, the 30mm GSO Superview is not the best 2 inch wide field eyepiece ever made.. But from my point of view.. I do have the arguably the four best 2 inch widefield eyepieces ever made, the 41mm and 35mm Panoptics, the 31mm Nagler and the 21mm Ethos. I also have the 30 mm GSO Superview.  It's not as perfect as the others but it is effective, enjoyable and capable.  

 

With the Apertura, you are getting these things in addition to the 8 inch mirror.

 

https://www.highpoin...n-telescope-ad8

 

There is no doubt a 6 inch Dob is a very capable first scope and one often recommended.  But my gut feeling is that for most an 8 inch is a better choice because it's just more capable.  With the 6 inch, you will be buying things that come stock with the 8 inch. 

 

It's getting dark, the skies are clear.  

 

Jon


 

#42 Dave Mitsky

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 09:43 PM

According to the advertising, the Sky-Watcher has a single-speed Crayford focuser.

 

This 6" Sky-Watcher Dobsonian reflector has:
6" aperture 1200mm focal length f/8 Newtonian optics
single-speed 2" Crayford focuser with 1.25" adapter
6x30mm finderscope
1.25" 10mm and 25mm Plössl eyepieces
Teflon altitude and azimuth bearings
altitude tension clutch
eyepiece tray


 

#43 Jon Isaacs

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 10:16 PM

Dave: I know the text says 2 inch Crayford but if you look at the photo you can see it's a rack and Focuser.

 

https://www.astronom...0.html?___SID=U

 

Jon


 

#44 LDW47

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 07:24 AM

A few thoughts:

 

- I believe the Skywatcher 2 inch focuser is a rack and pinion. I also believe the XT-6 focuser is plastic, at least the body.  In my mind, a 2 inch focuser versus a 1.25 inch: the 2 inch is m9ney in the bank, you don't have to use it but it's there if you want it.

 

- I think the 8 inch F/6 is worth considering.  The OTAs are about the same length, the bases are about the same size and weight, only the 8 inch OTA is heavier but its about the weight of the base.  I always move tube Dobs in two pieces, the OTA and the base so an 8 inch is not much more effort than the 6 inch.  

 

- The 8 inch mirror adds significant light gathering and resolution but additionally, it will come with better components and accessories. 

 

The Apertura AD 8 is about $470.  It comes with a 50 mm RACI finder, a decent 30 mm 2 inch wide field and a quality 2 inch, 2 speed Crayford.  New the finder is $60, the eyepiece $65 and the focuser $135.  The finder is something one will want, some sort of 2 inch wide field is something one will want and the 2 inch Crayford, it is a very nice thing to have. 

 

Yes, the 30mm GSO Superview is not the best 2 inch wide field eyepiece ever made.. But from my point of view.. I do have the arguably the four best 2 inch widefield eyepieces ever made, the 41mm and 35mm Panoptics, the 31mm Nagler and the 21mm Ethos. I also have the 30 mm GSO Superview.  It's not as perfect as the others but it is effective, enjoyable and capable.  

 

With the Apertura, you are getting these things in addition to the 8 inch mirror.

 

https://www.highpoin...n-telescope-ad8

 

There is no doubt a 6 inch Dob is a very capable first scope and one often recommended.  But my gut feeling is that for most an 8 inch is a better choice because it's just more capable.  With the 6 inch, you will be buying things that come stock with the 8 inch. 

 

It's getting dark, the skies are clear.  

 

Jon

I knew this would come but for the record the stock items with the SW 6” is exactly the same as with the 8” and the focusers on both models are Crayfords, single speed, I own them both ! Unless they have regressed, lol !  Clear same skize !  PS: Do you always rely on a small picture ? And by the way those focusers are all metal !


Edited by LDW47, 09 May 2020 - 07:33 AM.

 

#45 uptheirons726

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 07:54 AM

This is what's driving me crazy about this. Lol. You think you've settled on a decision but then some people come along that make you question said choice and think, hmmm, maybe I should go with this one or that one instead. Decisions decisions! Nearly every option I've narrowed it down to isn't in stock anywhere so I still have some time to decide. I appreciate all the replies, people here definitely seem more knowledgeable than certain Facebook groups. I had a guy on FB tell me a 6 or 8 inch dob won't be any better than the department store scope I owned as a kid and to save and spend at least 3 times that. Now granted I know nothing about telescopes but that dude sounds like a moron. Lol. My first choice was an Astroview 90mm. Since then I've gone bigger and bigger and bigger. Now I'm considering an 8 inch dob. Lol. I have aperture fever and I haven't even bought a scope yet! So my choices are basically down to 6 or 8 inch dob and if I want a 1.25 or 2 inch focuser. 


 

#46 LDW47

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:04 AM

This is what's driving me crazy about this. Lol. You think you've settled on a decision but then some people come along that make you question said choice and think, hmmm, maybe I should go with this one or that one instead. Decisions decisions! Nearly every option I've narrowed it down to isn't in stock anywhere so I still have some time to decide. I appreciate all the replies, people here definitely seem more knowledgeable than certain Facebook groups. I had a guy on FB tell me a 6 or 8 inch dob won't be any better than the department store scope I owned as a kid and to save and spend at least 3 times that. Now granted I know nothing about telescopes but that dude sounds like a moron. Lol. My first choice was an Astroview 90mm. Since then I've gone bigger and bigger and bigger. Now I'm considering an 8 inch dob. Lol. I have aperture fever and I haven't even bought a scope yet! So my choices are basically down to 6 or 8 inch dob and if I want a 1.25 or 2 inch focuser. 

There are many that sit on the fence that never make a decision and there are many out there that just like to keep feeding bigger and bigger scopes to get as starters and in the end, for a beginner, they are just big and cumbersome and frustrating and inevitably never get used ! The choice in the end is hopefully your wise decision ! But ask yourself ‘ do I really, really think that this will be my final scope or can I go bigger down the road once I get comfortable with myself and this great hobby ‘ ! Clear wise skize in the future !  PS:  You aren’t the only one that has had this problem believe me, lol !


Edited by LDW47, 09 May 2020 - 08:05 AM.

 

#47 uptheirons726

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:07 AM

What's everyones feelings on this scope? Says it comes with a 2.5HEX focuser. Allows for the use of 1.25 and 2 inch eyepieces. 

 

https://www.astronom...e.html?___SID=U


 

#48 LDW47

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:23 AM

What's everyones feelings on this scope? Says it comes with a 2.5HEX focuser. Allows for the use of 1.25 and 2 inch eyepieces. 

 

https://www.astronom...e.html?___SID=U

Nice scope and the price is great ! Get it while you can before someone starts talking 10” or bigger, lol !  Those black, clear nite skize are waiting !  Clear dark future skiys !


 

#49 vdog

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 09:12 AM

This is what's driving me crazy about this. Lol. You think you've settled on a decision but then some people come along that make you question said choice and think, hmmm, maybe I should go with this one or that one instead. Decisions decisions! Nearly every option I've narrowed it down to isn't in stock anywhere so I still have some time to decide. I appreciate all the replies, people here definitely seem more knowledgeable than certain Facebook groups. I had a guy on FB tell me a 6 or 8 inch dob won't be any better than the department store scope I owned as a kid and to save and spend at least 3 times that. Now granted I know nothing about telescopes but that dude sounds like a moron. Lol. My first choice was an Astroview 90mm. Since then I've gone bigger and bigger and bigger. Now I'm considering an 8 inch dob. Lol. I have aperture fever and I haven't even bought a scope yet! So my choices are basically down to 6 or 8 inch dob and if I want a 1.25 or 2 inch focuser. 

That's the risk you run when soliciting opinions.  You will get them. lol.gif

 

It can be head-spinning because people's opinions will differ, but it is ultimately your decision.  Pick the scope you think will work best for you.

 

FWIW, I don't think there's a wrong choice, at least between the scopes you're looking at. All of them have their advantages and disadvantages.  That's pretty much the way it goes in this hobby.  You have to decide which disadvantages you can live with in order to get the advantages that are the most important to you. 

 

I don't know anything about the FirstLight dobs, but I'd be surprised if they were significantly inferior to any other dobs in this price range. Don't be afraid to ask the vendors what they think either.  If they have a better scope at a similar price point, I'm sure they'd tell you.


Edited by vdog, 09 May 2020 - 11:54 AM.

 

#50 GOLGO13

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 09:31 AM

There are many that sit on the fence that never make a decision and there are many out there that just like to keep feeding bigger and bigger scopes to get as starters and in the end, for a beginner, they are just big and cumbersome and frustrating and inevitably never get used ! The choice in the end is hopefully your wise decision ! But ask yourself ‘ do I really, really think that this will be my final scope or can I go bigger down the road once I get comfortable with myself and this great hobby ‘ ! Clear wise skize in the future !  PS:  You aren’t the only one that has had this problem believe me, lol !

Before you run to the hills on the 6 inch f8, don't listen to strangers from a strange land. Consult with Alexander the Great somewhere in time. Or else you'll continue to be a Powerslave to aperture fever. All of this may give you fear of the dark. 

 

Sorry, had to go there. rockon.gif

 

Jon has always been down on these 6 in f8 scopes. Either one between 8 inch f6 and 6 in f8 are very good. You won't be able to make a bad choice between them. There are pluses and minuses to each of these.  The 8 in f6 is probably more common choice for those that can afford it.  However, I think the 6 in f8 is really good and very easy to carry all at one time around the yard. F8 is a bit easier going on eyepieces.  Etc.


Edited by GOLGO13, 09 May 2020 - 09:40 AM.

 


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