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Astro-Physics binos

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#51 Glassthrower

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Posted 22 July 2006 - 08:15 AM

Art -

Good idea. And sounds plausible to boot. If your calculations are correct, then the 22x85 would be barely within my range. The 25x100 (or 20x110) will likely be priced out of my reach.

Maybe I need to move from Louisiana and get a job with GO or Oberwerk! Then I could have the employee-discount. Hey Kev and Zach - you guys need a warehouseman/forklift operator? .... or data entry clerk.... or janitor....???

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

#52 Mr. Bill

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 01:41 PM

Just bought AP's last pair of 15x70s in stock.....if Roland likes them, they're good enough for me. Been looking for a good pair of grab and go as the 25x150s are a little too much for that task.
:lol:

Thinking of selling the Oberwerk 25x100 45 degree ocular binoculars...anyone on this forum interested?? Contact me offline.

#53 Glassthrower

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 02:16 PM

Been looking for a good pair of grab and go as the 25x150s are a little too much for that task.


Ah comon Bill, you saw Kevin's Oberwerk avatar here on CN - those 25x150's make a great hand-held glass!

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

#54 Mr. Bill

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 03:49 PM


Been looking for a good pair of grab and go as the 25x150s are a little too much for that task.


Ah comon Bill, you saw Kevin's Oberwerk avatar here on CN - those 25x150's make a great hand-held glass!

Clear dark skies...

MikeG


Hi Mike

Kevin's are full of helium instead of nitrogen.

:smirk:

#55 milt

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 08:13 PM

Just bought AP's last pair of 15x70s in stock


Boy, that didn't take long! Let us know how you like them, Bill.

#56 Mr. Bill

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 08:15 PM

Just bought AP's last pair of 15x70s in stock


Boy, that didn't take long! Let us know how you like them, Bill.


Plan on posting a review.....

#57 Glassthrower

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Posted 24 July 2006 - 09:42 PM

Plan on posting a review.....


I look forward to reading it. As an owner of big premium glass, you are in a position to judge the vendor claim of Fujinon-like performance. As of yet, there are not many reviews of this new class of import binocular.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

#58 edwincjones

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 09:19 AM

On the Binocular Astronomy yahoo group, there is a current post that states the AP binoculars are equal/simular to the Fujinon 16x70s in optics and build from one who has had them since 2/06

edj

#59 EdZ

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 10:49 AM

On the Binocular Astronomy yahoo group, there is a current post that states the AP binoculars are equal/simular to the Fujinon 16x70s in optics and build from one who has had them since 2/06

edj


Same binocular. Yes, probably. That poster seems to have obtaimed his through APM-America, not AstroPhysics, since they were not available through AstroPhysics until just about a month ago.

Roland did say there were some things he found in the original samples (back in May) that he asked to have changed. He announced they were available from AP just this month.

edz

#60 Jeff Blair

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:59 PM

APM has these listed on AM today

#61 Erik D

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:25 PM

Same binocular. Yes, probably. That poster seems to have obtained his through APM-America......

edz



Ed or anyone else,

Can you please post a link to APM America? I did a quick search and this came up:

http://www.apmamerica.com/

I know there WAS a APM USA based in MA but they ceased operation a few years back. Did Markus find a new partner in the US?

I'd be interested in a comparison of the APM 20/40X-100mm 45deg and the GO version. Here is a quote from the APM Ad:

"..... again we received a limited run of selected quality made APM Binoculars 100 mm 45° . Only a few of this shipment are left. This higher then usual made quality cannot be delivered to us in any quantity, since the factory have to spend extra time and care to fullfill our tight specifications and tolerances...."


Erik D

#62 BillC

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:53 PM

If this product--now coming from several sources--was as good as the Fujinon, logic dictates that the manufacturer would capitalize on saying so.

However, while another legend is obviously in the making, The manufacturer did not represent his product that way with me. As I see it:

A good product--yes.
A VERY good product for the money--yes.
A Fujinon killer--only in the minds of those who will never spent the money for a Fujinon.

But then, that's just me.

Cheers,

Bill

#63 Mr. Bill

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:08 PM

If this product--now coming from several sources--was as good as the Fujinon, logic dictates that the manufacturer would capitalize on saying so.

However, while another legend is obviously in the making, The manufacturer did not represent his product that way with me. As I see it:

A good product--yes.
A VERY good product for the money--yes.
A Fujinon killer--only in the minds of those who will never spent the money for a Fujinon.

But then, that's just me.

Cheers,

Bill


We'll see..... AP has a liberal return polcy. I don't think that they were characterized as being "Fujinon killers" just being as good as. Im a pretty good judge of glass....and I've looked through some Fujis over the years including the 16x70s.

A little "fun in the summertme."


:question:

#64 edwincjones

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 06:37 PM

"fujinon killer"

I would be happy to see someone come up with a "fujinon killer" at 2/3 or less the price with the same quality;
and it will happen someday. Is it happening now?

edj
fuji 25x150
fuji 10x70 and 7x50 in past

#65 KennyJ

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 01:22 AM

I've already found a " Fujinon Killer " -- at least for the 16 x 70 FMT SX model -- and it cost me nothing !

It's called ASTIGMATISM ! :-)

Kenny

#66 BillC

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 02:07 AM

First, Bill and then Ed.

Bill, I was talking about measurable quality in a uniformity of production, not popularity. Many FABULOUS binos have been replaced because they weren’t popular enough with the masses. Have you noticed just how many folks on CN are talking about having to return their binos, or asking whether they should? What is wrong with this picture? Obviously you have the money not to worry about such things. However, even just 20 years ago--had the internet been with us--"return" threads would have been all but non-existent. What do we learn from this?

Ed: A Fujinon killer at two thirds the price? I, for one, am ALL for it. My money is as hard to come by as the next fellow's. However, I am not ready to get myself worked up into a frenzy, yet.

If, the product I receive in the next few days is as good as I suspect, I might take on the line. If I have to tweak what comes into to store just to keep our reputation up--as some distributors tell me they are doing right now--I will have to pass; I don't have time to play rework games.

By the way, some time ago, I shared my frustration concerning having to spend $74.00 to buy a used binocular just so I could get a $4.00 part for one of my customers? Well, that was at one of those times when Kenny and Bill T were calling me “cryptic.”

That company, with the 25 year warranty but no parts department . . . the late Minolta.

And, on the subject of Minolta: although they have faded away, repairs have been turned over to THK Optical in southern California. They have done two jobs for me lately and both have been done correctly.

Cheers,

Bill

#67 Mr. Bill

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 02:32 AM

Hi BillC....

Good points you make. OTOH, have you tried to deal with Fujinon directly?
Folks at Baker Marine will agree with me that customer service from Fujinon is practically nonexistent.

I bought the AP 15x70s on the strength of Roland's reputation that they are a quality product and that ultimately he stands behind them. I also am curious just how good the best examples of Chinese optics are these days.

Obviously, I could have bought the Fujis and been done with it but I have a perverse streak that is always looking for the bargain. I should receive them Fri so will spend the weekend evaluating and give first impressions next week.
:cool:

#68 XT10Guy

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 07:01 AM

I should receive them Fri so will spend the weekend evaluating and give first impressions next week.


I am one who is looking forward to your review! I own the Oberwerk "Ultras" version of these and have had them for about six weeks or so. I even tried to sell them "almost new" for 300 shipped but could not - no takers. One hit but that was an offer to buy them for only 200! Since I already have them, I am curious as to what you all think of them. Clear skies to you this weekend!!!

Bob

#69 Glassthrower

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 07:29 AM

have you tried to deal with Fujinon directly?
Folks at Baker Marine will agree with me that customer service from Fujinon is practically nonexistent.


Which frankly, I find to be irritating to say the least. And I don't even own a Fujinon. But considering the premium price Fuji glass commands, I would fully expect to have FIRST RATE FAWNING SERVILE OBSEQUIOUS customer service. The fact that they look down their noses at the customer and take a "tough luck" approach to their product - that alone would make me consider a different vendor, regardless of the quality of the glass.

Sorry for the mini-rant....but I find it amazing that Fujinon ignores it's customers after they pay out all that money.

FWIW, I am holding $500+ dollars, ready to throw at Roland, GO, Oberwerk, or whoever offers a 22x85IF version of this new binocular....hence my interest.

Clear dark skies...

MikeG

#70 Les

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 08:14 AM

If, the product I receive in the next few days is as good as I suspect, I might take on the line


Bill,

Looking forward to your review of these. Also, please don't forget the review of the next batch of Fujinons you were to receive that you alluded to in a previous thread concerning possible deteriorating quality of the Fujis.

Thanks,
Les

#71 Alan French

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 08:28 AM

I sold my Fujinon 14x70s because my astigmatism had gotten worse and they did not have enough eye relief for me to see the entire field with my glasses on. I had a chance to try the then new 16x70s at TSP one year, and they didn't have enough eye relief either (otherwise I might have purchased a pair).

The new AP 15x70s do have enough eye relief for me, and I consider that a big plus. To me, there is no point to owning any binocular that does not allow me to see the entire field while wearing my glasses. YMMV.

Clear skies, Alan

#72 rushintuit

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 08:37 AM

Good one Kenny!

#73 BillC

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 12:30 PM

Bill,

Looking forward to your review of these. Also, please don't forget the review of the next batch of Fujinons you were to receive that you alluded to in a previous thread concerning possible deteriorating quality of the Fujis.

Thanks,
Les


Hi Les: still waiting.

I did get several new 7x50 FMTs and FMTRs. All had their traditional quality and were collimated withing a fraction of old JTII standards and, without a heafy impact will remain that way throughout their lives, whle some to many of the binos being touted on CN these days come out of spec right out of the box.

Cheers,

Bill

#74 edwincjones

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 12:32 PM

Fuji coustomer service story:

In 2002 I ordered my 25x150s with Larry at Universal Astronomics. Larry contacted fuji and reserved a pair, but then fuji sold MY pair and we had to reorder from the next shipment from Japan.
When the binoculars arrived, the infro said that the warrenty was not good unless I sent in the card, but I had no card. Multiple constacts with the fuji office in NJ were unsuccessful, but Larry said he would take care of any problems that developed.
The other saving grace is that the binoculars are as good as the coustomer service is bad, thus no problems in 4 years.

edj

#75 BillC

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 01:00 PM

Hi BillC....

Good points you make. OTOH, have you tried to deal with Fujinon directly? Folks at Baker Marine will agree with me that customer service from Fujinon is practically nonexistent. :cool:


Do I work with Fujinon directly? I put’em on the map in Western Washington and carry about 20 of their models.

Yes, THEY are a pain to work with. However, the THEY is really a HE. Fujinon proper has not varied its methodology much. It was the HE who closed the parts department and who leaves it to the dealers to fend for themselves. But you must realize that binoculars to Fuji Film is just as small and unimportant as Konica-Minolta was to Sony; or as Bushnell was to B&L; or as Tommy Smothers was to his mother and brother Dickie.

And without a parts department, I have do deal directly with Fujinon in Japan and this gum on their shoes program makes things incredibly slow. Usually, I just buy from Brian. Considering, my company was doing business 40 years before his was founded, you think that doesn’t stick in my craw? In addition, I have to pay him a markup. That is only fair and I would certainly do the same. However, that means I have to charge MY customers a bit more.

When I finally have the good sense to pull the plug on binocular repair, headaches coming from dealing with Fujinon will be among some of the best reasons!!!

NOW, having said that: They still have the best show in town, and I don’t feel like throwing the baby out with the wash.

People on CN are so bloody used to threads on poor optical and mechanical performance and collimation on the stuff that is passing for good binoculars these days that they forget there are binoculars out there that will provide excellent performance (including collimation) and durability throughout their lives and into their grandchildren—without ever a need to go to the shop or get a replacement part.

I support anyone who wants to bellyache about Fujinon’s method of doing business. However, I wish people could separate BUSINESS from PRODUCT.

[When I speak of Fujinon, I refer to the traditional Fujinon line—not much of the third-party stuff that bears the Fujinon name.]

Cheers,

BillC


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