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Brand New TeleVue: Is this level of paint damage normal?

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#1 trias702

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 03:42 PM

Apologies for this post, as normally I would just call up Tele Vue to get an answer to this question, but since they're closed for the foreseeable future, I was hoping I might get some comments from other people who have purchased brand new Tele Vue scopes in the past (any model).

 

So I recently purchased a brand new, white TV-85. Upon taking it out of the box, I immediately noticed it has some scratches/marring in the paint, just above the focuser. Here is a link to a HD photo showing the marring. It's circled in pink, zoom in a bit and you will definitely see that some kind of a serated tool has definitely scraped the paint: https://drive.google...sbaZ44HMm5JZWUi

 

Okay, so maybe I got a bad one. I returned it, and ordered a new one. This one has even more problems. On the bottom side, there are loads of paint chips, shown in the photo marked "bottom_scratches", and all circled in red. These are small grey chips in the paint on the new scope. Yes, they're pretty small, but they're still annoying. Additionally, there is a weird cigarette burn looking hole on the focuser (circled in blue, in the "bottom_scratches" photo, far right), but this may be part of the manufacturing process. I can't remember if the first scope had one too. There is also a similar gouge on the top, like something from a serrated cutting tool, just above the focuser, same area as the first scope had, and you can see it in the photo marked "top_scratch". The "Made in USA" sticker is also not fully affixed to the scope body:

 

bottom_scratches and top_scratch here: https://drive.google...l_Zf44zgy0Rzh1m

 

 

Both of these scopes are from two different distributors. The first one is serial 4090, then second is 4060.

 

Is this level of paint damage and marring normal for a brand new Tele Vue scope out of the box? To me personally, it seems unacceptable, especially given the price Tele Vue charge for their products and their reputation. I have seen cheap Chinese telescopes and Tascos which have zero paint damage out of the box, and yet two TV-85s in a row have some level of paint damage.

 

So maybe this is normal for Tele Vue? Optically, both TV-85s are fine, but this is the first time in my life buying a Tele Vue scope and I was expecting everything to be perfect out of the box, but maybe this sort of paint damage is normal for them?

 

 


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#2 Erik Bakker

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 03:49 PM

In my experience, this should not be with a new quality scope. Have no personal experience with a TeleVue new out of the box. Wish they were open to take your phone call and discuss this firsthand with you. Fist sample looks on the verge of OK to me. Second sample a bit less so. Either way, my personal focus would be on the quality of the optics, tube innards, alignment and focuser though. A perfect sample in those regard would be OK for me, even with some slight cosmetically blemishes. But ideally it should not be there.

 

I did have a a complete circumpheral paintcrack in the middle of the OTA, where the 2 halves are joined. That was in my new Astro-Physics EDF130 years ago, not long after I received it. Did get a quick return authorisation from them to get it repaired under warranty, never bothered to send it back for that though. Was too busy observing with it. Did sell it after de-oiling optics also occurred and were repaired under warranty though. Enough was enough for me. But service from them was great and swift.

 

Hope you get a great scope to your satisfaction soon!


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#3 Codbear

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 03:53 PM

The only new Televue telescope I have purchased is the NP101is last September when I picked it up at OPT...it was in pristine condition, with no marring or paint chipping at all.

 

As an aside, I purchased a used NP127 a couple of years ago that was 10 years old and that was in fantastic condition as well with no chipping or marring that I could see and no touching up done or needed.



#4 wrnchhead

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:01 PM

I am confident the TeleVue guys are unaware. I would also expect perfection in the fit and finish, on anything new really, let alone something at this price point. I have gotten some NIB eyepieces with dust and fingerprints, but that can be cleaned. I am also not a nit picker. The issue for me would be resale value. It's instantly depreciated because it looks like it has sustained damage. Also, can you imagine buying a new car and it has scratched paint? No one would expect you to just live with it. I bet the retailer or TV themselves will take care of you. Sure frustrating though!


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#5 starguy4

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:25 PM

I have owned several new TV scopes over the years including a TV 85 with no cosmetic/paint issues. In the first pic, the scratches are difficult to actually see. Did you purchase these from well known reputable dealers? TeleVue seems to be having issues with availability of certain items including scopes and mounts/tripods and this is long before Covid-19. Hopefully, these scopes are still being assembled at TV.



#6 trias702

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:40 PM

I have owned several new TV scopes over the years including a TV 85 with no cosmetic/paint issues. In the first pic, the scratches are difficult to actually see. Did you purchase these from well known reputable dealers? TeleVue seems to be having issues with availability of certain items including scopes and mounts/tripods and this is long before Covid-19. Hopefully, these scopes are still being assembled at TV.

Yes, both purchased from very well known, highly reviewed dealers which are household names.

 

And yes, both dealers have given me full refunds on both scopes, which is good. Sadly, I no longer have it in me to try for a third TV-85. I'm going to move on and buy from a different manufacturer instead, either Tak or Borg.

 

Thank you to everyone for the replies so far, good to know I'm not just being nitpicky in rejecting both scopes, even though their optics were fine. If these were used scopes, at used prices, I wouldn't care, but for brand new, fresh out of the box, I expect much higher quality from a brand like Tele Vue.



#7 Doug D.

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:44 PM

My new TV scopes have always been pristine. Come to think if it - so have my "used" ones.  


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#8 ianatcn

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 04:44 PM

I have purchased four TV telescopes from dealers in the UK.  The first, a Genesis which I sold when upgrading to the SDF.  I now have a TV76 and TV127is.  All four have been perfect.  Not a single scratch or blemish.  I know TV are fastidious in ensuring any instrument or accessory that leaves them is in perfect condition.  Their 'blem' sales at NEAF attest to this.  I would assume that the scratches you experienced occurred after the telescope left their headquarters.

 

I have to agree with Eric though.  I am more interested in the function of the instrument than the cosmetics.  Both my current TV 'scopes give perfect star images and there is no way I would have return either of them for a cosmetic blemish. However, nor do I think you should put up with a less than perfect instrument if that is important to you.  

 

It is a pity they are not open at present.  



#9 BillP

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 05:42 PM

The mark on the 1st scope I would probably have lived even if new out the box.  But all those things on the 2nd one, no way!  Unacceptable.


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#10 SeattleScott

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 07:45 PM

The mark on the 1st scope I would probably have lived even if new out the box. But all those things on the 2nd one, no way! Unacceptable.

Kind of what I was thinking.

#11 turtle86

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 07:47 PM

I probably would’ve been OK with the first scope, but that second one would’ve been completely unacceptable.  

I bought a used NP101 last year and even though it’s probably 10 years old it still looks almost new.  Since the paint on TV scopes is quite thick and durable, one has to wonder what happened with the second scope.


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#12 tonyt

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 07:47 PM

Televue paint is pretty tough and the two second hand Televue's I've owned had perfect paint.


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#13 stevew

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 08:22 PM

 

Both of these scopes are from two different distributors. The first one is serial 4090, then second is 4060.

 

As the scopes are only 30 serial numbers apart, I'd guess they were painted on the same day. Probably a new spray gun, or a new guy in the spray booth.

Still they should have been caught during a QC check.

There is rarely a complaint about new TV scopes. I'm absolutely positive that if Tele Vue  was open they would have looked after the problem quickly.


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#14 Allan Wade

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 09:35 PM

All my TeleVue scopes have been in flawless condition. The fit and finish and mechanical quality of the TeleVue scopes has a very deserving reputation. I’m a bit obsessive, but even I could have lived with the first TV85. I would have given it a very good star test before sending it back. My TV85 has a poor star test and it shows during observing, while my TV76 had an essentially perfect star test. There is some variability in the TeleVue optics so I would have definitely used it as an opportunity to secure a sample with good optics.


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#15 sydney

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 09:57 PM

I’m glad that you returned it to the dealers.

 

My new TeleVue NP101is arrived with pinched optics. I had to pay return shipping and then pay shipping again to get it back after they worked on it. The tech verified that the optics were pinched even in warm weather from a spacer that was not to specifications. I did not get the scope back for 3 months. The tech told me that they were too busy to work on it. When I received it, it still had pinched optics, damage to the dewshield, and spots of glue on the front objective. TeleVue told me to ship it back to them again. They denied my request for a new scope.

The vendor then agreed to let me exchange it for a new Tak FSQ-106 while they dealt with TeleVue. While waiting for my scope to return, my wife kept saying "I can't believe how patient you are being through all of this." I always replied "Don't worry, TeleVue will take care of it." Now I chuckle whenever I see their warranty advertised.
I often wonder who has the scope now and would they recognize pinched optics?
I still have the paperwork (and photos, e-mails, voice mails from the tech, etc.).


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#16 gjanke

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 10:42 PM

Yes, both purchased from very well known, highly reviewed dealers which are household names.

 

And yes, both dealers have given me full refunds on both scopes, which is good. Sadly, I no longer have it in me to try for a third TV-85. I'm going to move on and buy from a different manufacturer instead, either Tak or Borg.

 

Thank you to everyone for the replies so far, good to know I'm not just being nitpicky in rejecting both scopes, even though their optics were fine. If these were used scopes, at used prices, I wouldn't care, but for brand new, fresh out of the box, I expect much higher quality from a brand like Tele Vue.

Sorry I really don’t get the point of the post. You first state you would call TeleVue but they are closed so you need some group in put....So far so good , but then on your next post you state you’ve returned both scopes for full refunds and will not buy another TeleVue and you’re considering buying a Tak. So now I wonder why does TeleVue being closed have anything to do with  your issues. It’s not time sensitive and you have all of your money back. 

 

You take great care not to mention the companies you bought from yet you don’t even consider the damage might have been from their mishandling or issues with shipping. No, its just straight to TeleVue sucks and what poor QA they must have. So why would you call a company that you have returned both new scopes? You wouldn’t . So truly the point of the post Is to bash TeleVue.

 

That’s really not fair to try and lead people to think that this great family owned company and a pillar to the astronomy community is passing subpar products. They deserve better than.


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#17 JimVision

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 10:43 PM

Hi @trias702

 

I've had my brand new TV85 for one week now and it's optics are sharp and clear.  I'm keeping it.

 

But that being said, my new TV85 (serial #4131) did have one nick in it.  See drawn circle in photo.  It's about 4mm wide.  Just under 1 mm deep.  Near the "Made in USA" sticker.  My fingernail gets stuck in it.  It's as though someone was testing to see if the paint had fully cured.  But that's the only blemish.  It's almost nothing.  Not like your two examples.  Sorry to hear about this.

 

TV85 Nick

 

Jim



#18 Heywood

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 11:17 PM

Tele Vue products are expensive and should be perfect, period.


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#19 DeanD

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 01:31 AM

Just a comment about the "weird cigarette burn looking hole". This is normal for TV scopes: on my TV76 this is 3mm wide, and on the bottom front of the focuser housing (can't really tell size and position from your photo): it is a painted bit of filler covering a hole where presumably there is an attachment or adjustment screw hiding. Sometimes the finish over the filler can look a bit untidy as in your photo.


Edited by DeanD, 23 May 2020 - 07:42 AM.


#20 Kunama

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 03:17 AM

The OP has quite a valid question, he has bought two new scopes, both with marks, and asks is this normal.

From the replies it seems most scopes have arrived unmarked, however, that isn't the OP's experience.

Merely asking if these marks are normal and to be expected is hardly bashing Televue as a company, or is the OP only supposed to report if the scope is perfect......


Edited by Kunama, 23 May 2020 - 03:19 AM.

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#21 MarkGregory

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 03:27 AM

Just a comment about the "weird cigarette burn looking hole". This is normal for TV scopes: on my TV76 this is 3mm wide, and on the bottom front of the focuser housing (can't really tell size and position from your photo): it is a painted bit of filler covering a hole where presumably there is an attachment or adjustment screw hiding. Sometimes the finish over the filler can look a bit untidy as in your photo.

 

BTW, I agree with gjanke above: I am not sure what the point of the thread is if you aren't going to buy another TV scope and have already got full refunds for both... 

interesting, just learned something. Thanks. 



#22 25585

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 03:59 AM

Once again I wonder why Tele Vue does not take emails! 



#23 DeanD

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 07:46 AM

The OP has quite a valid question, he has bought two new scopes, both with marks, and asks is this normal.

From the replies it seems most scopes have arrived unmarked, however, that isn't the OP's experience.

Merely asking if these marks are normal and to be expected is hardly bashing Televue as a company, or is the OP only supposed to report if the scope is perfect......

True, my comment was unnecessary and is deleted.


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#24 gjanke

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 12:20 PM

The OP has quite a valid question, he has bought two new scopes, both with marks, and asks is this normal.

From the replies it seems most scopes have arrived unmarked, however, that isn't the OP's experience.

Merely asking if these marks are normal and to be expected is hardly bashing Televue as a company, or is the OP only supposed to report if the scope is perfect......

It wasn't fair or valid. It was more of an editorial.  The way the question was phrased would lead one to concluded it was in fact Televue who's at fault for the damage.

 

Maybe it was TV, or the vendor, or the shipping company or the final recipient of the telescope. That all aside, the OP stated he wasn't going to buy another TV but a Tak and had been refunded his money in full, twice.

 

Here are a few excerpts from the original post:

 

"Is this level of paint damage and marring normal for a brand new Tele Vue scope out of the box?" Questions TV quality.

 

"The price Tele Vue charge for their products and their reputation." Questions TV value.

 

"I have seen cheap Chinese telescopes and Tascos which have zero paint damage out of the box, and yet two TV-85s in a row have some level of paint damage." Question TV's quality and value to Chinese companies 

 

So maybe this is normal for Tele Vue? Optically, both TV-85s are fine, .... but maybe this sort of paint damage is normal for them?" Major dig at TV stating damaged scopes are the norm.

 

So why even pose the question if you have your money back and and you're not going to buy the brand again for no other purpose than to bash the company.  BTW Post #15 clearly is bashing. 

 

A valid question would have been; I have bought two TVs and they appear to have some issues with the paint on the tube anyone have a similar issue with a new purchase? 

 

To be clear Matt, I enjoy your posts and pictures so this isn't just to be contrary, its about being fair and I don't believe the OP was fair to TV in anyway shape or form. 


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#25 trias702

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Posted 23 May 2020 - 01:37 PM

It wasn't fair or valid. It was more of an editorial.  The way the question was phrased would lead one to concluded it was in fact Televue who's at fault for the damage.

 

Maybe it was TV, or the vendor, or the shipping company or the final recipient of the telescope. That all aside, the OP stated he wasn't going to buy another TV but a Tak and had been refunded his money in full, twice.

 

Here are a few excerpts from the original post:

 

"Is this level of paint damage and marring normal for a brand new Tele Vue scope out of the box?" Questions TV quality.

 

"The price Tele Vue charge for their products and their reputation." Questions TV value.

 

"I have seen cheap Chinese telescopes and Tascos which have zero paint damage out of the box, and yet two TV-85s in a row have some level of paint damage." Question TV's quality and value to Chinese companies 

 

So maybe this is normal for Tele Vue? Optically, both TV-85s are fine, .... but maybe this sort of paint damage is normal for them?" Major dig at TV stating damaged scopes are the norm.

 

So why even pose the question if you have your money back and and you're not going to buy the brand again for no other purpose than to bash the company.  BTW Post #15 clearly is bashing. 

 

A valid question would have been; I have bought two TVs and they appear to have some issues with the paint on the tube anyone have a similar issue with a new purchase? 

 

To be clear Matt, I enjoy your posts and pictures so this isn't just to be contrary, its about being fair and I don't believe the OP was fair to TV in anyway shape or form. 

If you're going to slag me off, try having a bit more reading comprehension in your life first. I said nothing derogatory about TV in any way, merely stated my experiences with buying two brand new TV scopes, which btw, I generally loved and wanted to keep, but was curious if the level of damage was normal or not. I chose to air on the side of caution and refund them, and it sounds like that was the right call, as everybody else who has commented here on buying new TV scopes has received perfect specimens with zero damage, aside from Jim, who also has some noticeable paint damage in a 4000 series scope. So something may actually be off with this series of scopes. Does that mean TV as a whole company is shite? No, not at all, and I never said that nor insinuated it. Their eyepieces are fantastic, I own several, and have never had any issues.

 

Also, TV scopes ship factory sealed, in two boxes, an outer box, then bubble wrap, and an inner sarcophagus, inside of which is a thick foam padded case, and the telescope is inside sheathed in more bubble wrap. It is impossible for paint damage of this sort to occur during shipping. There is nothing sharp whatsoever in contact with the scope body which could do that sort of chipping/serated damage, unless someone stabs a giant sword into the entire box. Both my boxes were undamaged and factory sealed when I received them. So this damage was caused at the TV factory, unless both retailers are nefarious and the scopes are prior returns or secretly used, although I highly doubt that, as both retailers are well known and have high reviews and opinions on these forums.

 

You seem to have the hump about anyone writing any negative experiences they have had with TV, and you seem to see someone disparaging your favourite company when literally no one else in this thread sees that at all. I urge you to sort yourself out and reconsider how you speak to strangers who have not wronged you in any way. And yes, I'm going with Tak for now, only because I've struck out twice in a row with TV, through no fault of my own, and I'd rather not risk a third bad scope. Otherwise I have no axe to grind with TV, I'm merely gathering data points to see if my experience is an outlier or not. Judging by the replies, it is quite clearly an outlier, and the two scopes I received are not representative of TV generally, and I was right to refund them and expect a higher standard of quality.


Edited by trias702, 23 May 2020 - 01:41 PM.

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