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Brand New TeleVue: Is this level of paint damage normal?

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#101 AdamJ

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 08:32 AM

Apologies for this post, as normally I would just call up Tele Vue to get an answer to this question, but since they're closed for the foreseeable future, I was hoping I might get some comments from other people who have purchased brand new Tele Vue scopes in the past (any model).

 

So I recently purchased a brand new, white TV-85. Upon taking it out of the box, I immediately noticed it has some scratches/marring in the paint, just above the focuser. Here is a link to a HD photo showing the marring. It's circled in pink, zoom in a bit and you will definitely see that some kind of a serated tool has definitely scraped the paint: https://drive.google...sbaZ44HMm5JZWUi

 

Okay, so maybe I got a bad one. I returned it, and ordered a new one. This one has even more problems. On the bottom side, there are loads of paint chips, shown in the photo marked "bottom_scratches", and all circled in red. These are small grey chips in the paint on the new scope. Yes, they're pretty small, but they're still annoying. Additionally, there is a weird cigarette burn looking hole on the focuser (circled in blue, in the "bottom_scratches" photo, far right), but this may be part of the manufacturing process. I can't remember if the first scope had one too. There is also a similar gouge on the top, like something from a serrated cutting tool, just above the focuser, same area as the first scope had, and you can see it in the photo marked "top_scratch". The "Made in USA" sticker is also not fully affixed to the scope body:

 

bottom_scratches and top_scratch here: https://drive.google...l_Zf44zgy0Rzh1m

 

 

Both of these scopes are from two different distributors. The first one is serial 4090, then second is 4060.

 

Is this level of paint damage and marring normal for a brand new Tele Vue scope out of the box? To me personally, it seems unacceptable, especially given the price Tele Vue charge for their products and their reputation. I have seen cheap Chinese telescopes and Tascos which have zero paint damage out of the box, and yet two TV-85s in a row have some level of paint damage.

 

So maybe this is normal for Tele Vue? Optically, both TV-85s are fine, but this is the first time in my life buying a Tele Vue scope and I was expecting everything to be perfect out of the box, but maybe this sort of paint damage is normal for them?

Should it happen no. Would I send a complaint yes. Would I send the scope back.....huum I would be more worried about if I got a good lens sample as opposed to a few nicks on the tube. If I did a star test and it looked fantastic I would not send it back as I could end up with a consmetically perfect scope with a inferior optic in it.

 

Adam


 

#102 Jeff Gardner

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 11:28 AM

TV is not always so great to deal with. A few years ago I bought a brand new TV-76 and it had approx. 6 defects along with a case that looked like it was used. I sent the scope back and Uncle Al offered a new dew shield and case. TV would not send me a new scope to make good on the transaction. I asked for a refund and made a personal call to Al stating my disappointment as this was my 4th TV scope so I knew what to expect. He told me I was too picky, the scope was within manufacturing tolerances and we would have to agree to disagree. Shortly after I received a phone call from the owner of Highpoint Scientific apologizing about what happened. A very disappointing experience for sure as my 19 year old TV -85 is in better condition than the new scope I received. I used the money to buy a really nice second hand NP 101 that was cleaner than the TV-76.


 

#103 LDW47

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 11:46 PM

Should it happen no. Would I send a complaint yes. Would I send the scope back.....huum I would be more worried about if I got a good lens sample as opposed to a few nicks on the tube. If I did a star test and it looked fantastic I would not send it back as I could end up with a consmetically perfect scope with a inferior optic in it.

 

Adam

Or maybe end up with a different brand of scope with better QC !  Clear branded skiys !


 

#104 LDW47

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Posted 31 May 2020 - 11:48 PM

TV is not always so great to deal with. A few years ago I bought a brand new TV-76 and it had approx. 6 defects along with a case that looked like it was used. I sent the scope back and Uncle Al offered a new dew shield and case. TV would not send me a new scope to make good on the transaction. I asked for a refund and made a personal call to Al stating my disappointment as this was my 4th TV scope so I knew what to expect. He told me I was too picky, the scope was within manufacturing tolerances and we would have to agree to disagree. Shortly after I received a phone call from the owner of Highpoint Scientific apologizing about what happened. A very disappointing experience for sure as my 19 year old TV -85 is in better condition than the new scope I received. I used the money to buy a really nice second hand NP 101 that was cleaner than the TV-76.

There are companys that never admit a wrong, its always the other guys fault ! After a while you can read them like a book, it can be so obvious !  Clear obvious skize !


 

#105 sydney

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 07:42 PM

Or maybe end up with a different brand of scope with better QC !  Clear branded skiys !

True.  My scopes from AP and Tak are exceptional in every way.


 

#106 trias702

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 10:43 PM

True.  My scopes from AP and Tak are exceptional in every way.

Agreed. I ordered a Tak FC100FZ and it was exceptional quality. I returned it as it was too big for me, but ordered an FSQ-85 after the TV-85 debacle, and the FSQ-85 is flawless. Fantastic build quality, optics, and most importantly, quality control.

 

TeleVue could stand to learn a lot from Takahashi.


 

#107 YAOG

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:04 PM

"Bus load of people" = literally a bus load? like a tourist bus or something?  Having been to B & H many times over the years, I've never experienced anything like this.  Nor do I know anyone who's had a similar experience.  I've always been able to shop and browse there at leisure.  Sounds to me as if you happened to be there during some very unusual, one-off event, and I would advise anyone reading this thread not to take your unfortunate experience as typical.

 

Agree with Paul G about Company 7.

 

 

My experience agrees with yours. I live in NYC and have browsed and shopped at B&H many times and have never been given any rush, bum or otherwise. Hyperbole is a way of life for some.

I have been to B&H many times over the years and it was not the first time the place was busy but never like that. This happened many years ago but I've only been there once when an actual bus load of people showed up and maybe they thought I was one of the bussed in tourists but when I am trying to buy over $10,000 (back when $10K was a lot of gear, pre-digital) in Canon gear I would think they would want to take care of me. On that day B&H was lacking, I have never felt ignored and hurried before but on that day B&H did not get my business. I took it back to Calumet L.A. and they matched the cheapest prices I showed them on the internet so naturally I bought more gear. 


 

#108 YAOG

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Posted 01 June 2020 - 11:13 PM

As I have been saying, TeleVue was once a great telescope company but time and the market standards have passed them by. Unless Uncle Al lets his team get back on the top quality horse and bothers to actually design some newer more highly corrected telescopes using the latest tools, materials, manufacturing methods and quality controls to bring them to the forefront of the market TeleVue will pass into obscurity as a telescope maker sooner than later. 


 

#109 25585

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 05:02 AM

As I have been saying, TeleVue was once a great telescope company but time and the market standards have passed them by. Unless Uncle Al lets his team get back on the top quality horse and bothers to actually design some newer more highly corrected telescopes using the latest tools, materials, manufacturing methods and quality controls to bring them to the forefront of the market TeleVue will pass into obscurity as a telescope maker sooner than later. 

They would sell more scopes if prices were lowered.


 

#110 gjanke

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 06:46 AM

FYI Televue is open again if anyone cares to call and chat about this topic with them.

 

 

Dear Astronomy Friends,

On the first full day of spring, March 20, when Tele Vue’s COVID-19 pandemic closing notice was put on our blog, we wrote: “We are all living through a time of great uncertainty when we do not know exactly what will come in the weeks and months ahead.” It has been a long journey, and while this crisis is by no means over, today we are all healthy and ready to fully serve our customers!

Thanks to all who supported us over the past seventy-three days! We read your kind words on our Facebook page and even got letters through the mail! Our blog newsletter saw an increase in subscriptions and a multitude of amateurs continued to @televue on social media as they found more time for their favorite hobby and “sheltered in space.”

We’re starting the process of restocking the shelves at our dealers, answering your questions, building scopes, doing our famous eyepiece quality control checks, and becoming more active on social media. While the pandemic continues to curtail events and Tele Vue’s appearances, we’ll update our website Tour Schedule, social media, and announce on the blog when and where we’ll be showing products in person.

Please continue to Stay Safe and Clear Skies!

David Nagler


Edited by gjanke, 02 June 2020 - 10:23 AM.

 

#111 25585

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 09:33 AM

I was told by FLO that TV was opening up again, so my Dioptrx will not be delayed much longer.


 

#112 Swamp Fox

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:21 AM

Or maybe end up with a different brand of scope with better QC !  Clear branded skiys !

I've been using Tele Vue products for 30+ years with no issues. IMO no need to end up with a different brand, QC is just fine.

 

Clear skies,

 

-Mark


 

#113 trias702

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:25 AM

I've been using Tele Vue products for 30+ years with no issues. IMO no need to end up with a different brand, QC is just fine.

 

Clear skies,

 

-Mark

Unless you're me, who just ordered two TV-85 scopes in a row and both arrived with damage from the factory.


 

#114 alnitak22

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:41 AM

Unless you're me, who just ordered two TV-85 scopes in a row and both arrived with damage from the factory.

Why are you persisting with this? Haven’t you moved on? If you’re happy why keep bashing? You weren’t satisfied...so what? Many are and will be and now you’re happy so why the continued animus? Perhaps there was an agenda with your OP? Sure seems like it. Why didn’t you post while the scopes were in your possession instead of waiting until afterwards when you had already decided to go another route? At any rate, your question has LONG been addressed. It is not normal for there to be any cosmetic issues with TV scopes as many have pointed out here. So enjoy your scope that you have. There are buyers of EVERY scope that have had issues. 


 

#115 YAOG

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:56 AM

They would sell more scopes if prices were lowered.

But they could leave the price higher if they actually designed and delivered a modern higher-end product. People still love the brand, I know I do. 

 

I still have maybe 14-16 pieces of current TeleVue eyepieces, PowerMates and Barlows and that's after having sold off 4 Ethos, 3 Radians, several duplicate Panoptics, Naglers, a new 2" Everbrite mirror diagonal and a couple modern TV Plossls last year. Clearly I'm a TV fan and user but their new scope offerings are weak sauce in today's market. 


 

#116 trias702

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 10:57 AM

Why are you persisting with this? Haven’t you moved on? If you’re happy why keep bashing? You weren’t satisfied...so what? Many are and will be and now you’re happy so why the continued animus? Perhaps there was an agenda with your OP? Sure seems like it. Why didn’t you post while the scopes were in your possession instead of waiting until afterwards when you had already decided to go another route? At any rate, your question has LONG been addressed. It is not normal for there to be any cosmetic issues with TV scopes as many have pointed out here. So enjoy your scope that you have. There are buyers of EVERY scope that have had issues. 

Because you said "QC is just fine" which I don't think is objectively true, given my experience right now in May 2020. If QC was just fine, I would be enjoying a TV-85 right now.

 

But I do agree with you: there have been buyers of EVERY scope that have had issues, this is true about every product out there. Loads of people have received FSQ-85s which were badly out of collimation.

 

Still, two damaged TV scopes in a row is very much suspect to me. I understand the occasional lemon here and there, every company has bad days, but I've rarely encountered two in a row like that, and both had very close serial numbers.


 

#117 YAOG

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:06 AM

Why are you persisting with this? Haven’t you moved on? If you’re happy why keep bashing? You weren’t satisfied...so what? Many are and will be and now you’re happy so why the continued animus? Perhaps there was an agenda with your OP? Sure seems like it. Why didn’t you post while the scopes were in your possession instead of waiting until afterwards when you had already decided to go another route? At any rate, your question has LONG been addressed. It is not normal for there to be any cosmetic issues with TV scopes as many have pointed out here. So enjoy your scope that you have. There are buyers of EVERY scope that have had issues. 

Clearly you have not moved on, which is why you continue defending TV and minimizing his recent bad TeleVue telescope purchasing experience. If more people told the truth about TeleVue being naked we and TV would not be in this place. 

 

He is not the only one who has been left with a bad taste in his mouth by a TeleVue purchase. And Uncle Al is not getting any kinder with age as his insight and eyesight gets more myopic as time passes. 


 

#118 LDW47

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:12 AM

Why are you persisting with this? Haven’t you moved on? If you’re happy why keep bashing? You weren’t satisfied...so what? Many are and will be and now you’re happy so why the continued animus? Perhaps there was an agenda with your OP? Sure seems like it. Why didn’t you post while the scopes were in your possession instead of waiting until afterwards when you had already decided to go another route? At any rate, your question has LONG been addressed. It is not normal for there to be any cosmetic issues with TV scopes as many have pointed out here. So enjoy your scope that you have. There are buyers of EVERY scope that have had issues. 

We all have our opinions, the poster is just trying to make sure what we all thought, was pounded into our heads for literally decades, a brand that was untouchable is really not and for every ones future $ it should be pointed out as many times as people want to comment ! No one said to stop buying but ........... !  Clear pointed skize !   PS:  As my old gramma used to say ‘ you can’t hide your head in the sand forever ‘ !


 

#119 LDW47

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:13 AM

Clearly you have not moved on, which is why you continue defending TV and minimizing his recent bad TeleVue telescope purchasing experience. If more people told the truth about TeleVue being naked we and TV would not be in this place. 

 

He is not the only one who has been left with a bad taste in his mouth by a TeleVue purchase. And Uncle Al is not getting any kinder with age as his insight and eyesight gets more myopic as time passes. 

Very well said ! Clear Skies !


 

#120 LDW47

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:15 AM

Because you said "QC is just fine" which I don't think is objectively true, given my experience right now in May 2020. If QC was just fine, I would be enjoying a TV-85 right now.

 

But I do agree with you: there have been buyers of EVERY scope that have had issues, this is true about every product out there. Loads of people have received FSQ-85s which were badly out of collimation.

 

Still, two damaged TV scopes in a row is very much suspect to me. I understand the occasional lemon here and there, every company has bad days, but I've rarely encountered two in a row like that, and both had very close serial numbers.

As I said ‘ its always the other guys fault ‘ to many !  Clear faulty skiys !


 

#121 LDW47

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:19 AM

I've been using Tele Vue products for 30+ years with no issues. IMO no need to end up with a different brand, QC is just fine.

 

Clear skies,

 

-Mark

You have been pretty lucky for 30+ years maybe ?? If I had a business deal, twice even that left a sour taste in my mouth I would say the same thing and make sure unwary fellow astronomers knew about it !  Clear lucky skies !


 

#122 Wildetelescope

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:43 AM

As I have been saying, TeleVue was once a great telescope company but time and the market standards have passed them by. Unless Uncle Al lets his team get back on the top quality horse and bothers to actually design some newer more highly corrected telescopes using the latest tools, materials, manufacturing methods and quality controls to bring them to the forefront of the market TeleVue will pass into obscurity as a telescope maker sooner than later. 

I hear what you are saying, but folks have been predicting the demise of Televue for as long as I have been aware of them.  The arguments put forward in this thread, and many others generally fall into two categories.  1. Televue EP's/Scopes cost WAY too much, or 2.  Televue scopes are priced like Taks and AP's but do not perform consistently at that level.  For my part, I like my TV 102.  It is a very high quality semi apo.  With Televue eyepieces, I see no color on the rim of the moon or planets other than Venus.  The mechanicals and finish are top notch.     I have no problem believing that quite a few of the Synta F9 ED's have comparable quality optics, but the few I have looked through, paired with more cost competitive EP's have not.  I purchased my 102 used for not much more than a new Synta ED scope.  If I were to upgrade the synta scope with a moonlight R and P focuser and a hard case, I would be in the same ball park as what the 102 sold for new.  On the flip side, I have never looked through a Tak fluorite Doublet, but again I would have no problem believing that the optical performance might exceed that of the 102.  

 

The great thing is that folks have both lesser and more expensive options to choose from if they want.  This certainly has the potential to put pressure on TV, and in the case of the TV102, it clearly did as they do not make them any more.  However, TV is really an eyepiece company that makes telescopes to hold them.  In that arena they clearly have been the driving force of innovation for decades.  Eyepieces are where their emphasis is.  Their smaller doublets serve the birding community as well as grab and go astronomy, providing a nice combination of performance and finish.  Their NP101 is a unique platform of which Jon Issacs has spoken more eloquently than I ever could on many occasions.   The NP127 is unique for imagers that want that wide field with more aperture, but sort of a unicorn in most respects and I doubt that its sales effect the the fate of the company.  

 

I guess my main point here is that the future of Televue revolves around their eyepieces not their telescopes.  To the OP's post, I completely get being upset regarding the QC issues with multiple scopes.  That is a shame, and something that TV will definitely have to address if it proves to be a common occurrence. Faced with the same issue, and not getting satisfactory response from the vendor, I would look elsewhere as well.

 

 A couple posts back I was challenged with providing unbiased advice for those considering a TV scope purchase.   It is the same advice I would give for any purchase.  1. Do your homework and understand what you are buying and more importantly understand how you really want to use the scope, 2. Read reviews here on CN, but tune out the passion, and look at discussions that provide context for their opinions. 3. Buy from a place that it reputable and has a history of dealing with returns  when QC issues arise, and 4. Buy what you can reasonable afford and use it as often as you can.  5. Do not waste time or effort wondering "what if" after your purchase.   There are wonderful options at all price points, so cost, lack of options, or availability should not be a barrier to enjoying the hobby.   Al Nagler(or Roland Christen, or Scott Losmandy, etc..). would be the first to tell you that.  After all, they all got started in their businesses because they were amateur astronomers first.  Something that often gets lost in these types of discussions.

 

Cheers!

 

JMD


 

#123 Wildetelescope

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 11:52 AM

Unless you're me, who just ordered two TV-85 scopes in a row and both arrived with damage from the factory.

Have lost track of things in this thread.  Did you ever call and talk to TV directly about this?  I agree, similar issues with two scopes from what is likely the same lot seems like an issue at the factory.  I would be interested in hearing what their response was as it provides further context to the discussion.    I apologize if you already shared it and I missed it.  

 

 Cheers!

 

 

JMD


 

#124 rgsalinger

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Posted 02 June 2020 - 12:28 PM

I'm locking this thread. I think that right now it's not adding any useful information to the topic of why the OP got two bad scopes. 


 


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